Diving jobs?

[yobbo]

Dear all,

What are the chances of a Divemaster getting a job in the Phuket area out of season/ in season?

I have several months to run on a current contract, so am not desperate, but just wanting to know what the general situation for diving jobs is...any info regarding general wages, etc would also be appreciated..


thanks for your time.

[LivinLOS]

Its another job thats paid in pretty sea shells and shiny beads..

I know mant DM's round here.. Most struggle a lot.. One I know who works freelance for a few different dive outfits gets 1000 baht a day.. Some of those are 18+ hour work days if you count early set offs etc.

Very hard finding gigs in low season but quite a lot in high season.

[nelsonone]

Pretty difficult with only Divemaster qualifications Yobbo......most will take Thai Nationals first as they pay them less and then they will have a permanent but casual list of Instructors they use............Foreign Divemaster is way down the list + is gonna starve by my estimation......

Also no liveaboards going to outer dive sites like Similans + Ricilieu etc in off season due to weather so more than half the industry is shut down...........not to mention the lack of punters compared to Xmas + Songkran etc.........

day dives fall off tremendously too and most companies end up sharing just a few boats...........

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.....but if you know someone and can get on their list you may get the odd day here and there.............but as LiL says be prepared for some pretty shells.........it won't cover even very inexpensive accommodation IMHO...........

[yobbo]

thanks for the feedback fellas,

i also plan to do IDC up to OW instructor level later this year, i figure this gives you an edge in the job stakes?

To change track slightly, What are the prospects for an OWI in peak season?

[nelsonone]

Originally Posted by yobbo

thanks for the feedback fellas,

i also plan to do IDC up to OW instructor level later this year, i figure this gives you an edge in the job stakes?

To change track slightly, What are the prospects for an OWI in peak season?

Chances are better for both the season and the higher quals Yobbo........but you still neded to be there and hunt around until one of the companies or some of the companies give you some steady work..........they are very unlikely to offer you anything by email.........you gota be on the ground and settled before you will even be considered.......probably need to do a few dives out of your own pocket as well to introduce yourself......

[LivinLOS]

And your still going to make hardly enough to eat..

As I said one of my mates is a qualified experienced diver who knows all the companies here and is a known freelancer on the island for years.. He gets 1000 baht a day, only on days he works.. Starts before dawn.. Gets home well after midnight (so you needs break days to recover between gigs).. Also he has to provide all his own kit (which wears out, he got a wetsuit nicked recently so lost money on a few days work) also drives up to jumping off points (Khao Lak) on his own petrol. etc.

Basically its a hobby that gives him free diving and some occasional pocket money.. He has some rental apartments back home keeping him going, the reality is that diving has too many people who want to do it and if they need staff they can have a Thai with paperwork for 15k - 20k.

As a jobbing diver you can expect free diving and not much more IMHO.

[ElectrO]

I can say the opposite to this as my friend from Holland, he got a job straight away and is on a set wage of 35k baht a month. If he dives or not. He works in one of the 2 shops they have in Patong.

So I think it depends on who you see or where you go. People are always different. So his basic wage is 35k a month and he sells pictures and videos he makes underwater for 1k baht per cd to his customers.

He sells over 20 cds a month which is a very nice extra income!

[LivinLOS]

OK well thats still pocket money (in salary) rather than a livable wage IMHO.. Then theres his tax issues ?? Then theres the fact he is not making min wage.. Theres also the question on if he will have work in the next month as the high season has now ground down.. In the Dec - March period is when divers can make a bit and get by..

I know perhaps 10 divers round town.. Every single one of them is penny pinching and just making ends meet, if that.. Usually diving is just one of the things they do for money.. One of my good budddies just had to pack up, leave his GF, and head back to UK after working the high season.. He was gutted to leave his LT GF but no money to stay and no work to even keep him here on the poverty line.

[nelsonone]

Originally Posted by ElectrO

I can say the opposite to this as my friend from Holland, he got a job straight away and is on a set wage of 35k baht a month. If he dives or not. He works in one of the 2 shops they have in Patong.

So I think it depends on who you see or where you go. People are always different. So his basic wage is 35k a month and he sells pictures and videos he makes underwater for 1k baht per cd to his customers.

