Breaking News: Terror alert????

[sishow]

Originally Posted by ub2yoo

Saw it this morning on Sky and almost spilled my tea ;-))

12 year old boy just walks into plane without passport & traveldocuments in London Gatwick Airport.

From what I gather from the first reports is that there was little chance of the plane actually taking off due to passenger manifest that the cabin crew check! Then there is the high probability that he took someone elses seat! That unseated person wont be allowed to stand up the whole flight are they!

[ub2yoo]

Originally Posted by sishow

From what I gather from the first reports is that there was little chance of the plane actually taking off due to passenger manifest that the cabin crew check! Then there is the high probability that he took someone elses seat! That unseated person wont be allowed to stand up the whole flight are they!

Unheard of, I never got onto a plane without showing my little boarding strip at the door.

I mean it's just surprising this happens this week.

[stevem]

It is more common than you would think. A recent incident, a Chinese lady boarded a Qantas flight in LA going to Melbourne. She was supposed to be on a Cathay flight to Hong Kong.

There are others, but cant recall the details at the moment.

And then there was the Korean flight which departed minus the cabin crew the other week and had to return to get them. Dont' ask!!!

[ub2yoo]

Originally Posted by stevem

And then there was the Korean flight which departed minus the cabin crew the other week and had to return to get them. Dont' ask!!!

Okay, I don't ask At least the pilot seemed to be on-board

[Heywood]

Such a fast moving thread...this ones got legs!

My first comment is towards those who posted about there being such a difference for people who are flying for business, you know there really is no difference other than feeling all self important by saying you have to have your precious laptop on a plane, which of coarse if complete and utter nonsense.

I think people use to actually travel for business without a laptop and life went on. Face the facts its all about what your use to doing and nothing more. We even use to walk around without an phone in our ear at all times...amazing stuff.

We as a people are so quick to let groups off the hook...we provide the excuse card..its not all Muslims...its not all blacks..its not all xyz...yet groups of people who have the greatest ability to have a influence on things sit silent and let it continue on and on.

Take the Lebanese, they allowed a group to build up arms...and essentially do nothing to stop a private army to grow...but hey its not there fault right? its not the Lebanese..its Hezbollah...we provided the excuse right out the gate...hey its not us its them.

Hold this group accountable for all there actions and non actions...if your not willing to do something about it to stop it, then your guilty same same....Think about it this way, if you know someone's going to kill someone and you just stand by and do nothing to stop it...are you not just as guilty as the guy who did the deed.

So think whatever you want... but I wouldn't be surprised to never see an end to this...it is the times we live in.

[ub2yoo]

Originally Posted by Heywood

Such a fast moving thread...this ones got legs!

My first comment is towards those who posted about there being such a difference for people who are flying for business, you know there really is no difference other than feeling all self important by saying you have to have your precious laptop on a plane, which of coarse if complete and utter nonsense.

I think people use to actually travel for business without a laptop and life went on. Face the facts its all about what your use to doing and nothing more.

Of cause up to you what you think about it. I believe if you would fly a lot you would appriciate every little bit of convinience you can get. In addition the risk, Laptop checked in - bag still at source Airport - not much work to do at Destination Happened more than once to me that the bag arrives a day or two later per courier at the Hotel.

Edited: But I try to be realistic. A solution would be to get a gig usb stick with all your data on it in your pocket. If that is allowed then at least

[MajorTom]

Originally Posted by Heywood

We as a people are so quick to let groups off the hook...we provide the excuse card..its not all Muslims...its not all blacks..its not all xyz...yet groups of people who have the greatest ability to have a influence on things sit silent and let it continue on and on.

All muslims are not terrorists..... but all terrorists are muslim.... Ok maybe we have a few other perverted groups too, but they seem to be in a TINY majority there.

[MajorTom]

Originally Posted by Alfie

As usual, the minority spoil it for the majority.
Religion... Its all about Religion...

Yes you are right there. Religion.. a really unnecessary thing.
Im afraid we dont get rid of it the first 1000 years.

[Heywood]

Originally Posted by Alfie

As usual, the minority spoil it for the majority.
Religion... Its all about Religion...

Guess that's the part I was getting at alfie...why is it the minority gets so much control over the majority...that's where I really loose sight of things...another case of the tail waggin the dog. Pitty really.

[Heywood]

Originally Posted by ub2yoo

Of cause up to you what you think about it. I believe if you would fly a lot you would appriciate every little bit of convinience you can get. In addition the risk, Laptop checked in - bag still at source Airport - not much work to do at Destination Happened more than once to me that the bag arrives a day or two later per courier at the Hotel.

