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#36
29-10-2005, 01:19
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In Sweden itīs the total opposite, almost everyone is travelling abroad and the ones who never does seems a little bit strange.
A thing about u americans I noticed on tv-shows is that many americans think foreign people donīt like u (right me if Iīm wrong). Especially frenchmen. Of us europeans who arenīt very found of USA itīs the politics we donīt like not the people, Iīve met many friendly americans. 
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#37
29-10-2005, 01:23
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Quote:
I believe two Roberts makes it right...  To be honest I'm not overly fond of most of my countrymen anyway, so I'm glad I am in a small group...makes me more unique. Everyone made some good points...another reason I enjoy the board...its a broad mix of people who see things so differntly growing up....For me I have always been a "traveling man".
__________________
J.K. Livin  Heywood
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#38
29-10-2005, 02:11
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[quote=urtheman]7. The middle class family with two kids can't afford it and get quotes from travel agents trying to rip them off so they just take the cheap package tour to Hawaii instead. After state and federal taxes, house paymets, etc the typical family in my estimation simply dosen't have the means to get to Thailand.
8 Many American man wouldn't know what to do with a woman who dosen't weigh within 10kilos of their own weight  Marc, Heywood, Jaybee, Rockstar excluded (sorry if I forgot any others)Robert, please do not try to generalise too much. I am a travel wholesaler and the airlines give us the bulk rates. If their fares are lower than that my customer gets the lowest of the 2 fares even though I do not make as much money. Remember that unlike parts of Europe, we do not have any charter airlines to a lot of destinations. Europeans have charter flights to lots of destinations and their international carriers have lots of competition and lots of flights & seats to sell so that helps keep the price down. I can send a person to Phuket or the Philippines with a package from LA for cheaper than I can send someone to an out island resort in Belize or the Caymans when you include meals. The problem is the fear of the unknown. They speak english in Hawaii and Miami(sort of) and Australia(or close to it) so US citizens are more comfortable with that. As for women, there are some fabulous looking small sized women all over the US and you know that. The problem is their attitude. I want my customers to travel but going to certain destinations from the US is a lot more expensive than doing it from the Europe. And another thing that does not help is that a lot of asian hotels give us a price and then undercut that when you deal with them directly.
__________________
variety is the spice of life. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Mav's a hasher, not a basher, Tell me it ain't so! Mav, he sits on ice, says it feels nice, enjoyed it so much, he did it twice.
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#39
29-10-2005, 04:20
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The uneducated disinterested masses? Blame public education/Bad Parenting.
Native Cali boy here. Yes, I have all these wonderful attractions around me, actually live in San Francisco, a tourist mecca. Yet, still, I wanna get the hell outta here. I didn't dream of Florida or Hawaii at all. My first vacation on my own was to backpack around Europe with a Eurail pass. Had the time of my life. Still have not been to Hawaii or Florida. I am glad I saw New Orleans and NYC, though.
Why am I more interested in going abroad more than many Americans? I think it has to do with my education and background. As a child, I'd be flipping through my dad's navy scrapbook and seeing all these killer photos of him in the 50's in various ports of call. I'd beg him to tell me stories of his experiences in this country or that (which got jucier as I got older!). That made me want to retrace his steps. My mom and I would sit together with an Atlas and thumb through it, she called it her "wish book". My parents were not college educated, but they watched the news and read papers. They were actually interested in the world. If I had parents that were ignorant and less educated, I can understand why their children have no interest in the world. Good parenting makes all the difference. I'm in my early 40's and back in grade/middle/high school, you had to take a lot more history and social studies than the kids do today. You had to pass a test about US History before they would let you move on to high school, in fact. I loved history and dreamed about visiting these countries I had read and studied about. With Proposition 13 here in Cali, they cut off many "unnecessary" programs, like sports, music, social studies, foreign languages, and history in the early 80's. You know, geography was the first thing to go.  