He sells over 20 cds a month which is a very nice extra income!

He is one of the extremely lucky ones then Elecro.........he might be paid that over high season but no dive shops could afford to keep him over low season unless he is bringing in his own o/s clients on a regular basis.......

BTW there are probably 20 or more dive shops in Patong alone.........let alone kata/Karon where the main diving businesses are located........but hardly any of them have full time farang divemasters on their books........as LiL said almost everyone is paid on a work per day basis only.........and these days are usually very scattered........even in high season...... to almost non existant in low season.......

Sorry Yobbo.........just don't want to paint a rosy picture and have you bitterly disappointed......better just to say it how it is.........

Of course things can be diferent if you have a good friend well entrenched or an owner here..........but I haven't heard that from you as yet..........

[yobbo]

I appreciate your honesty, that's all i'm after....a friend of mine has offered me to buy his diving business in Phuket, which would be a good hobby. I'm relatively new to the scene and want to do my homework first, not in any hurry, i still enjoy diving in Phuket for fun, it would be good just to cover your costs!

Working in diving is something i contemplate as a 'sea change', not a career option, i intend to have all my investments and income streams already sorted if i decided to take a year or two off and just dive..

I live and work in Asia and am under no illusions about life/business here, but nevertheless appreciate your feedabck, thanks..

[J.C.]

I was working as a DM in a reputeable Dive Shop here in Patong. I first made contact to them as a customer about 4 months before. Later I decided to do my DM course there and things clicked. I was offered jobs in other shops too (I speak fluent english, german, swedish and finnish) but the catch with a good salary is that they will NOT provide you a work permit.

I had offers in the region of 30-40k but I would have had to provide my own WP. All the shops seemed to know someone who could fix this and the fees for setting up your own company in order to obtain the WP varied quite a bit from 7000 to 35.000bt. My conclusion after shopping around and listening to offers was that a lot of shops cash in on the WP setup also. Mind you that there will be monthly running costs too which can top 10.000bt if you're unlucky (got screwed).

So I decided to go with "my" shop with 15.000bt per month but WP supplied, fair and square. Started off with daytrips and a typical day was 8am at warehouse and 7-9pm back at the office. 6 days a week.

This particular company was running Liveaboards to similans and I soon found myself on them. Typical day is up by 7am, first dive at 8am and last one around 7pm. After dinner at apprx 8pm you had the little spare time there was. Basically it meant crashing in since 4 dives a day do take a toll on you on constant basis.

I got soon promoted to tourleader and an initial raise to 20k /mo. I much prefer diving in similans but as much I did like it, the workload was just simply too much for me, especially for peanuts.

I was told by many in the business that I should consider myself lucky being a fresh DM with mere 70 dives and immediately landing a steady job (I live here) but I wasn't cut out for it.

If you have been following the local news, you might have noticed that there is something of a witchhunt bearing down on the industry and I would strongly recommend NOT to work without WP. Immigration guys are frequently seen at Chalong pier with their cameras.

The thing I had going for me were the languages I speak and that will help you to land a job if you master some of the most sought after here.

The problem here in Phuket with daytrips IMHO, beyond the fact that there's not much to see, is that the logistics of getting from the customer pickup to the divesites takes forever (min 2.5hrs). This makes the days really long and leaves you little or no private life. I've been diving at locations where you can easily make 3 dives per day and be back by 2.30-3pm. That is a huge difference.

Another major drawback here is that in high season this island is teeming with OW's, MSDT's and higher level PADI instructors with a lot of experience and they all are dying to work for free just to be able to dive for free. Trying to compete against them as a DM is an uphill battle and this constant influx of high-season instructors is certainly a factor why the salaries suck.

I certainly understand the position of the dive operators - why pay more if so many are willing to work for free. This also often results in a less favorable attitude from the shops towards employees since there's always someone just dying to take your job.

The 35.000bt you mentioned is btw the minimum salary set by thai law to most western nationalities. I was also officially paid and taxed accordingly but recieved no more than 20k. I was told by many this is common practice here.

These are my experiences in the branch and I have decided not to work, atleast not in diving business here anymore. Sure I'd love to go diving sometimes for free but for me it was not worth the workload and dismissive attitude.