Edited: But I try to be realistic. A solution would be to get a gig usb stick with all your data on it in your pocket. If that is allowed then at least

Point being was its not the end of the world, yes I have held positions that required a lot of travel and still do travel for work and I don't look forward to taking my 13hr plane rides without my electronics, heck I even make sure people that are on the go continue to be able to get to there data from all over the world, but I know the reality of life is larger than having your data with you at all times..its convient agreed, but not life support. Many ways to skin a cat.

[mars]

Originally Posted by stevem

It is more common than you would think. A recent incident, a Chinese lady boarded a Qantas flight in LA going to Melbourne. She was supposed to be on a Cathay flight to Hong!

When i went to New york & Vegas a few years ago on one of the return legs in the US there was a man who could not speak english very well sitting in someones seat and the other person turned up, after a disscussion the man was on the wrong aircraft and this was only 2 weeks after 9/11.

[focus360]

The potential bombers are arrested but alowed time to rest and eat before questioning while 10000s of passengers sit in tents for hours and hours on a freezing cold day as it rains.
The response from the muslim community is all poor 'potential bombers' and 'they might not have done it' and 'now this means that muslims are more likely to get checked at the airports'

....wel duhhh!!!! We have it all wrong!!!!!!!!!

As for if the restrictions to the airbaggage which have now been lifted. I have £5000 camera which is not inssureed in carried in the hold. However on contacting Qatar airlines they agreed to take responsibilty should it be lost/stolen.

[lostgringo]

A few years back my son and I went on a vacation by ourselves to Cuba. After settling in our rooms I found that my camera had been stolen by the baqggage handlers. I later recovered the cost of the camera through the travel agency who booked the vaction. However, since it almost impossible to by a camera in Cuba I now have no pictures of that trip.
Getting back the numbers 8 and 10 versus 9 and 11. If you put them all together 8,9,10 and 11 they appear in sequence. What is next? 6 and 7?
Just a thought.

[Mr Lucky]

The terrorists have already won. They've achieved their goal. We are terrorized. The moment the Average Family changes their travel plans, the moment the travel industry takes a big financial hit, the terrorists have won.

We are going about the 'war on terror' ass backwards. Though military action is definitely called for, the 'war' should also be fought by consumers. Governments should campaign to encourage everyone to keep travelling. When the masses cancel plans because of the risk of terrorism, the only effect is that a) economies suffer and b) would-be terrorists are encouraged that their methods work.

What did mom say about the schoolyard bullies? They're cowards. If we all ignore them, they'll back down. Terrorism is on the rise because we're letting them scare us.

We Americans like to brag about how we once fought for our independence from jolly-old-England. Yet, when citizens are again threatened by an outside power, they think it's the military's job to protect their freedom. We shouldn't forget that our freedom comes directly from our own actions. If you don't use it, you lose it.

Sure, we need to improve security, but not to the extent where business travellers are staying home because they don't want to deal with the security checks.

Personally I travel, a lot, with a laptop. I'm a journo. My laptop is absolutely necessary. I go somewhere, I feed a s**tload of info into it, which I then bring back to the office. With tight deadlines I often write at a destination or on flights, even short ones. It's true journalists used to use pen and paper, but these days we are expected to be able to send stories off from wherever we are.

I am sure the same is true for people in many many other fields. And there is no way any sane man would hand over his laptop to the whims of the airline check-in staff (who are actually gorillas from the old Samsonite commercial). Until the airlines can guarantee my laptop and all its data will be 110% safe, they won't get it "until they pry it out of my cold, dead hands".

These security measures are way over the top. More than that, they are encouraging terrorists in their methods.

[Mr Lucky]

On a less serious note:

A friend who's been in the SE Asian travel industry since Patong's biggest building was a grass hut, told me a story about the old days.

"I remember when there was this little window at the departure gate at Bangkok Airport. Can you guess what it was for? At that time safe travel meant never going upcountry without a gun. So before boarding the aircraft, passengers carrying pistols were asked to empty them and leave the bullets at the window. We'd carry our guns on board, and the ammo was returned to us on arrival."

[ub2yoo]

Originally Posted by Mr Lucky

The terrorists have already won. They've achieved their goal. We are terrorized. The moment the Average Family changes their travel plans, the moment the travel industry takes a big financial hit, the terrorists have won.

We are going about the 'war on terror' ass backwards. Though military action is definitely called for, the 'war' should also be fought by consumers. Governments should campaign to encourage everyone to keep travelling. When the masses cancel plans because of the risk of terrorism, the only effect is that a) economies suffer and b) would-be terrorists are encouraged that their methods work.

What did mom say about the schoolyard bullies? They're cowards. If we all ignore them, they'll back down. Terrorism is on the rise because we're letting them scare us.