Even sadder? A lion's share of the teachers that are educating kids nowadays were educated after the mid-80's Prop. 13 era, so they cannot teach or be passionate about the world because they were not exposed to history, geography, language and social sciences themselves. Can a 25 year old teacher point out LOS on the map? I don't think so pal. This is going to perpetuate and breed more ignorance. Which sucks....I mean, consider that modern teachers largely grew up in the Reagan era, which speaks volumes about ignorance. A nightmare! I had the good fortune of having passionate history, language and social studies teachers. I wonder if this breed still exists? I tend to doubt it. So, as GUnit 79 points out, the kids are blissfully ignorant these days. They largely are not educated in what the real world is like (Starburyballa3 excepted, and he IS an exception IMHO). They cannot point out countries of the world on a map, which is scary. We had to learn about the countries of the world at a very young age. Even in first grade, I can vividly recall that the first half of the year we studied about Mexico. The second half was about Japan. We were only 6 or 7 years old! We had a few Japanese Americans in our class. One gal would show up every year in a full blown kimono and bang out a coupla tunes on her huge koto--we were mesmerized! So what I am saying is that there is no interest in traveling abroad because it is not only fear of the unknown, but blatant ignorance of the unknown. They don't want to travel to a place they can't even point out on a map. They didn't study history, geography or social studies so have no interest in their place in the world, nor are they interested in seeking out other cultures, languages or ways of life. So anyone that was not educated here before the mid-80's will have a woeful background in the important things regarding the world around them: no knowledge of history, geography, foreign language or social customs. Sadly, largely, they don't seem to care. Take the show "Street Smarts" or the Tonight Show's Jay Leno when he does the segment, "Jay Walking" where EXTREMELY simple questions are asked about topics on history, government, etc., usually to younger folks. The audience laughs at the ridiculously wrong answers, but I just shake my head. I soon wonder, "How can the US turn out such IDIOTS?" It's truly appalling. This will never change until the American public educational system reverts to its former ways in actually educating its populace as it did in years past. *COUGH*(yeah right)*COUGH*.... No way will this ever happen which is another sad truism. The US will continue to decline if it does not make this a national priority. I call it "the dumbing down of America". Bush can huff all the hot air he wants, but education is NOT a priority and the system is in worse shape than ever. Why? I think they WANT the masses to remain dumb. Nothing I can see is being done to improve the situation. It's even worse in the Bible Belt where the Science books mention "intelligent design", which bashes the origin of species and injects "God's Immense Power" into the science labs of our public schools. NOT cool according to our constitution that mandates separation of church vs. state. I'm glad I went through public school when I did, but I feel sorry for kids going through it nowadays. Public education in the US is a shell of its former greatness. The disparity in the quality of education between whites and people of color is appalling these days. The other day on a flight I sat next to a teacher that worked in Oakland, which is largely African American. She was grading some basic assignments that looked like they were created by 5-6 year olds. I asked if she was teaching kindergarten or first grade. She said, "Nope. These are middle school students--7th or 8th graders". Wow. Our country's in worse shape than I thought.
__________________
Nid Noy is your partner in crime!
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#40
29-10-2005, 04:28
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Airfares
Quote:
Hep, Don't misunderstand me. Sure, the airfares can be cheap. Unfortunately, that's usually the least of it. For example, I see cheap fares all the time to Europe. The problem is, once you get there, everything is EXPENSIVE. And of course, the value of the dollar has tanked. Rex
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#41
29-10-2005, 04:54
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That really is an excellent post Nid Noy. I see so much of what you are writing about happening in Australia as well. Australia is traditionally a nation of travellers, yet we have a prime minister whose government has currently issued travel warnings about 16 countries, including LOS. I see the government's attitudes becoming more and more conservative, insular and withdrawn.
I also see a decline in educational standards, (I teach). Many kids have absolutely no interest in expanding their horizons and learning a foreing language , for example. (Why can't they all speak English). We live in interesting times.
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#42
29-10-2005, 14:26
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Thanks for the great posts guys, I have nothing to add to the subject itself but it was very interesting reading to me.
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#43
29-10-2005, 16:49
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Just got off the beach here in Patong and found this post to be pretty good. I had the same conversation w/ another american at the beach. Nid Noy did a great job summarizing the point of view that we americans have drilled into us from day one. I know for many years i thought that everything that needed to be seen was in the U.S. but after i went to europe i realized that there was a great deal to see and i better start seeing it while i can.