In any case, just as many others said, you will be struggling to make ends meet. You can live with 20k here but it's not fun anymore.

IMHO diving in Philippines is so much better and accessible compared to Phuket. Boracay is not a bad place for that at all.

J.C.

[nelsonone]

Great post JC.....and you are a very welcome new member to the board

Thanks for sharing your experience in the Phuket dive scene here ...........it is a valuable one!!!!...and great to get it firsthand from someone in the industry

I am a divemaster myself but wouldn't dream of trying to make a living out of it in Phuket.........it's way too tough for me!!!......plus I prefer to just dive for pleasure out there and don't ever let on that I am a divemaster as the thai DMs will rely on you even though it is their job and you are a paying diver!!!

I imagine with 4 languages you would have been popular......but if a guy with these quals finds it hard......it should be a lesson to all wannabe dive industry workers...........it aint easy!!!!!

[urtheman]

I agree GREAT POST I'm just an open water padi cert guy so it's interesting to hear from someone who was in the biz.

Keep posting.

[seafox]

what JC posted has always been a major problem for people in the dive industry. 18 year old kids can go from newly certified diver to instructor in 3 months and then get a job that pays them peanuts and not worry about it because it is more money than they have ever had before and as long as they are debt free and don't mind living in a house with lots of other people they can hack it. They do all of the grunt work and get on the job training and then after a while start to take on some responsibility while still working for peanuts.

JC had a lot going for him on one side with all his language skills but did not have enough experience as a diver to make it yet because as he said they did not pay him enough. You need to have more than just basic dive skills to survive. Doing video or underwater photo, teaching Nitrox and rebreather classes, advanced cave, cavern or wreck diving skills, something like that to make extra money.

And on top of that JC had to compete with people who would work for free. And the industry in LOS obviously expects to rely on these seasonal instructors heavily. And diving in Thailand is not cheap.

Very hard to find a dive shop that appreciates your skills and experience and pays you accordingly when they can hire two 18 year old kids for the same salary as they will pay you or maybe can even find someone who can work for free.

[dogblower]

I hear what you're saying Seafox, but as an ex dive shop owner in Patong I can tell you that I hated employing "kids" and was certainly not interested in anyone with less than a couple of hundred dives. I was also highly suspicious of anyone wanting to work for free. I worked in the industry a long time and I'm fcuked if I'd do it for free.

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by dogblower

I was also highly suspicious of anyone wanting to work for free. I worked in the industry a long time and I'm fcuked if I'd do it for free.

Man I wish my shop shared your point of view. Don't get me wrong though, the people who worked there for free were really nice people but nevertheless they were definitely not doing me a favor.

Originally Posted by seafox

And on top of that JC had to compete with people who would work for free. And the industry in LOS obviously expects to rely on these seasonal instructors heavily.

IMHO this is very much so. Even just this one shop had about 10 regulars coming every high season, in addition to the local freelancers. All very nice people but in the end they are not doing anyone a favor.

I had other things going for me too - I can repair engines, transmissions, learned to repair compressors and regulators etc. I've been boating all my life, can navigate etc. I just had little or no experience about diving but logged a good 140 dives in apprx 4 months. I've been running my own business for more than 15 yrs too so small business management is nothing new either.

That's still just mere 210 dives which is next to nothing compared to pros but there were bigger plans for the future. In the end it was just simply the arrogancy of not having to deal with any issues since everyone is so easily replaceable. "People are coming through that door every day just dying to get your job"

Now I don't need any job so bad to put up with that attitude so I quit. I could still have hacked the fatigue due to long hours but I need to be respected for my work too.

I noticed that a lot of instructors are also somewhat alcoholics. Turning up at work still drunk in the morning was no exception so I figure that many long-timers accept the situation simply because they don't have much choice. I don't just mean one shop, on daytrips you saw staff from a lot of shops.

These are just my speculations and I don't claim to carry any sort of creditability after such a short time in the industry but nevertheless I wanted to share my observations.

One influental factor in deciding to ditch the dive profession was a discussion I had with a very well known Course Director. The way he was still treated and his income level made me realise that diving would never be a profession that would support me.

Running a dive shop might be but I seriously doubt it's profitability here in Phuket, especially under the new, tight scrutiny.