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#36
20-03-2007, 14:16
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Deaths on commercial flights happen probably far more often than you would believe.
20 to 30 years ago the average was 72 a year so imagine what it could be in this age with air travel having more than doubled since then there are probably 100 or more a year on average now. We reviewed information reported to the International Air Transport Association on in-flight deaths that occurred during commercial air travel for the eight years between 1977 and 1984. Of the 120 airlines in the International Air Transport Association, 42 carriers reported deaths during these eight years. A total of 577 in-flight deaths were recorded, for a reported average of 72 deaths per year. Deaths occurred at average rates of 0.31 per million passengers, 125 per billion passenger-kilometers, and 25.1 per million departures. The majority of those who died were men (66%, 382/577) and middle-aged (mean age, 53.8 years). Most of the individuals (77%, 399/515) reported no health problems prior to travel. Physicians aboard the aircraft offered medical assistance for 43% (247/577) of the deaths. More than half of the deaths (56%, 326/577) seemed to be related to cardiac problems. Sudden unexpected cardiac death was the cause of death in 63% (253/399) of the apparently healthy people and seems to be the major cause of death during air travel. These observations support the initiation of programs to train cabin personnel in the skills of basic cardiopulmonary resuscitation and in the use of automatic external defibrillators. 
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#37
20-03-2007, 18:51
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Anything that he disagrees with is "Bullshit Garbage"... I would waste my breath or energy asking why 
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LIFES A BIT*H THEN U MARRY 1 
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#38
21-03-2007, 02:15
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Obviously my source of info was wrong. Apologies, its twice the number I quoted and that is from 20+yrs ago 
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If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?
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#39
21-03-2007, 22:28
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how is it bullshit garbage you have a lot of people that probably fly at least twice a year discussing a pretty serious matter that would effect them if it ever happened on a flight how that could be categorized as "bullshit garbage" is beyond my comprehension!!!
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#40
22-03-2007, 02:34
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I may be wrong, but...
I seem to remember reading Stevem's "BS garbage" post, and nodding in fair agreement. I believe there was a post preceding Stevem (now deleted), by some "twat", with some suggestion, of having the flight attendant perform sexual favors, etc...upon the offended passengers. It was BS, and a garbage post!  AS I said, it's now removed. To read the thread (now), it appears that Stevem is being grumpy. I mean, out of the blue, declaring BS and garbage???  (not so)But in the context of replying to the twat's sexual fantasy post (originally in the thread)...he was right on! Pablo  Last edited by pablo : 22-03-2007 at 02:45.
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#41
22-03-2007, 02:49
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It's still there Pablo , along with the suggestion that 'off duty' airline staff sit in the cockpit (which I'm sure would violate a lot of rules). http://www.phuket-info.com/forums/306288-post32.html Quote:
Plus the previous post made it sound more like Guantanamo Bay than on an aircraft. Quote:
So , perhaps stevem's observation wasn't really off the mark.
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Member of Phuket Hash House Harriers Last edited by faultytowers : 22-03-2007 at 02:52.
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#43
22-03-2007, 03:05
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Sorry that just comes across as tongue in cheek to me.... And didnt merit the responce it got.. Quote:
Again I think these comments are quite right to be honest, Nobody should have to put up with having to sit beside a dead person for a long haul flight or any flight for that matter, That would be an absolute nightmare and it would be "Torture" and an "Extremely Unpleasent" thing to to have to injure, The fact is you cant just walk away and sit somewhere else so in essence you are trapped in a small confined space with a dead body, And personally I believe it should be the living people who's rights come first... So I dont see these comments as over the top... Anyway its not the first time he has made comments like this without an explanation.. And I am 100% sure it wont be the last!!
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LIFES A BIT*H THEN U MARRY 1
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#44
22-03-2007, 03:17
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I guess our views on 'torture' are different , and if anyone of us if unfortunate enough to be put in the same position it would be a personal choice how they dealt with the situation.
