A sad warning

[richone]

I spotted this on the BBC website and thought it would be an appropriate reminder to BM's that electrical safety in LOS is all too frequently not up to western standards and we need to be keep our wits about us.

The British boy died in the accident on Saturday

A British boy has died after being electrocuted in a hotel room at a beach resort in Phuket, Thailand.

Connor Dean O'Keefe, aged seven, is believed to have been killed when he plugged his Game Boy in at a room at the Sunset Beach Resort on Saturday.

Local police believe he plugged in the handheld console while still wet after swimming, causing the accident.

His mother told the Daily Mirror he knew the dangers of electricity and was "definitely" not wet when electrocuted.

Reports suggest the child was found by his mother and stepfather after the incident, which happened during a family holiday.
He wouldn't mess around with plugs and he definitely was not wet
Kathleen Patricia Curry


Kathleen Patricia Curry, 45, and David Skinner, 49, are said to have found their son slumped on the floor of the room.

Ms Curry told the newspaper: "My son was only unplugging his Game Boy. He knew about the dangers of electricity and was not stupid.

"He wouldn't mess around with plugs and he definitely was not wet."

And she called for some sort of warning about different electrical systems abroad.

Meanwhile, Connor's sister Maria told the paper he had bought the Game Boy in Thailand.

'Tragic accident'

"Obviously there has to be a question over the safety of the electrics in the hotel," she said.

However, she conceded that this was "something that still has to be properly looked into".

Acting hotel manager Wiraporn Ungathakorn said he feared that a combination of water and electricity led to an electric shock which proved fatal, according to reports.

He said: "The water must have gone straight into the plug. The safety cut could not save him.

"He was found by his parents in the room and we sent him to hospital by ambulance."

The acting manager added: "Doctors could not save him. The hotel has paid his medical fees. This was just a tragic accident."

Tsunami aftermath

These sentiments were echoed by Police Lieutenant Colonel Sopol Borirak, who said "no blame" had been attached to the death as "it was an accident".

The Foreign Office said it was unable to comment on the boy's death.

The child's parents are thought to have returned to the UK with his body on Thursday.

The 95-room resort is in an area that was badly affected by the Tsunami two years ago.

It has since been repaired and visitor numbers have improved.

However, local authorities fear that such incidents may affect tourism.

[IRISH JONNY]

ALREADY POSTED......
http://www.phuket-info.com/forums/ne...ed-patong.html

IJ

[AngloTeuton]

Originally Posted by richone

I spotted this on the BBC website and thought it would be an appropriate reminder to BM's that electrical safety in LOS is all too frequently not up to western standards and we need to be keep our wits about us.

Thai elecric household/hotel wiring is not grounded, unlike in UK, EU, OZ, NZ and US. Most places I've stayed at I got mild electric buzzes from my computers, DVD player ect. Best and not so harmless indication of "ground fault" i e the lines are wired wrong. Very dangerous.

The current is 220 Volt AC and deadly! Especially for kids with damp hands.

So be careful out there! My mansion unit has no electric outlet in the bathroom. They know why. So I shave at my desk.

[Nicke]

Thats true, Thailand dont know about grounding (earth). Even in my house I can not touch anything without getting a big electric shock. So if i want to connect cables to my computer I have to turn off the electric first.

However, only my washing machine is grounded. They drilled a hole through the floor to achieve this.

[dawsey]

Originally Posted by Nicke

Thats true, Thailand dont know about grounding (earth). Even in my house I can not touch anything without getting a big electric shock. So if i want to connect cables to my computer I have to turn off the electric first.

However, only my washing machine is grounded. They drilled a hole through the floor to achieve this.

Are the hotels all like this as well Nicke??. If they are then that is pretty serious for anybody staying there using sockets for laptops /mp3 and suchlike.

[stevem]

Dont believe if you see a 3 holed outlet that it is actually earthed, quiet often it will not be. When we rewired Playschool, the amount of trouble I had trying to get it thru to them that I wanted the whole building earthed was unbelievable. I couldnt believe that they didnt at least have the sound system earthed.

In the end it was all done as I wanted, but you had to watched em, and the whole job was only 40K, couldnt complain about that.

[Nicke]

I would think the hotels are same, grounding in Thailand dont seems to be common, everywhere I have stayed I had this problem.

So be careful with electronic appliances.

Originally Posted by dawsey

Are the hotels all like this as well Nicke??. If they are then that is pretty serious for anybody staying there using sockets for laptops /mp3 and suchlike.

[jimholio]

Not sure how that kind of stuff works but, wouldnt machines hooked up to unearthed sockets be quite vulnerable during thunder storms? I just got the picture in my head but might be wrong.

