Possible reason for visa crackdown... (serious version) ?

[bigsquat]

I was about to try to hijack the thread in the General section, but I realized this question is pretty much directed at the expats anyhow...

I am in the process of saving up a little chunk of money that I have calculated will allow me to stay in thailand in relative style for a couple years or so. I had planned to head there early next year. I've only made a couple trips to thailand so far, once for 6 weeks and the last for only 3, but I am an experienced traveller in my own right, so i understand the need for fluidity while on the road. If things didn't work out I won't be committed to staying in LOS- "the world is my oyster" (though I may not get 2 years in say, Japan).

Anyhow, I am working on the assumption that at least some of this is chest-beating for the election, and by next year I may be able to work out new options for staying long term. What concerns me is not so much whether or not I'm going to be able to stay legally, but the motivation behind these changes.

Even if this is just political posturing for an election, that would imply to me that the majority of Thais don't want us there. I guess TRT really is a xenophobic platform? Someone in another thread made the point that coming from UK/US or other "melting pot" countries, we have a much different perspective on diversity than the Thais (or most other "pure race?" countries).

Is this the feeling you get after staying in LOS long term? If so, why do you continue to stay? Is it because there IS a significant minority that do like us there? Inertia? My initial emotional reaction to these new regulations is "F that- I'm not gonna bring my money and positive energy there if I am really that unliked".

Is it time to begin "infiltrating" Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, or some other SE Asian country until we yet again reach that critical breaking point of "too many farang"?

[urtheman]

According to our local paper here and what I think is the reason is thay are trying to stop Farangs working in Thailand illegally, without work permits.
Many do the 30 day visa thing but earn money here and many might not pay taxes on money earned as well, not just Phuket but the whole of Thailand.

The recent crackdown on our dive industry is also because many operate here as working in the industry yet don't have the proper work permit or the company (which operate on very tight margins) does not pay the taxes required.

This is my take on it other people might see something else, however I know many expats that do work without work permits which means they run a business in Thailand yet they don't pay the taxes that come with owning a business.

Just my view

[brit]

I think as with any other country people form nationalisitc or bigoted opinions without a personal involvement in whatever it is that's bothering them. Some old whisky-drunk guy in issan who's never even seen a farang may BS to his friends about all these no good farang coming here, meanwhile his daughter working in bangkok is falling in love with you and praying to buddha for bringing you to her. You just have to judge things on your personal relationships with people and the things that directly affect your life.

Same same with USA really and all the Bush voters - people could draw a similar conclusion that gays, muslims, women having an abortion, etc are completely unwelcome and disliked.

[bigsquat]

Originally Posted by brit

I think as with any other country people form nationalisitc or bigoted opinions without a personal involvement in whatever it is that's bothering them. Some old whisky-drunk guy in issan who's never even seen a farang may BS to his friends about all these no good farang coming here, meanwhile his daughter working in bangkok is falling in love with you and praying to buddha for bringing you to her. You just have to judge things on your personal relationships with people and the things that directly affect your life.

Same same with USA really and all the Bush voters - people could draw a similar conclusion that gays, muslims, women having an abortion, etc are completely unwelcome and disliked.

Good point about dubyah- but, except for the multicultural/metropolitan hotspots, unfortunately that conclusion would be correct. If I was a enterprenereaul(sp?) person of Middle-Eastern descent, I definitely wouldn't move to Texas, or anywhere except a big city or coastal California. I'm not from San Francisco, I moved here because my hometown was far too conservative for me.

Also- I agree that it's all about your immediate reality and the people within that sphere... I guess TRT is attempting to appeal to the Thai equivalent of the US midwest. Thanks for the reminder.

So gotta stick to Patong, Patts, Samui, and BKK, na?

[LivinLOS]

Well my feeling is like this..

One on one Thais are easy going, on the surface welcoming, pleasant to you.. But collectively or perhaps subconciously the xonophobic attitudes come over and it would seem that this Thais love Thais.. Thailand is for Thais.. Attitude manifest itself much more as you go up the power chain into people in positions of governance. I also think that the advantages for women of liking farangs (we are percieved rightly or wrongly as being better husbands, not only through financially but Thai guys still live a very the man rules, I can go get drunk and ***** around, the wife does what I say, not going to do shit to take care of kids type of culture) is double edged.. On one hand it means that Thai women especially those form lower or low midlle class backgrounds will be interested in you but is this building a further growing resentment in Thai men ??