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Member of Phuket Hash House Harriers
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#45
22-03-2007, 03:24
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Quote:
Quote:
I have to agree with Pablo and Faulty. Stevem was obviously making his comment about the post that preceded his. Up until that point, nothing untoward had been written.
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If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?
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#46
22-03-2007, 03:36
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But there is different types and forms of torture, Some mental, Some physical... Personally when people get hysterical like family members and when I hear people cry, I feel the need to get away, I cannot stand it, Its the same thing with babies crying but in that situation there would be nowhere to go, That to me would be a kind of torture and even worse if I was tired and had been drinking beforehand, And needed some sleep which is very likely on a long haul flight... Exactly not all of us would react in the same manner, To tell you the thruth I am not even sure how I would react to be honest, But I can understand some of the feelings that were expressed by others, And how it could be torture for some... And still dont see where any of it should be labeled as "Bullshit Garbage" 
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LIFES A BIT*H THEN U MARRY 1
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#47
22-03-2007, 03:42
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One point that was never brought up , even in the original article , why didn't the guy who complained go and sit in the 'now' empty seat in Economy. If he was that upset/disturbed by what was going on he had a choice , yes he had paid for First Class , but he did not have to stay there.
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Member of Phuket Hash House Harriers
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#48
22-03-2007, 03:48
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Thats true... And its something I would rather do than sit there to be honest... But would they have refunded him the money?
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LIFES A BIT*H THEN U MARRY 1
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#49
22-03-2007, 03:49
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My guess is that he didn't wish to sit in the same seat a lady had just died in. It was his choice to stay in his seat, but I suppose he didn't like the alternative either.
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If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?
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#50
22-03-2007, 09:11
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I am glad Faulty picked up on the parallel I was trying to draw. When you get into psychology, what is torture for some isn't for others. For example the stuff you hear about in the iraq prisons, while not my thing, is actually sex fetish stuff for some. So they would enjoy it. But it goes against Iraqi culture, so it is torture for an iraqi. If the "bullshit" comment was directed at my post, well... If asked why I describe this situation as torture, I'll be really honest and explain why: I wrote it in a way that portrayed the situation as how it would have been for me. Faulty, I know you have a medical background so dead bodies may be more normal for you. For me it is completely unusual. I'll admit I feel weak just walking into a hospital. I nearly faint at needles. I don't watch medical tv shows. Ya, I'm a really big wussy with that stuff. In normal life I can mange my shortcomings. On a plane I have very little control. The trigger of a dead body and primal screams would have shot me way past my limit. Locked beside a corpes would have caused fight or flight. Take action or passout. (I feel kinda weak just thinking about this and typing...). Likely the screams would get me angry so I'd snap. Honestly I'm not sure what I would do, but I wouldn't stop until the situation was dealt with or I was restrained. I'd fight back because I would feel like they are attacking my mind. This isn't what is supposed to be going on. Treat me like royalty in First, not torture me. Going back to coach would make me feel like I lost more control (another issue of mine) and also more physically confined as well (another issue of mine). I'd have to fight for control and really not let them break me into submitting into this shit situation. For me, it would have been like that. In a previous life I did 200K/year like this guy. Still do some long haul stuff. As Marc said, this situation is of concern for many of us. Honestly checking on the airlines dead body handling procedure will be part of my booking from now on.
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Women with a past and men without a future grope and shuffle on the dance floor. Last edited by ATMwalking : 22-03-2007 at 09:18.
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#51
22-03-2007, 18:45
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What a BA crew member says
My Brother is cabin crew on BA, I asked him what his take on this incident was. He was not crew on this flight, but has crewed on this route many times before.
