Visa 'clarifications'.. Clear as mud

[LivinLOS]

Taken from Thailand's New Immigration Regulations - from Sabah Cafe

Thailand's New Immigration Regulations
New Thailand Visa Regulations Become Clearer




On Saturday night Sabah Cafe & Cinema had a semi-formal visit from Immigration Police Major Suppachai Paladech, Inspector of the Immigration Detention Centre and Secretary to the Commissioner of Immigration; technically the second in command at Immigration. The intended purpose of the visit was to clear up some rumors and ally fears that many long term 'tourist' are having regarding the implementation of updated immigration regulations on the 1st October 2006.

To avoid confusion and in the interest of clarity, questions and answers were discussed by a few before the process was repeated with an adjudicator and Police Major Suppachai Paladech addressing an audience.

It is obvious that the present border runners will change into visa runners to other countries. What are the Department of Immigrations thoughts on this? From October 1st you can travel to the border and re-enter 3 times using the system of waiver of a visa. After that, if you get a single entry tourist visa from abroad you can stay here for 60 days, after that you can get a visa extension for 30 days, so it is already 6 months. Each time you leave the country you can come back with the visa extension again, so the tourist visa intervenes.
Questions and Answers:
Question: So if we buy a tourist visa and extend it for 1 month can we leave buy another tourist visa and back, can we continue to do that?

Police Major Suppachai: Yes, you can do that. We don't want some people staying on visa extensions for ever. Some people stay for 10 years. The main thing at the moment is that now people that come to Thailand for 10 years are not getting screened. With the tourist visa the police now have a chance to check the people that are not on the blacklist. That is the main thing of this new law.

Question: When does the new rule effecting 90-day maximum wavered visas come into affect?

Police Major Suppachai: It means that the person who has been staying on visa extensions for years, you can depart. If your visa ends on the 30 September, you leave the country and come back on the 30th September, you still can use that 3 times. There was misinformation on the Internet, it doesn't count by stamps, it counts by days. This is very important, it counts by days not stamps. Yeah counts by days.

Question: This is going to effect the airlines. How is Immigration going to handle this? How does an airline know when a passenger comes to their stamp quota? The airline is responsible for their passenger?



Police Major Suppachai: Your question is a very good question. OK we know that from the first of October it counts from 90 days and the problems will come back. Many people will be stopped at the border, right. So within 90 days we will try to do something. Because we are thinking about the electronic visas. We will use that kind of visa where the airline will have to submit the name of the person to our office before to issue the ticket, similar system to the US. It needs at least 1 year.

We don't want people using that kind of system (visa waiver) to stay in our country forever, we have to use the tourist visa to intervene in that system to screen them, to screen the people who are staying in our country.


Question: We have heard that there will be a 3 month visa you can buy here in Bangkok. Is this a new rule, if so when is it in place, is it already in existence, can you explain?

Police Major Suppachai: It is not a new visa, it is a new regulation for foreigners who don't have a visa, but visa extension, it means you can apply for a non immigration type B and O at the Immigration Bureau.

Question: In Thailand right?

Police Major Suppachai: Yes. But it means that you have to have at least 3 weeks, I mean visa. It means when you come in right, you have 4 weeks. In the first week you have to contact immigration, in Bangkok in Suan Phlu and submit the papers that you want to change your visa. You have to have a visa. Before we could change the category of visa from tourist to non-immigrant, but this time we can issue the visa as well.

A summary of points that were discussed in more detail:
The reason for the new regulations are twofold:

1. Try to eliminate known foreign criminals from entering Thailand. It is desired by the authorities that those staying longer term in Thailand should be screened through a more thorough computer system available at Embassies, Consulates and Immigration offices. Hence the reasoning of forcing people into applying for longer stays after a maximum of 90 days by obtaining 3 consecutive free 30 day waivers of a visa at entry points. Border crossing checkpoints are currently limited to screening out undesirables on the 'Blacklist' and high profile undesirables.

2. Persuade foreigners that are on the incorrect visas or stamps to correct their paperwork in line with the law. By making the trip to an Embassy, Consulate or Immigration office necessary within 90 days from 1st October 2006, it is hoped that foreigners who are disrespecting Thai law rectify the situation by applying for the correct visa. To aid this, Non immigrant B and O visas will be issued inside Thailand at the Immigration Office in Bangkok. IMPORTANTLY, to apply you have to have at least 3 weeks remaining on your current stamp and obviously the correct paperwork. The visa needed to apply is yet to be clarified. The Department of Immigration controls borders and The Department of Foreign Affairs controls Consulates and Embassies. There has been no official orders to tighten controls on issuing visas abroad. It is at the discretion of the issuing officer. It is business as usual. There is and never was a guarantee that you would be issued a single, double, etc visa. At borders the 90 day max of 'waivers of a visa' will be enforced once your 90 days FROM 1st October have been utilized within the period of 180 days. Days in country are counted and NOT number of stamps. There is an issue here with airlines and the Department of Immigration understands this. It is their wish that a system similar to something like the US where passenger list are checked electronically before departure will be installed in the future to eliminate problems. This may take some time. The Department of Immigration understands that their will be problems with the new regulations and will review as necessary.