I also feel that we are more tolerated than truly welcomed but the Thais have a culture of smiling, being superficially welcoming that in simple interactions makes you feel welcome. Remember as Thais they are taught to be concious of class totally from birth, how they address each other in every sentance, how they wai and greet each other, every interaction. This is based mostly but not purely on finance (eg monks are highest of the high no matter how poor but also a poor but respectable poo yai baan is going to have more respect than a local mildly successful businessman but probably fail against a merc driving 'figure of influence').. But as farangs we are kind of exempted, we are expected to not know how to identify who is low-so and who is hi-so properly, we are assumed to all have major money, we chose to go around with dark skinned, issan flat nosed girls, we blow thier class conevntions to the wind.

So by doing so we are breaking the order of thier society in a way, we are allowing dirt poor issanites to have some money and not be abused by the ruling elite as slave value labor.. We are educating thier kids better than Thai school systems do. We are creating industries and providing for those industroies in ways Thais minds dont seem readily able to service which creates jealousy.

Theres another (conspiracy) theory.. This country is controlled inside out by the Chinese Thais.. Ethnic Thais are the poor Thais.. Chinese Thais run the banks, the gold shops, the tourist resorts, The media (look at the girls on Thai TV, thats not average Thais, thats Chinese), white skin products, media has made Chinese beauty what is 'beautiful'.. Basically the TC's have the country sewn up and under thier thumb. They came here 200 years ago, and they are smarter, they are hardworking and industrious, they think long term, they educate thier kids, they are a success story. They are the power elites.

Now we as farangs come along. We find thier country to out liking, we start to make inroads, build our business, we are the new immigrants, we have money, we have eduaction, many have euntrprenurial flair and can use western customer service ideas to improve on things. Well perhaps they dont want to competition. Perhaps they see us as a threat. Again educating ethnic Thais, giving jobs to people not based on the shade of thier skin or thier status but on how they do the job, letting money flow into the rural areas, perhaps even opening thier eyes to the world a little more. Theres a big difference between the ruling TC elites whose ability to travel and whose kids get educated in western schools and the ethnic Thais who do menail work and will not break thier social bonds. Farangs are destablizing that system, we dont accept that class is a reson to keep people down.

So old squarehead (another TC) and his boys can see that maybe these sneaky farang immigrants will destablize the class structures that have him and his sitting pretty on top the pile ??

Are the rules a direct result of discussions or thoughts like this ? Secret back room meetings ?? I doubt that.. But the cause and effect that I have stated above seems to obvious to not have some basis in reality.

You cannoty deny there is anti farang sentiment and also that it is semi pushed onto rural Thais who are in the main ignorant of us.. Look at the TV soaps, any time you get a farang character on there the mood music changes switch to 'ominous' and hes always the baddie, like arab guys on the A team or black guys on the Dukes of Hazard its reinfoced stereotyping at its most painfully obvious. But then at a grass roots level when a guy moves upcountry to live a simple life with his tilak and he takes care of his kid, maybe teaches english at a school, or basically acts like a good guy in the community, it creates a much stronger effect. An effect that works from the grass roots up and is more powerful.

So is there racism ?? Sure but what do you do ?? You simply rise above it, not get annoyed by it, act mature and be the bigger man, (after all the rural ignorant rice farmer whose never been further than his local city is the one with the limited life experiences isnt he).. Its not like they are lynching us or even being overtly nasty to us, its about whats in thier heads and that can be changed by positive interactions.

[Hobbsy]

nice post LiL, was thinking along similar lines but its too early for me to type anything that cohesive!

[LivinLOS]

Ohh and why do I stay ??

Because the climate is good (though humid), cost of living is cheap, the food is appealing, simple pleasures like the beach or sailing are readily available to me, The infrastructure here on Phuket allows for (sometimes) fast internet, UBC with a lot of English channels, imported coffee beans, global supplies and services but with a total cost of living I can handle.

Add in that there is a fun nightlife, a pretty good fun bunch of expats (if you can keep your drinking under control), an yes a never ending stream of pretty women that want to be with you long or short term.

So you can have the good bits and minimize ther bad bits pretty simply, many guys I know live here cheaply on a diet of english breakfasts and pie and chips and whose interaction with Thais is ordering a new beer, complaining about thier young pretty girlfriend or haggling a *******. They stick to thier expat bars, with thier expat mates. So what if they are not 'respected' ?? They enjoy the life they are living. They dont need to 'integrate' much and many dont feel the desire to.

[jojo78]

excellent post there as always Livinlos.

I think you are right about the ruling elite breeding xenophobia to preserve the status quo.

