bars

[talk2shaun]

Thinking of making the jump to Thailands green and pleasent land probably round the Patong area and would not mind running a little tick over business there. I see a lot of bars for sale and would risk about £10,000 (G.B.P.) if I come solo or £20,000 if I come with a friend.

Can anyone give me an idea of what is the score with buying businesses over there and what sort of place I would be looking at for my money. I know it is how long is a piece of string question but what can you conservativly (if your not a complete idiot) expect to make from a bar per month.

Any feedback would be cracking.

Shaun

[LivinLOS]

If you need to ask.. You really shouldnt..

10k GBP +- 650k baht.. Does not much of a bar buy..

Come live here for 6 months (theres your 10k spent) and suss out how things work..

[Geir]

If you want to buy a bar to make a liveing here, I would recon you need at least 5 times your money to even think about it........and its still not easy.

Geir

[Baz]

Heres three Soi Monthly rental prices guess which ones goes with which soi

20,000 Baht
27,000 Baht
40,000 Baht

Soi Viking
Soi Crocodile
Soi Sukhumvit

Baz

[talk2shaun]

Not really thinking of making a living from a bar just want something to do really. Got an income coming in from the U.K. But don't really know if I could be an entire man of leisure, Just wanted something to keep me occupied that would maybe bring in a couple of quid to buy me the odd day out.

Just scouring websites for businesses for sale and saw a couple of bars for around the 10k (GBP) mark and was just wondering are these just money pits or do you draw a couple of quid from them. We all have to start some where and a question is the cheapest way.

Been over there a few times and was looking to spend at least a year over there just to see how things work on the ground before I lay out money but just want to see what other people's experiences were.

Would invest more if anyone has any ideas, guest houses etc.

Any feedback even negative is a good thing.

Shaun

[LivinLOS]

Not much at 10k GBP in the main area of Patong.. Nothing in fact..

Anything outside the main areas is going to be a money pit for 9 months of the year.. Even bars back out of the tourist trade on say Nanai are looking often at well over your amount.. I know of two going for more than double that.. And they are not anything special..

Too many people think its a good idea.. So lots of competition and too much money chasing the same thing.. For a guesthouse look at at least 20x the amount your talking about..

[seven]

well, soi sukhumvit is fcin expensive compared to other soi`s that
have much more traffic/potensial customer.
Example, - i have to sell 36 bottles of beer everyday,just to brake even...

7

[LivinLOS]

Is that 36 bottles profit to pay the rent.. Or 36 bottles sale for rent..

Or ALL costs..

Cos 36 bottles beer to brake even (cover ALL costs) looks good..

[seven]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Is that 36 bottles profit to pay the rent.. Or 36 bottles sale for rent..

Or ALL costs..

Cos 36 bottles beer to brake even (cover ALL costs) looks good..

All costs.exept entertainment,bar,liquer tax and teamoney..
But when you have 3 - 8 customer a day it`s not so good,if they aren`t very thirsty then..

7

[Nicke]

I just counted that I need to sell 28,800 beers a year to cover for rent (including keymoney) and staff.

And then we have low season, which can be very quiet, big part of the year.

[seven]

Originally Posted by Nicke

I just counted that I need to sell 28,800 beers a year to cover for rent (including keymoney) and staff.

wow,that`s 78 bottles a day

well...put me down for 200 of them starting des 6

7

[Baz]

20,000 Baht Soi Crocodile
27,000 Baht Soi Sukhumvit
40,000 Baht Soi Viking

Thai logic, the busiest soi is the cheapest and the dead soi is the most expensive rent.

There is a Soi giving bars rent only options, no key money. So if wanted a try the bar trade before you buy maybe a good option.

Baz

[talk2shaun]

Bloody glad I started this link. Sitting here in the comfortable old U.K. it seems like a good idea to buy a bar for something to do and then sit back and enjoy. Do not want to be throwing money away though and certainly not looking for hard graft that's what I'm running away from.

You just see stuff on the web and think its might be a good idea and then try to do ya homework. Saw one guy selling a bar called whiskers bar just off Bangala Road for around 500,000 baht and then saw a 80 seater sea food restaurant called Vicks Place with 2 rooms above up for 2,000,000b and a guest house for $41,000 (U.S) all in the Patong area.

So are these prices just bulls**t???

Shaun

[K2]

Originally Posted by Baz

20,000 Baht Soi Crocodile
27,000 Baht Soi Sukhumvit
40,000 Baht Soi Viking

Thai logic, the busiest soi is the cheapest and the dead soi is the most expensive rent.

There is a Soi giving bars rent only options, no key money. So if wanted a try the bar trade before you buy maybe a good option.

Baz

Baz's numbers are only rent ... whack on top of that the dreaded Key Money (consider it rent), then saleries, liciences, work permit, charitable contributions etc etc.

For 20k GBP ( 1.3 mil THB) you can buy a modest bar, but add another 10k at least to get the business off the ground.

