[LivinLOS]

I thinks theres valid points on both sides.. To respond to some of CMD's comments..

Re food riots.. I dont see these happening in the west.. I see starvation level events being a 3rd world, poor country thing while first worlders will eat but have a dramatically reduced standard of living as energy becomes more expensive.. The food miles in some items like fruits and processed foods will put them high on the cost of living.. Its only the last 30 40 years we have had such an abundance of cheap fresh globally delivered items and thats in part thanks to cheap energy.

Unsure about wind not being a feasible option.. I read a really good time article about the wind operations in Holland and IIRC denmark.. 1 wind turbine was IIRC 1/20th a power station.. In some countries wind could be viable.. Also the idea of personal homes becoming part subsidized becomes more viable as prices rise.

I saw a alternative energy guy on TV the other day.. He had made a fully energy efficient home.. It had solar power collection and used to solar to split water into hydrogen.. The hydrogen was then stored in huge tanks almost like a battery system and the houses energy was then drawn off the stored hydrogen. He had even made a fuel cell hydrogen car that ran off this system. The house and car were 100% energy independent and produced no hydrocarbon emissions at all... However the cost of this system was over 500k USD !!! However it should be pointed out he designed and built the system, if this was made off the shelf in volume it would of course cost a tiny % of that. So yes there were huge design costs, yes solar cells are currently not what they could be, but there are answers out there. Taking homes off the grid or having them use the grid only as backup systems (and in fact IIRC this home contributed to the grid its surplus) is possible. Its the fact that we have had cheap energy for so long that has made us lazy about how we use energy.

I do however agree with you that many of the touted renewables are mirages.. Nuclear energy is always subsidized by governments for other reasons and never are the full decommissioning and waste disposal costs looked at.