I would like to add that the notion of "Thai-ness" didnt exist even a century ago. Its a political invention that all Thais are indoctrinated with in school and in the media. Someone needs to point out that the real foreigners taking over Thailand are the Thai-Chinese - talk about hippocracy.

(and before anyone decides to flame me for Thai-Chinese bashing, I am half Thai-Chinese myself).

[syeatman]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

So you can have the good bits and minimize ther bad bits pretty simply, many guys I know live here cheaply on a diet of english breakfasts and pie and chips and whose interaction with Thais is ordering a new beer, complaining about thier young pretty girlfriend or haggling a *******. They stick to thier expat bars, with thier expat mates. So what if they are not 'respected' ?? They enjoy the life they are living. They dont need to 'integrate' much and many dont feel the desire to.

Is that not the root of the problem? Expats living here expecting to have a little slice of the West imported to Thailand, and living in their western communities not attempting to integrate in any way?

My issues back in UK with immigration are almost exclusively with communities living together in large communities and not being willing to integrate in any way. They open their own shops for their own people, buy houses next door to each other, expect to only speak their own language, (and therefore expect all our schools to teach their language, which alot do) and generally stick to themselves.

I am (possibly was) proud of our immigration policy. Back in the 70's we were there for the Indians being kicked out of Uganda. My ex-gf back in UK was Indian and her whole family came through Uganda/Kenya, my best mate was Indian, and his family had roots in Africa too. I have no problem with their families coming here as they integrated, built up businesses for themselves and worked for the whole community not just their own. As far as I can see today, it is going in exactly the opposite direction, people are going back to sticking to their own communities and that can only be bad. It's almost as if they are numerous enough now to say we'll do what we want, they know they won't ever be kicked out so we'll do what we want thanks. London seems to be more divided now than it was in the recent past and as far as I can see is in danger of being overrun with immigrants, if not already.

Switch back to Phuket and is it so far removed from the above? Gated communities, Laguna and the expansion into Layan, with what looks like more exclusively western communities. Would I be happy if I was a Thai living here seeing this expansion, probably not. Would I be happy to see people living here not integrating in any way, making no effort to learn the language, going with numerous Thai girls and treating the place like our own? I probably wouldn't, but then i am not Thai so cannot really answer that question with any conviction.

I am aware of the sentiments Lil expressed above, the anti-western feeling and the feeling of being tolerated more than being welcome. I don't necessarily think it is entirely out of place either as ultimately it is their country and they set the rules. I doubt that there would be many objections in UK if our govt said enough is enough and curbed immigration or at least put some more controls on benefits that immigrants receive. But then we wouldn't do that as we are far too accommodating.

[LivinLOS]

Semi agree.. But the very last line is a large part of the issue..

You say immigrants could / should have the benefits they recieve curbed.. Thats an essential difference.. Immigrants into the west are coming there not as super rich retirees (and I still dont believe that any multi millionaire has the door closed on him to any country.. Whats different about that with rich westerners coming here) but as people with no money, wanting to 'take jobs' that locals would do, get free medicare, use libraries they didnt pay for, use schools they havent contributed into, even to the extent of roads and services like postal systems which have been build from the taxes of locals. In that instance I can of course see why locals can resent that.

However that really doesnt compare in any way to westeners locating to poor countries. We PAY for our medical care (and in doing so provide the best hospital on the island that has its doors open to anyone that can afford it.. Net benefit to any rich locals).. We PAY for our childrens education, creating the best schools in the province that allows any child who also pays to go there on exact equal footing..

We also start businesses and industries that are nieches.. The sailing community and multi marinas is here 100% because farangs have built those services up for other farangs, yet they are training thais (not based on skin color or nose width) real skills that lead to a carear.. Chinese Thais own resorts and employ maids at min wage, as soon as the tsunami came as these low wage earners are poorly trained and replaceable they simply sent them packing.. Where the farang based industries had to keep paying its staff as they had more invested into thier training. Go and ask the girls who work at Yacht Haven who has trained them to international Yachtmaster status (and given them a skill that can be marketed worldwide) or the dive companies that have invested in teaching Thai divemasters giving them a skill for life who takes better care of thais.

I would argue that no one treats poor Thais worse than the rich Thais !!

Also back to the 'enclave' mentality.. I personally see no problem with super rich immigrants coming into and area and providing massive net gain to the local economy, keeping to themsleves, living without disturbing the locals.. You can argue that they are buying up all the land.. To that I would say who is selling it to them ?? Who is getting 10x or even 100x more for his land in that enclave over some outside the farang areas ?? Thais are the ones reaping that windfall.

