Thailand Expats - Worries about road contract? Your opinion.

Nicke · #1 25-11-2005, 18:09

I were going to buy a land plot in Patong and paid deposit for the land, which is chanote title.

However, the road to access my land is a private road and when I studied the contract, it worries me. The clausules sounds reasonable, but the grantor has the right to cancel the contract if they think we breach the rules.

I understand the clausules but it sounds very dangerous that the landlord can cancel the contract anytime.

What is your opinion? The contract is attached.

LivinLOS · #2 25-11-2005, 18:20

Never take a land plot unless unconditional, in perpetuity, access is given IMHO.. Thats not a written contract that can be disputed..

If full access is issued it is recorded on the back of your land title deed stating the number of the land plot(s) that you are allowed to cross.. Its also then recorded on his land title so that prospective purchasers of both plots know that acess is there..

Another issue with contractural agreements is the person who signs the contract then sells the plot.. Is the new owner bound by such agreement ?? Also if you wish to sell the land (or later land and house) is the purchaser entitled to inherit the contract.. All of these things are murky (even if a lawyer says they are not.. Will that lawyer stend behind his opinion in case of any financial losses ?? answer NO) unless access is unconditionally disclosed and recorded with the land office.

I know of 3 or 4 landlocked plots worth sub 1mil per rai around Patong that jump to 6 - 10 mil per rai if the land acess is given.

Then again I am a cynical distruful person when it comes to land here..

Nicke · #3 25-11-2005, 18:38

Sorry, forget to upload the contract.

No, it states that each new owner have to sign their own contract with the landlord for access to the road.

As I said, sounds very dangerous and I agree we should have unconditional access, althought we can respect the rules the landlord wish we follow.

I will let Ead talk to the owner of the private road and see if it is possible to remove the lines I marked with red in the contract.

AHappyWanderer · #4 25-11-2005, 18:46

Once access has been cut-off, there appear to be legal right (i.e. mechanism) for "restoring" access. So, one little tiny minor accidental infringement and you have lost access forever.

I would not even accept these conditions on a plot of land in my own country!

Sorry.

Dodger · #5 25-11-2005, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicke

Sorry, forget to upload the contract.

No, it states that each new owner have to sign their own contract with the landlord for access to the road.

As I said, sounds very dangerous and I agree we should have unconditional access, althought we can respect the rules the landlord wish we follow.

I will let Ead talk to the owner of the private road and see if it is possible to remove the lines I marked with red in the contract.

Agree Nicke, get Ead to have that clause removed. My advice is always if it is potentially putting you off then it will do the same to any potential buyer you have in the future. Sounds like an old clause from a personal dispute the old guy had in the past, the inheritants souldn't be in disagreement or you then know they are a chip off the old block and will enforce it at sometime.

barfly · #6 25-11-2005, 23:43

I would have thought that being jointly responsible for the upkeep of the road would give you some legal rights.

stevem · #7 26-11-2005, 03:14

SOrry Nicke, I'm with Sefton on this one. I wouldnt enter into any agreement/contract in Thailand where there was even the slightest possibility of something going against you. Have you seen a lawyer to get proper legal advice on it.

If when Ead does talk with the owner, and the clause cant be removed, then I would be extremely reluctant to put any further money into it.

barfly · #8 26-11-2005, 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevem

SOrry Nicke, I'm with Sefton on this one. I wouldnt enter into any agreement/contract in Thailand where there was even the slightest possibility of something going against you. Have you seen a lawyer to get proper legal advice on it.

If when Ead does talk with the owner, and the clause cant be removed, then I would be extremely reluctant to put any further money into it.

If the owner doesn't want the clause removed I would certainly wonder why.

Caerphilly · #9 26-11-2005, 03:32

Sounds like the current owner is trying to get himself in a position where he holds a ransom strip for all those that he sells plots off too.....i think the term randsom strip is self explanatory....or maybe in non-legal terms i've got you by the nuts and i'll squeeze if you don't meet my demands year on year

just an opinion............

Rex7777 · #10 26-11-2005, 08:31

Nicke,

You need to get an opinion from a Thai lawyer. This type of situation must come up again and again. In common law countries they have a set of rules that pertain to land covenants, easements, etc. But how does it work in Thailand?

I wouldn't sign anything without talking to a Thai lawyer.

Rex

LivinLOS · #11 26-11-2005, 16:39

Ok the contract wasnt there before..

Nicke, be very very careful... This line "In the event of change of occupant of the land by registration, then such person must make a new access agreement with the Grantor" is a total no deal for me..

You buy the land.. You build your house.. They sell thier land plot (to his cousin / brother / anyone).. You have no access.. Simple as that !! this wouldnt be the first time I have heard of this being actually planned as a screw people system (not saying these people are not genuine but thats the cold reality)..

This land access agreement will have repurcussions on the sale of the land and its value now and later.

As I stated there is a mechanism where full unconditional access is given.. it involved both this Nor Sor Sam Gor plot number and your plot number (chanote) both having details recorded on the origional documents and these details lodged with the land office, anything else is simply a no deal (unless its dirt cheap and you are fully aware of the risk)..

Speak to Khun Joy on Nanai Rd for budget advise or Aussie Brett (more expensive I am guessing) in Patong Law (on Rat U Thit up from Sai Nam yen towards paradise 300m).. Both will tell you the honest low down.

Nicke · #12 18-01-2006, 17:52

I have been talking to Anthony & Anant at mcevily & collins who have very good reputation and specialists in dealing with land. (The office on the hill between Patong and Kathu) If I proceed with the purchase I will let them take care of all paperwork and setup of a company properly for the purpose of owning the land. Highly recommended company.

I tried to explain what I want to the landowner but he didnt really understand, so today we had meeting together with the lawyer. I also found out that the road access is on two different land plots with different owners. The landowner told me it is not easy to find the owner a part of the road.

Well, I can say the landowner didnt look that happy after the meeting, as it looked too much trouble for him. I hope he will try to solve these issues but I guess he won't, as I really like the plot.

But I will not in any case proceed with the purchase without proper access.

We will se what happens...

Remark: the landowner is the guy I want to buy the land from, not the owner of the road.

LivinLOS · #13 18-01-2006, 18:05

Land with dodgy access is worth sub 1 mil per rai.. You are doing the due dilligence so no need to say it again..

Brett at the land and legal dep on Rat U Thit (between Subway and paradise) is great to deal with..

Gecko · #14 21-01-2006, 17:49

Try 'grease the hand' of the guy you are buying the plot off. It he got on well with the access owners (Osot's) then ask him to negotiate with the Osot's to try and get them to drop the clause in the contract. And if he is successful then give him an extra % of the original agreed price of the sale. Just build it into the cost of the property and forget about it.

He most likely knows the 'awkward' neighbours better than anyone and he will know the best way out of it ie-how much he would have to offer them or whatever. If he cant sort it out then I doubt anyone can IMHO.

That way everyone is a winner. You get the clause dropped, he gets an extra few bob and possibly shares that with (or gives it all to) the Osot's.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it all works out for you Nicke.

Good Luck.

HS

LivinLOS · #15 21-01-2006, 20:31

Convoluted access is so common.. half the time its genuine other times its a plan to rip off..

I had 12 rai of hillside land (of which 3 or so was over 80m) I could have got for cheap, less than 1mil per rai but then there was the land access whoich was going to cost another 7 mill for a 1200sqm plot.. even so it all made sense (the cost of the 1200sqm plot amortised over the sellable 8 rai would have made it very worthwhile) but there were some suspicious issues with land hight and ability to run the road through..