[LivinLOS]

Now lets get serious.. Thats the number 2 immigration guy.. Clarifying these rules.. Dont know whether to laugh or cry..

Question: This is going to effect the airlines. How is Immigration going to handle this? How does an airline know when a passenger comes to their stamp quota? The airline is responsible for their passenger?

Police Major Suppachai: Your question is a very good question. OK we know that from the first of October it counts from 90 days and the problems will come back. Many people will be stopped at the border, right. So within 90 days we will try to do something. Because we are thinking about the electronic visas. We will use that kind of visa where the airline will have to submit the name of the person to our office before to issue the ticket, similar system to the US. It needs at least 1 year.

I mean what kind of answer is that.. OK so how do you propose to be able to actually accomplish that..

Hmm yeah your right.. Tough.. No idea really.. Maybe something new and electronic.. that sounds smart.. Yeah we will design one of those.. cause after all we still have 90 days to sort it out right.. And yeah like maybe next year we will have some way that all airlines in the world can in real time check this out at check in.. Over some kind of electronic thing..

If thats clarity from the top then I still say counting days cannot be done in real time at airports and immigration.. Enforcement will have to be selective.

Airlines at check in.. Impossible..

They seem to have have no idea.. Knee jerk reaction to Karr situation.. No effective planning on how to achieve what they are saying will be necessary..

[steve@thaib]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

.. Knee jerk reaction to Karr situation.. No effective planning on how to achieve what they are saying will be necessary..

Wow, do you really think that the Karr thing is such a big factor in this?

[Crustasian]

So it seems that as long as we long termers go out of the country and get a Tourist Visa we will be OK.This is the way I have been here for years.It will be interesting if they will still do double entry Visas.

The man said:

From October 1st you can travel to the border and re-enter 3 times using the system of waiver of a visa. After that, if you get a single entry tourist visa from abroad you can stay here for 60 days, after that you can get a visa extension for 30 days, so it is already 6 months. Each time you leave the country you can come back with the visa extension again, so the tourist visa intervenes.

I think he has actually come up with some equation that three 28 day stamps plus 1 x 60 day Tourist Visa and then 1 x 30 day extension equals 6 months and is legal.Repeat the process every six months.

It may sound strange but it would work.

[urtheman]

Originally Posted by Crustasian

So it seems that as long as we long termers go out of the country and get a Tourist Visa we will be OK.This is the way I have been here for years.It will be interesting if they will still do double entry Visas.

The man said:

From October 1st you can travel to the border and re-enter 3 times using the system of waiver of a visa. After that, if you get a single entry tourist visa from abroad you can stay here for 60 days, after that you can get a visa extension for 30 days, so it is already 6 months. Each time you leave the country you can come back with the visa extension again, so the tourist visa intervenes.

I think he has actually come up with some equation that three 28 day stamps plus 1 x 60 day Tourist Visa and then 1 x 30 day extension equals 6 months and is legal.Repeat the process every six months.

It may sound strange but it would work.

Talked with the lawyer friend last night in bangkok. She said the simplist thing for a farang to do right now is just get married to a Thai. Not much paperwork compared to non imm b visa or anything else.
So Crusty I say "get married my friend", come on make the girl happy.

[Mr Lucky]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Airlines at check in.. Impossible..

This is a major point for Thailand's tourism industry, but so far none of the major newspapers have thought to ask the opinions of tour operators and airlines on this.

As I mentioned in another thread, both THAI and Bangkok Airways sell ASEAN multi-trip passes. Not very useful when you are now limited to only two trips out once you're here.

As for the airline check-in problem: you're right that they won't be counting stamps in everyone's passport. They don't have time. Some airlines will have their staff just ask passengers if they have too many stamps. But I expect many may require that you have a tourist visa issued from a consulate.

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by steve@thaib

Wow, do you really think that the Karr thing is such a big factor in this?

I think it is. Karr was all over the front pages of new papers and magazines in many countries. A lot of the articles seemed to infer that BKK is a haven for child molester. Which means loss of face for Thailand. You know how Thais are a bout loss of face!

But, really, they have a point. Why should they be letting known felons and fugitives come into their country, which is what is happening under the 30-day waiver system with an unlimited number of waivers. They want a chance to check people out once in awhile, if they are going to be staying there long term.