So I dont see any real issue with that in itself in the same as I wouldnt have a problem if billionire russians started building palaces in the forest of dean.. Keep to themselves, pay the bills, pay the taxes, employ the locals.. Perfect.. they can go to thier rusiian club and drink vodka.. Fair play to them. If they wanted to build the best hospital in England there and the best school in England and let anyone who could afford to go it it even more respect, hats off to them.

What I do see a problem with is the 'chav scum' element.. And as thailand caters to a ever greater tourist market and as air travel gets cheaper and the services to those class of tourist improves it may get worse. However I see nothing in the Thai visa regs thats going to help stop these people. It seems to target the totally wrong group and throws the baby out with the bathwater.

[LivinLOS]

Sorry should have added.. I dont totally dissagree with you.. I certainly see and conceed your point.. Just playing 'pro' to your 'con'..

However in the balance I guess I simply fail to agree that the western influx has not been a massive massive net boon to Thailand.. Look at a tourist or farang popular province with one that doesnt have tourists.. Compare a Lanta with a Phuket.. One is dirt roads, unreliable water, real poverty, no hospital, etc.. The other is built up with far more prosperious locals, high land values, work paid higher than national average, ameinities, etc, and many more people rapidly flooding the region looking to make money from the farang visitors.

[syeatman]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Semi agree.. But the very last line is a large part of the issue..

You say immigrants could / should have the benefits they recieve curbed.. Thats an essential difference.. Immigrants into the west are coming there not as super rich retirees (and I still dont believe that any multi millionaire has the door closed on him to any country.. Whats different about that with rich westerners coming here) but as people with no money, wanting to 'take jobs' that locals would do, get free medicare, use libraries they didnt pay for, use schools they havent contributed into, even to the extent of roads and services like postal systems which have been build from the taxes of locals. In that instance I can of course see why locals can resent that.

However that really doesnt compare in any way to westeners locating to poor countries. We PAY for our medical care (and in doing so provide the best hospital on the island that has its doors open to anyone that can afford it.. Net benefit to any rich locals).. We PAY for our childrens education, creating the best schools in the province that allows any child who also pays to go there on exact equal footing..

I totally agree that westerners coming to Thailand are no burden on any part of the economy, and if I was to expand what I posted I would have gone down that route. But is that not a choice that we make coming here, it is part of the equation from the outset, we know what we are walking in to and are happy to go along with it, because we perceive the benefits we receive to be worthwhile, as you say the 'tropical living' aspect to life here and the relative cheapness it comes at. But who is to say that we should come here and setup our exclusive communities, and be tolerated when we do (though we are allowed to do so). Yes we contribute massive amounts to the community, but it is certainly no right, and we probably should not complain if the carpet is pulled, as we made the choice to come to a relatively undeveloped country where no rule is set in stone, and we have no rights. Devils advocate there, not really my feelings, but I cannot disagree with that point of view.

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Also back to the 'enclave' mentality.. I personally see no problem with super rich immigrants coming into and area and providing massive net gain to the local economy, keeping to themsleves, living without disturbing the locals.. You can argue that they are buying up all the land.. To that I would say who is selling it to them ?? Who is getting 10x or even 100x more for his land in that enclave over some outside the farang areas ?? Thais are the ones reaping that windfall.

So I dont see any real issue with that in itself in the same as I wouldnt have a problem if billionire russians started building palaces in the forest of dean.. Keep to themselves, pay the bills, pay the taxes, employ the locals.. Perfect.. they can go to thier rusiian club and drink vodka.. Fair play to them. If they wanted to build the best hospital in England there and the best school in England and let anyone who could afford to go it it even more respect, hats off to them.

But do you agree there needs to be a line drawn somewhere? Where does the expansion stop? Phuket is not such a big place and can only accommodate so many of these enclaves before they all start bleeding in to each other. The east coast expansion looks like it has started, which I don't think is a good thing. Driving up to Nai Thon through Laguna and Layan and seeing 3, 4 or 5 new big developments going up was quite depressing. It's a relatively untouched part of the island just out side of national park areas and looks like it's being gobbled up, probably to be inhabited by people who spend 2 or 3 weeks a year in their villa/apartment. And what about the new development going up inside sirinat?!? so much for the national park. Just think that there needs to be a bigger plan, otherwise there will be a circle of farangs at the coast with all the locals living in the middle.