[stevem]

Originally Posted by jimholio

Not sure how that kind of stuff works but, wouldnt machines hooked up to unearthed sockets be quite vulnerable during thunder storms? I just got the picture in my head but might be wrong.

Even if it is earthed, that isnt going to protect your applicance from a power surge, let alone a lightning strike. You need to be behind a UPS. I lost count how many PC power supplies I lost whilst living there.

[dawsey]

Originally Posted by Nicke

I would think the hotels are same, grounding in Thailand dont seems to be common, everywhere I have stayed I had this problem.

So be careful with electronic appliances.

Hmmm Note to self: Dont come out the shower and plug in the camera charger
Thanks for the warning, I'll make sure my family are well aware of this.

[stevem]

If we ever get that listing of accom happening, this would be a good field to add to the entry. Property earthed or not.

[MrDK]

Not knowing the details of the accident it is unlikely that grounded outlets would have spared the boys life. Most likely the boy acted as the ground and got in contact with a live wire. When you are wet you are a more effective ground and contact with the live wire doesn't have to be direct. This significantly increases the risk of electrocution. In speculation, what likely happened here was that the wet boy grabbed the wall cube of the charger and plucked it in. The water aided as a conductor to the live prong. In this case grounding wouldn't have helped, however a ground fault circuit interrupter would. Even in western countries it is not common to have ground fault protection outside of "wet" areas, such as bathrooms, kitchen, basements, etc. That means that in a western hotel there most likely would been sufficient protection had he plucked it into a bathroom outlet, but not if he had plucked it into another outlet in the room.
For those who care I will explain the difference between grounded and Ground Fault below.

Personally I am in process of building a house (doing my own electrical) and the building inspector complemented me, but said I was going overboard, when I installed ground fault protection for every outlet in the house.


Grounded: A devise that is grounded is protected so that any exposed conductive parts are connected to ground. In case of a false path from the live circuit to the exposed parts will be directed to ground, hence you will not feel it. Such path is nonetheless still a fault. Without the exposed conductive parts being grounded "you" become the ground, causing anything from a small tinkle to fatal electrical shock. Grounding is an excellent protection from equipment faults.

Ground Fault: In a fault free circuit the current flowing "out and back" through the outlet or electrical panel is the same (nothing going to ground). A GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) monitors the balance and if not balanced interrupts the circuit.

[AngloTeuton]

Originally Posted by MrDK

Not knowing the details of the accident it is unlikely that grounded outlets would have spared the boy's life. Most likely the boy
.....circuit.

Thanks for the expert explanation. Could the fact that this hotel was tsunami-damaged been a factor? Saltwater in the paper liners of the elecrical cables would make an excellent conductor. They have this problem in Florida after hurricanes.

Thunderstorms and surges: I unplug everything in the apt unit when I hear thunder (incl LAN cable for Internet), and when I leave the place for more than a few minutes.

[marc26]

this may sound like a silly question
but are some people more "static" than others?
seems to me i cause a small shock alot when i touch people

[MrDK]

Originally Posted by AngloTeuton

Thanks for the expert explanation. Could the fact that this hotel was tsunami-damaged been a factor? Saltwater in the paper liners of the elecrical cables would make an excellent conductor. They have this problem in Florida after hurricanes.

It wasn't disclosed exactly how it happened other that it was accidental. Corrosion in electrical wiring and damage to insulation can cause all kinds of hazards (in particular fire). Before there can be a shock hazard there that to exposed wires or wires touching exposed conductive material.
Based on the report, I doubt that is the case. But it really anyone's guess.

[MrDK]

Originally Posted by marc26

this may sound like a silly question
but are some people more "static" than others?
seems to me i cause a small shock alot when i touch people

Static I am not sure, but conductive yes. Older people have much dryer skin and are less conductive. Some electronic equipment that used touch sensors are more difficult for older people to operate because their touch is less conductive.

Static is a build-up of an electrical potential that can reach several thousand volts. When you touch something of another potential, i.e. ground, there is a discharge. This statement is purely speculative on my part: I would not be surprised if the same skin conditions can have an effect in both charge and discharge.

[senor123]

I also don't know much about electricity but I have some sort of gizmo in my electricity box that trips as soon as there is a problem. So, if you plug in a faulty lamp or cut a power cord, shove a knife into a power socket etc, the thing trips and cuts off the electricity.
I know it works because I accidently tested it once by pluging in a power cord that my pet Cockatoo had chewed through.
Now I am nervous about all the appliances in my g/f's house as she tells me that it is "normal" to get a bit of a buzz from some of the things in the kitchen.
Steve

[ATMwalking]

Originally Posted by senor123

Now I am nervous about all the appliances in my g/f's house as she tells me that it is "normal" to get a bit of a buzz from some of the things in the kitchen.
Steve

That is the problem. I had all of my outlets grounded. But very few things sold here come with the grounding plug. I wanted to install the third prong, but you can't find the rounded ground copper anywhere. At least I don't get shocks off my computers anymore.