We Americans like to brag about how we once fought for our independence from jolly-old-England. Yet, when citizens are again threatened by an outside power, they think it's the military's job to protect their freedom. We shouldn't forget that our freedom comes directly from our own actions. If you don't use it, you lose it.

Sure, we need to improve security, but not to the extent where business travellers are staying home because they don't want to deal with the security checks.

Personally I travel, a lot, with a laptop. I'm a journo. My laptop is absolutely necessary. I go somewhere, I feed a s**tload of info into it, which I then bring back to the office. With tight deadlines I often write at a destination or on flights, even short ones. It's true journalists used to use pen and paper, but these days we are expected to be able to send stories off from wherever we are.

I am sure the same is true for people in many many other fields. And there is no way any sane man would hand over his laptop to the whims of the airline check-in staff (who are actually gorillas from the old Samsonite commercial). Until the airlines can guarantee my laptop and all its data will be 110% safe, they won't get it "until they pry it out of my cold, dead hands".

These security measures are way over the top. More than that, they are encouraging terrorists in their methods.

Hi Mr. Chock dee, that's what I call a very good post (at least in my opinion) ... agree with every word you say.

Re don't give up...I'll go back to Heathrow tomorrow and try to catch the flight I had let go last week, after waiting for 5 hours.
Let's hope I will take off this time.

Good luck to you !

[swiftdave]

Originally Posted by Heywood

Take the Lebanese, they allowed a group to build up arms...and essentially do nothing to stop a private army to grow...but hey its not there fault right? its not the Lebanese..its Hezbollah...we provided the excuse right out the gate...hey its not us its them.

I think its important to draw a distinction here. Hezbollah did not blow up the World Trade Center. They are a perfect example of the fine line between terrorists and freedom fighters. They have a political arm, a military arm and a social arm. Hezbollah are the ones feeding and caring for the displaced Lebonese on the ground.

Their war is against Isreal, not as much based on ideology as the fact that they feel that Isreal is illegally occupying their lands.

So what we are looking at is a Political force, backed by their own military. A polital force supported by the people they represent. A legitimate government in every way except that the don't "own" any soil, embattled with another government using conventional forces and arms.

I do not support Isreal nor Hezbollah, but unless someone can explain to me the difference between a rocket attack on Isreal and acts such as the fire bombing of Dresden, I will continue to see this war as a battle between to warring armies, supported by their respective populations. And I will continue to see Hezbollah as a legitimate fighting force, not a terrorist organization. Maybe a fine line but I think its important.

[Coolhand]

Originally Posted by Mr Lucky

The terrorists have already won. They've achieved their goal. We are terrorized. The moment the Average Family changes their travel plans, the moment the travel industry takes a big financial hit, the terrorists have won.

I don't believe that the terrorists have won until we give up our country's right to make its own foreign policy. When the UK Government decides not to follow a certain policy because it doesn't want to upset XYZ group then they have won.

In the meantime the authorities are doing their best to maintaining a balance of securing the safety of innocent people and allowing those same people to go about their everyday business. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes not. The fact that there have not been any aircrafts been hi jacked and flown into buildings, or being blown up in mid air recently is a mark of their success.

IMHO, the fact that these people were, supposedly, trying to make bombs out of chemicals is an indication that the security people have made it very difficult to get a traditional bomb onto an aircraft.

yes it is a pain in the ar5e, but you need to learn to adapt to the new paradigm. Yes, sometimes we will lose a few of our rights due to changes in security rules, but much better that than having government policy dictated by a bunch of loonies (unless of course, you believe that the elected politicians are a bunch of loonies, as well )

[swiftdave]

Originally Posted by Coolhand

I don't believe that the terrorists have won until we give up our country's right to make its own foreign policy. When the UK Government decides not to follow a certain policy because it doesn't want to upset XYZ group then they have won.

I agree with you. The worst thing that could happen to our societies is that the crazies learn that all they have to do is blow up someone and they'll get what they want.

As hard as it is, you have to stand up to aggression. Along the same line, you can't be too surprised when they stand up to ours.

[Sirgezza]

Originally Posted by swiftdave

I agree with you. The worst thing that could happen to our societies is that the crazies learn that all they have to do is blow up someone and they'll get what they want.

The question is though, what do they want? Behind the attacks is the fact that they do not like the way of the western world e.g. capitalism.

The situation is crazy, people born and bred in the UK and who have benefitted from free education, health etc. now decide they want to destroy this way of life.

What demands have they made? - none as far as I know. Whilst there are Muslims who interprete religious doctrines as a reason to kill, there will be terrorism.