I am pretty much on the fence with all of this. I can completely understand yours and other opinions on the subject, and do not disagree with any of them. Maybe my opinion, and the relative amount of sympathy I have for the thai's, has formed around the feeling that my country should have done something similar a long time ago before it was too late.

[syeatman]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Sorry should have added.. I dont totally dissagree with you.. I certainly see and conceed your point.. Just playing 'pro' to your 'con'..

Same here.

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

However in the balance I guess I simply fail to agree that the western influx has not been a massive massive net boon to Thailand.. Look at a tourist or farang popular province with one that doesnt have tourists.. Compare a Lanta with a Phuket.. One is dirt roads, unreliable water, real poverty, no hospital, etc.. The other is built up with far more prosperious locals, high land values, work paid higher than national average, ameinities, etc, and many more people rapidly flooding the region looking to make money from the farang visitors.

I think they are stuck in the middle, they don't really want us here, but can't really do without us either now. Too big a part of their economy relies on the tourist dollar. Losing that would put them at such a disadvantage to their regional neighbours that they may not recover for a while, especially now they have decided to play around with the foreign owned stores developments. Does not exactly encourage investment does it?

Really makes you wonder why they are drawing aline in the sand now?!? (other than possibly the election)

[LivinLOS]

Its nice to discuss this with you as you seem to discuss things in a similar way to me.. I have points that I use to emphasise things but sometimes I am merely giving an opposite view to an suggestion.

As I said earlier.. I readily conceed that you do have a point in the enclave issue and its certainly a subject that deserves considering and addressing.. I do think however that with any problems there are positive ways of trying to solve this and negative ways.. Some methods will have a greater net good than others..

One thing that stands out and I am in total agreement with is the issue of rapid development. Phuket is undergoing such a pace of change perhaps the very thing that has drawn many people here will be destroyed. Yet who is argueing for land reform ?? Who is asking for developmental controls ?? Who is argueing for preservation and land zoning ?? Who has created new standards in defining land plots and getting all of Phuket 'chanoted' with unambigious ownership ?? These are topics I hear farangs (and possibly developers who have a vested interest) discussing a lot.. This is not a subject I see the Thais approaching with any conviction.. Why not ?? Again I see this as an area where farang advice and farang systems of zoning will be a positive thing to Phuket. This is a subject I see farangs (such as yourself) recognising.. Sadly I see Thais treating the beach like a garbage dump.. I see Thais with nearly no concept of creating a better environment around themselves. Phuket has the ability to attain a Hawaii like level of clean controlled development but without radical restructure and controls they will probably make another 3rd world development boom and bust cycle which leaves mansions next to pig farms and garbage dumped near view points.

Another issue you raise is the fact that farangs are buying up the 'good bits' again I say who is selling the good bits ?? Also there is luckily lots of undeveloped rural Thailand.. Lots and lots !! So much so that vast tracks are not even farmed (historically Thailand has always had more land than people.. Hence why they have imported migrants to work the rice farms).. And long attractive coastlines almost empty.. So that Somchai who sells some rural farmland with no electric or water for a vast sum of 4 mil per rai.. Can move easily into a new area of equal natural beauty that also has no electric or water and buy it for a few 100k baht per rai and make himself and his family relatively wealthy in the process.. Of course that region may not have the services that the 'farang developed' region may have but lets face it, it didnt have those services before the farangs got there and it would have been put there without the money provided by the farangs.. Look at rural Thailand and look at the pace of development ?!?! Look at the villiages strung out to Khao Lak.. Without Tourism and development what do they have economically ?? Subsistance fishing and rice growing.. Perhaps a shrimp farm (without farang based purchasing who would they sell to and at what profit).. Is this level of poverty what we should be trying to preserve ?? Yes, of course there are drawbacks to large wealth being deposited in a small area.. However I would say that the benefits of large wealth being put into an economy usually far far outweight the negatives and I think most poor people would agree.

Also I have to say that I think the pattern of people having the ability to move to cheaper developing nations, the fact that air travel and communications have made keeping in contact with families easy.. The fact that thanks to the internet I can video talk with my mother and litterally fly to where she is in the UK faster than she can drive to her parents home in Scotland is an unstoppable trend.. I think this will create ever larger communites of people from richer contries chosing to leave the rat race and find a place to take things easy and live a less material and cheaper life. As I see that as a trend as unstoppable as increasing information and education options etc then is enclaving those people the best or worst option ?? Maybe keeping them and thier wierd ideas (topless women on the beach, etc etc etc) in one small location is better for retaining Thai society and Thai social values over all.. I mean should there be a Bangla Rd in every town ?? If we spread the farangs out enough its soemthing to think about.. Are they better off containing our expansion or speading us thinner to control us.. Either way the hordes of tourists seem to be coming.. More and more every year.. If you take that tourist dollar (and they sure love doing that) then its the rough with the smooth unfortunately.