And baer in mind - IT IS WORK - running a bar is no walk in the park - for this kind of budget I'd suggest buying a China or India investment fund and come back in 20 years. Sorry to be frank but you might as well be told straight, so as to avoid pi$$ing away your capital.

[seven]

Originally Posted by Baz

20,000 Baht Soi Crocodile
27,000 Baht Soi Sukhumvit
40,000 Baht Soi Viking

Thai logic, the busiest soi is the cheapest and the dead soi is the most expensive rent.

There is a Soi giving bars rent only options, no key money. So if wanted a try the bar trade before you buy maybe a good option.

Baz

Soi Sukhumvit is 40 000 Baht..at least that was what i was paying,Maybe it is different for " small bars",versus "big" in that soi..

7

[talk2shaun]

Being frank is good for me no good wrapping the truth up sugar it only causes for a whole world of hurt down the line. It seemed to be a good idea. Some people you talk to are a bit full of it so it is nice to get the story from the people on the ground who know what they are on about.

Just got to get a few things off the ground in the U.K. here 1st building a bit of a safety net before I take the jump. So if it doesn't work out I've got something decent to come home to.

Cheers for all the advice guys and gals

Shaun

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by seven

All costs.exept entertainment,bar,liquer tax and teamoney..
But when you have 3 - 8 customer a day it`s not so good,if they aren`t very thirsty then..

7

Well for all bills it seems cheap to me.. Say profit is 35 - 40 baht per beer.. 40 x 36 = 1440 per night.. Thats hardly rent for many bars I know let alone key money + rent + staff + sundries..

I would have thought on a normal 3 year key money of say >1.5mil that you would need 1369 per night or (at 40 baht profit per beer) 34 beers profit just to break even on getting your (key) money back.. Thats before rent staff and all other costs.

I remember chatting with someone who had bought about 14 months lease under tiger for a shocker price (more than 100k per month in key alone) and was telling me how much 'profit' he was making monthly (it was only a hair above the key let alone rent) and I always just think.. Theres not one baht of profit until you have made the key back..

[seven]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Well for all bills it seems cheap to me.. Say profit is 35 - 40 baht per beer.. 40 x 36 = 1440 per night.. Thats hardly rent for many bars I know let alone key money + rent + staff + sundries..

I would have thought on a normal 3 year key money of say >1.5mil that you would need 1369 per night or (at 40 baht profit per beer) 34 beers profit just to break even on getting your (key) money back.. Thats before rent staff and all other costs.

I remember chatting with someone who had bought about 14 months lease under tiger for a shocker price (more than 100k per month in key alone) and was telling me how much 'profit' he was making monthly (it was only a hair above the key let alone rent) and I always just think.. Theres not one baht of profit until you have made the key back..

The 3 year lease i got then,was 900 000 Baht,Compared to under tiger at the same time was 1.2 m,but the rent was as low as 25 000 a month,this is about 2 years ago.
I was counting around 60 Baht profit for beers on averedge.sell for 80-100 baht depending the brand.
1 thing is for sure,key money/renting prices has skyrocket..
To shaun ; do a thorough research about places possibility to get traffic/customers.
I for one,lost like a bandit,when they(landlord vs landowner outside) decide to
block the entrance to soi seadragon

anyway,best of luck

7

[LivinLOS]

Apologies if it seems I was either being nosey into your finances or claiming to know your biz better than you.. That really wasnt my intention.

For sure the way to really make money is to actually own a plot of land and build the bars.. A few years ago I could have bought some roadside land on Nanai.. With the insane price that leases are now fetching even back there the return would have been really good, and thats without figuring in any capital appreciation from the land assets value rising.

[Nanook]

Originally Posted by Nicke

I just counted that I need to sell 28,800 beers a year to cover for rent (including keymoney) and staff.

And then we have low season, which can be very quiet, big part of the year.

Guess you have a couple of regulars BM's who can help you easily by consuming about half of that quantity Nicky...

I'm just calculating how much Cokes that would be... 55555....

[seven]

no prob LIL ,yes you should have bought it back then,and been a landlord today And farang would come to you complaining about the stiff prices 555.
The LL (landlords) seem to be the only 1 that makes profit theese days.
I have no prob understanding them,it`s sellers marked,there is always someone willing to pay more..

7

[LivinLOS]

I think theres actually a plot of Nanai sided land still.. Cant remember if it was lease or chanote..

[Dodger]

Is that the one just as you go over the hill? been for sale long long time? got a sign on it? just assumed that it must be over priced for being on the market so long.

[LivinLOS]

yeah.. it was over priced years back.. if the price is same it would be doable now.. Course that will probably mean its 5x the price now..

If you dont sell it.. keep putting the price up until you do..

Also what happened to the ICON hotel.. That was a nice place, now its empty and just sitting there.. Bank repossession ??

[talk2shaun]

Cheers Seven

I have given myself a 12 - 18 month wrap up plan in this country and a year on the ground sussing time when I get over there. Sites like this will hopefully help me speed things up a bit research wise.

Cheers mate

Shaun