[Captain]

Originally Posted by urtheman

Talked with the lawyer friend last night in bangkok. She said the simplist thing for a farang to do right now is just get married to a Thai. Not much paperwork compared to non imm b visa or anything else.

I think you just got a proposition from her.

[Crustasian]

Originally Posted by urtheman

Talked with the lawyer friend last night in bangkok. She said the simplist thing for a farang to do right now is just get married to a Thai. Not much paperwork compared to non imm b visa or anything else.
So Crusty I say "get married my friend", come on make the girl happy.

Wow - that is really a drastic piece of action.

I only have to wait one more year and then I will qualify for the geezer Visa.

[LivinLOS]

he he.. More like your avatar daily...

I am a good buch of years short of a geezer visa.. But this topic is not being shown to the missus..

[faultytowers]

Originally Posted by Crustasian

I only have to wait one more year and then I will qualify for the geezer Visa.

Will you also qualify for the "O.A.P" free tuk-tuk pass.

[LivinLOS]

Well it is a non imm O-A for a geezer visa.. Only a a quick P missing..

[Dodger]

Its the eye sight it starts to go when you get near fifty, along with the bladder!!!!

[Crustasian]

Simbo had a reply back from the Thai Consulate in Hull.They say Tourist Visas are not affected and it will still be possible to get back to back double entries.

[ST66]

Originally Posted by Crustasian

I think he has actually come up with some equation that three 28 day stamps plus 1 x 60 day Tourist Visa and then 1 x 30 day extension equals 6 months and is legal.Repeat the process every six months.
It may sound strange but it would work.

Or, as they count 90 days, you could on every second tour to Myanmar have 1 or 2 nights in some hotel over there.

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by Crustasian

Simbo had a reply back from the Thai Consulate in Hull.They say Tourist Visas are not affected and it will still be possible to get back to back double entries.

Yeah but thats a 'home country' embassy.. Totally different..

Check out what Vientienne are doing... Only issueing single entry tourist visas and adding this freaky little titbit.

[hiya]

Penang is giving 3 months visa 2 month on arrival plus 1 month extension

[LivinLOS]

Yeah Penang / Vientienne / Phom Phen / KL were all listed as being restricted to single entry tourist visa's as per a post on Thai Visa.. I cant remember about Sing but I would think all local embassies will tow the line for a while..

Home country embassies should still give multiples 2 or 3 and a few friendly consuls will even give quad entries.

[Dodger]

I have multi entry o visa, 12 months expires Jan 16th so got 90 days from that but thought I would pop in to Immigration in Patong for a chat to find out options. They suggested a dependent parent visa from January but said I needed to go to Phuket Town to get it, I asked also about Duncan and they said yes he can get one as well because he is also your dependent child. Popped into Phuket Town immigration the next day they said I could get dependent parent visa but needed a court letter confirming I was the father because we are not married and therefor birth cert not enough proof. But for Duncan not go as he is over 20 yrs old.

Went to see my solicitor she suggested the best route for me and new sons future would be to get court letter and apply for dependent parent visa as no more visa runs and it will make things easier for his schooling and when I apply for a British passport for him, for Duncan she suggested a b visa as he is a director in my company, no wp to save income tax but just apply for the B, reckons best leave that to January.

Just a side note the court letter as it is applied for by a Barrister was going to cost me 40,000 and then another 5,000 for the report, spoke to Nicke and his guy did it for 15,000, Thai guy no english spoken but did a good job for him.

[Nicke]

I think Penang have a sign on the wall/message board for years stating that only 3 consecutive tourists visas will be allowed (or similar). Maybe they stamp a similar text on the third one?

I have no idea myself.

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Yeah but thats a 'home country' embassy.. Totally different..

Check out what Vientienne are doing... Only issueing single entry tourist visas and adding this freaky little titbit.

[samuii]

All the talk about the Visa's........first of all , as many already wrote......take it easy, its only talk and specially now.......Im sure they have much more important issues to deal with right now.

BUT if they really are going to let us have only 3 entrees in a year, we (farangs from all over Thailand)who only come to Thailand to spend money (if you're one of us, you dont have to hide) should make a public protest, letting them know , how many we are and to let them know , that we support their ideas of trying to get rid of the illigal workers
It must be easy for the imigration officials to see, that the person just went in and out so and so many times........but for us who goes overseas for weeks or month.......we shouldnt be refused entry to Thailand that easy.

As you can read, Im not good at English ....so Im the wrong guy to be the frontier........so who ever is good to express them self and who ofcourse agree with my opinium, please go ahead.......Im sure you will get a lot of support !