These exact same influences and pressures seem to be happening all over the world.. Mexico / Nicaragua / Costa Rica / Brazil / PI / Cambo / Etc.. Places all within this poorer tropical belts are getting both the advantages and drawbacks of this wealth transfer.

[B C]

It seems like there are a lot of areas in say, the US of A, where a certain nationality 'runs' a certain part of a town... For example, there are China Towns in many big cities. I'm sure there are some racists who don't like it, but all in all I think things go well for them and for 'outsiders/locals' who visit their little piece of China in the middle of the US.

Having a political party based on racism - Thai Love Thai - certainly doesn't help matters. Me thinks that Thaksin sees the risk of having competition if us bread eaters are given a chance to play on a level field... innit.

I've been here almost 14 years and things have certainly changed, and not much for the better. The general attitude towards foreigners has festered a bit, but then again, that's in Phuket where dumb, drunk foreigners make us all look bad. We're not all skirt-chasin' drunks are we??

[urtheman]

I agree with you Livinlos on almost all points you brought up. However take a look at Asia and the possible other places to live or the acts of nationality that happen there and Thailand in comparison dosen't seem so bad.
Korea, Japan, Phillipines, all very much against the farang in terms of acceptance with the Phillipines not very safe either.
Then you have Burma and Cambodia, sorry but they can't come close to Thailand.
Vietnam? Communist and upcoming but still not a as equal a place for a farang to start a business than Thailand.
Hong Kong, Singapore pang mak mak but not the easiest place either I've been called "cheesy gweilo" many times in HK.

So what's left?

Times are a changing.

Redirecting the anger of the people is used by many governments to cover up their own shortcomings.

[syeatman]

Originally Posted by urtheman

So what's left?

Malaysia then.

[brit]

Originally Posted by bigsquat

So gotta stick to Patong, Patts, Samui, and BKK, na?

Northern thailand is fine, I wouldn't make the same comparison to Midwest US in that sense. Thailand is strange in that as a farang you are prejudiced against on so many levels and often in ways that would never go down in a western country, but at the same time very rarely will it ever take the form of nastiness or harm to anything other than your bank balance. Not so in the case of UK or USA where being gay, looking like a terrorist or wearing the wrong football shirt can get you attacked and sometimes killed.

I think it depends how sensitive you are really, as a farang in thailand you will never be "in the club" whether as a tourist or 30-year expat but how much does that matter if it doesn't affect your life in a very tangiable way. I see it less as a negative specifically attached to thailand and more something to be proud of in our own culture than we've done well at breaking down class barriers and racial inequalities. It's something that you export to thailand and occasionally brings to people in your circle opportunities they otherwise could never have had, whether the wider community appreciates it or not.

[brit]

Great posts on this thread - thanks all I've enjoyed reading them. Myself I think countries and people are pretty much the same the world over - those with the power have a vested interest in keeping the lower classes down and maintaining the gap. Governments everywhere operate on conservative agendas as it keeps the population under control, they push this idea of society and social values because it ultimately serves their interests. More often that not it's the perfect platform for them because not only do the people accept it but they come out voting for it! It provides them with no benefit but it's easily swallowed when mixed up with spoon-fed bullshit nationalism and this concept of "the threat" (be it communism, foreigners, terrorism).

In thailand you have a paradox where it's the ruling classes that are raking in the money from farang but they are the ones most afraid of us as we're a threat to their position and power (I actually symapthise a little with the motive behind the anti-farang land and business laws as with a level playing field thai-owned business and power bases would be CRUSHED). The people at the bottom of the chain are the ones pushed this idea that farang are bad, and believe it, yet in no way suffer in fact the opposite. The presence of a jai-dee farang in small village will often change lives for the better, not just for them but for their kids and generations that follow.

Going back to the midwest USA we can draw parallels - the main support base for the republicans would actually be far better off under the democrats in almost every area (finance, health care, education etc). Yet they come out voting for Bush in droves because of this same agenda pushed on to them - terrorism, morality, patriotism, religion, etc. Again here it is ironic as they're supporting something which doesn't benefit them meanwhile the guys at the top have a vested interest in those same issues and misrepresent them for their own ends.