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by senor123

I also don't know much about electricity but I have some sort of gizmo in my electricity box that trips as soon as there is a problem. So, if you plug in a faulty lamp or cut a power cord, shove a knife into a power socket etc, the thing trips and cuts off the electricity.
I know it works because I accidently tested it once by pluging in a power cord that my pet Cockatoo had chewed through.
Now I am nervous about all the appliances in my g/f's house as she tells me that it is "normal" to get a bit of a buzz from some of the things in the kitchen.
Steve

The gizmo you are talking about is a circuit breaker, which cuts the power when a short in the system causes a greater than normal amount of amperage to be drawn through the circuit. The electricity bypasses the resistance(appliance, light bulb, etc.), therefore drawing a sudden tremendous amount of current, and when too much current flows through the circuit breaker, then it trips, breaking the circuit.

A circuit breaker doesn't help in this sort of accident, since the current took the path of least resistance, i.e., through the body of the boy to complete the circuit. Circuit breakers help mainly to prevent the wires overheating and possibly causing a fire.

Having grounded appliances helps to prevent shock or getting a "buzz" when you touch the metal on an appliance.

But, as MR DK says, only a GFI(ground fault interrupter) can save someone's life when they handle an appliance or plug with wet hands, and the water creates a path for the electric current to flow from a live wire or connection through them and into the ground. Then the amount of current that can be drawn in a fraction of a second is enough to kill someone. This is true whether the current is 110 volts or 220 volts, but obviously it could be even faster with 220. It can stop your heart in an instant.

GFIs are usually put right in the wall outlets in kitchens and baths, but IIANM, they can also be installed in the electrical panel on each circuit, in addition to a circuit breaker, and, perhaps really ought to be. Every time I go to plug in anything, I always instinctively look to see if my hands are wet.

I've done a lot of wiring in houses, and often will work on a live circuit, without bothering to cut the breaker, so I've had plenty of shocks. 110V can really rattle you, but 220V kicks like a mule. Obviously, in none of those instances did I ever have wet hands and/or bare feet. If that kid had been wearing dry flip-flops, he might have gotten off with the shock of his life, but lived to tell about it, since rubber is not a very good conductor of electricity. Wet hands is bad news, but combine that with bare feet, and it can be fatal. A childhood friend of mine died under much the same circumstances as the British lad, when we were 11 years old. That was before they used GFIs, and that is what they were invented to prevent.

[senor123]

Originally Posted by JayBee

.

But, as MR DK says, only a GFI(ground fault interrupter) can save someone's life when they handle an appliance or plug with wet hands, and the water creates a path for the electric current to flow from a live wire or connection through them and into the ground. Then the amount of current that can be drawn in a fraction of a second is enough to kill someone. This is true whether the current is 110 volts or 220 volts, but obviously it could be even faster with 220. It can stop your heart in an instant.

GFIs are usually put right in the wall outlets in kitchens and baths, but IIANM, they can also be installed in the electrical panel on each circuit, in addition to a circuit breaker, and, perhaps really ought to be. Every time I go to plug in anything, I always instinctively look to see if my hands are wet.

.

Hi JayBee
Then the gizmo that I am talking about must be a GFI because I was mucking around with my fishtank and I plugged a light back into the electricity panel. My hands were wet and I got a belt but the electricity to the power outlets for all the fishtank motors/lights/pumps etc was cut immediately and I had to reset the unit.
Just had a look at it. It's called a Clipsal Safety Switch and it says it protects power points only.
It is an add-on unit in my electricty board. I remember a few years ago the government was promoting them and it didn't cost much to get them installed, so I bought one.
I also have circuit breakers that trip when I have too many appliances running.
Steve

[marc26]

Originally Posted by MrDK

Static I am not sure, but conductive yes. Older people have much dryer skin and are less conductive. Some electronic equipment that used touch sensors are more difficult for older people to operate because their touch is less conductive.

Static is a build-up of an electrical potential that can reach several thousand volts. When you touch something of another potential, i.e. ground, there is a discharge. This statement is purely speculative on my part: I would not be surprised if the same skin conditions can have an effect in both charge and discharge.

thanks man, very informative

[syeatman]

Originally Posted by marc26

this may sound like a silly question
but are some people more "static" than others?
seems to me i cause a small shock alot when i touch people

could be down to your footwear as well....I used to have a pair of trainers that would generate loads of static when I walked on carpe