Here is what he said Hi this is not the first time I have had this conversation about this particular subject.. so here goes The crew did what they felt was best at the time. We are not permitted to put a corpse in the toilet, it is viewed as disrespectful to the deceased and the family travelling with. To be honest I agree it is not fitting, a toilet being the place where you eject effluent. The flight was completely full apart from 1st. For them to have chosen to move the body there must have been a very good reason. Imagine a flight full of Indians and work back from that. We do not know the role taken by the crew member. So to put this in terminology that you will be able to identify with. I shall paint a scenario for you... You are crew, a lady goes into cardiac arrest, you and 3 of your colleagues fight to keep her alive for more than an hour, CPR, you served her and helped her onto the plane, she was sweet but old and frail. Whilst you are there with your colleagues that you met today for the first time trying to breath life into a tired body chaos is breaking out around, people are weeping and wailing, all you want to do is keep her alive until the plane lands. You fail she dies, you are devastated, it drags up all your loss in your own life and this lady represents everyone you have ever lost, she dies. The relatives are besides themselves, and there are many of them. You feel that the safety of the other pax is not what it should be. And so with your team who are all distraught make a decision to move the body, this is not easy for you and to move a dead body is difficult. It is done she is in first now, there is only one other seat and you put a close relative, shell-shocked unable to comprehend that her mother/sister/grand mother has died in the only other seat but it is better for her than the hell hole that she has just left. Lord knows when the plane lands it is going to be full on for a while. A small irked businessman detached from his own family, cold and superior who has "paid" for a 1st class seat is upset by all this carry on. He is unable to identify with loss, or pain, only his own self-importance, after all he "paid" a lot of money for this seat, surely he doesn't have to contend with a dead darky, he paid to get away from all of that reality. He is in 1st after all! So upon a safe landing he feels that it is time to raise his concerns. He complains to a frazzled crew member about how appalling that he has been faced with all this reality when he "paid" so much to get away from it, I mean everyone knows that people don't really die, it is neat and clean and everyone makes the best possible decision. Anyway our "hero of consumer rights" happens to complain to the stewardess who spent an hour breathing life into a dying woman, who felt all her life slip away with every breath. Having composed herself enough to be able to do the breakfast service she is ill prepared for the self-centred harsh concerns of a man whose sole sense of power is to throw plastic (of the gold variety) into another persons face. So maybe her response wasn't so harsh.... for ****'s sake you tosser get over it, just for a second have a look around you and see what is really going on. This is a ****ing plane, there is nowhere to store a corpse, you may not want to know what is going on in economy, but does that mean if you only bought an economy ticket you are only entitled to be treated like a slab of meat and your relatives like inconvenient vermin. I don't know what happened on that flight, but it is strange everybody else in first class had the sense and class to know that they unfortunatley were witness to a tragic day for one family, and that they can take solace in the fact that it wasn't their own, but grateful for that fact that had it been their loved one, they would have been given all the dignity in death that was possible, apart from the petty grumblings of a small white man that is. Sorry to be blunt, but we don't know what we don't know. But I know how ****ing c****ish small white men can be when they feel they aren't as big as they should be.
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#52
22-03-2007, 19:34
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Thanks for passing this along and for your brother to take the time to email it. It was all a hypothetical, so I won't comment on the details of what he said. But I will say it is odd to blame a valued customer rather than the obvious "yep, we really screwed up. We are going to fix this so it will never happen again". But that attitude needs to come from the top. Clearly no lessons where learned. There are procedures for a crash landing. Seems that a death on board is even more likely. But no standard procedures for handling a corpse? Let glorified waitresses figure it out on the fly in a high stress situation? Pathetic and bound to fail. As long as Cathay and Singapore have this figured out, I'm alright! 
__________________
Women with a past and men without a future grope and shuffle on the dance floor.
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#53
22-03-2007, 22:00
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Its not reasonable to call the a member of the cabin crew a glorified waitress. A sure fire way to get eye drops in your drink.........that would give you the sreaming s**ts for the rest of your flight. The Cabin crew are there principally for passenger saftey. They have to undergo all kinds of training. I do agree that BA have a reputation for being expensive and rude. But in a crisis involving passenger saftey BA crew are are at the top of their game. There have been plenty of cases where the well trained and quick thinking BA crew have saved (sick) passengers lives. If these passengers had been on another airline they might not have been so lucky.
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#55
24-03-2007, 02:09
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Whether he was a 'very high paying customer' or not should make no difference.
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Member of Phuket Hash House Harriers
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