This has been my first trip to LOS and while it won't be the last I'm eager to see other parts of the world as well. I heard nothing but naysayers before i got on the plane a few weeks ago. Bird flu, terrorism, crime, pushy tailors. Things get so overblown in the american media that people accept an actor reading the news as the gospel. Will it change?? Doesn't seem likely from my point of view. jj
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#44
29-10-2005, 18:47
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[quote=seafox]
Quote:
With 300 million strong anything said about Americans can be construed as a generalization. If I insulted anyone or their occupation, I'm sorry. I'm not in your business so your info you just provided gives me good insight. Yes, there are small women in the states (3) and yes I have met some of the hottest Asain women in L.A. & S.F. Cheers!
__________________
"Start every day off with a smile and get it over with" W.C. Fields
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#45
29-10-2005, 19:15
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There's no place like home! Everything that I want, need, or have interest in, is right here at home! (USA) Why would any American travel 11,000 miles, to visit Thailand? A place, where I here...bodies are still strewn along the beaches, from when the last natural disaster struck! (tsunami and all) Not to mention the humidity, filth, and disease. Can't drink the water! The food is too spicy! No decent medical care! Bug's and all sort of flying insects! And, I've been told, that the "jihadist's", have been successful in nurturing strong anti-american sentiment, in the area!
No way man! I'll stay right here, and enjoy the culture, beauty, and serenity of the good old USA. ATTENTION: All american's should stay away from Thailand!!!! Pablo
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#46
29-10-2005, 20:57
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Nice one Pablo ,  That's definately worth a beer next time I meet up with you in MTB.
__________________
Member of Phuket Hash House Harriers
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#47
29-10-2005, 23:01
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A great post by Nid Noy I thought. He summed up perfectly the problems with the education system and in particular the lack of geograpy being taught by passionate teachers. Ignorance is bliss.
A very frightening thing for me was the survey that was printed in UK newspapers at the beginning of the Gulf War in 1991. It showed that over 30% of Americans didn't even know where Iraq was!!!!! When asked to pinpoint it on a world map,some placed it in Africa, South America and other strange locations.  I mean,come on, don't people owe it to themselves to know a bit about this world we live in.
__________________
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?
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#48
30-10-2005, 15:48
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Quote:
When you grow up in California, you don't dream of going to CA, and, in fact, Florida sounds pretty tame, 'cause it's not as spectacular as CA, and it's full of mosquitoes! Hawaii sounds better, but before you are old enough to get there, you've already heard how it's overrun by tourists and not what it used to be. So it's passe before you ever get there. You hear things about Europe, Asia, India, Africa, stories from people you meet who have been there, and it gets your blood going. Possibly you even get a taste of the excitement of another way of life with a trip to Mexico while you are still a kid. Where I live, all the kids head for Europe when they get out of high school, if they haven't already been there on summer vacations. Most have already been to Hawaii and Mexico before that. Florida? What a joke! Nevada? That's where your ski trips are every winter since you were a baby! People born in SF or LA, which are international cities, get a completely different view of life. They see foreign cultures of all sorts right in their cities. The idea of people speaking in foreign tongues is not strange at all. You almost have to know a little Spanish, just to get by. And, as you experienced, with the Japanese kids, all kids here grow up with other kids who come from other countries, and usually can speak another language. No exceptions to that. Every school has some immigrant kids in it. And if your parents do have money, then you are for sure going to travel. That's just the way it is here. Much more like Europe, although in Europe it would be hard to avoid it, because foreign countries are all around you, which they are not in the US. But this just points out that people speak of an average American. I don't think there is such a thing, any more than there is an average European. Maybe less so. There may be an average Alabaman, an average Kansan, or average Dakotan. But an average American? I don't think so. America is really 50 states, which are like 50 countries united as one union. Many states are bigger than European countries, and there are probably more than 2500 counties in them, many as big as European countries. Is there even an average New Yorker or Californian? I think not. A state like California is bigger than most European countries, more populous than many, and far more diverse than any European country, IMHO. Average American? As mythical a being as a Unicorn!! JayBee 
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown. 
Last edited by JayBee : 30-10-2005 at 15:55.
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#49
30-10-2005, 17:44
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i think on most parts, in america, its pure ignoance!
my sister is a perfect example.her and I have been close since i was 5 years old. she is 10yrs older than me, and now, and even growing up, she is my 2nd mother. it is truly a special relationship, and thats coming from someone who comes from a huge family. when i made the decision to take some time off and go live in thailand, she was beond herself. wouldnt even discuss it when people brought it up. mind you, this is a lady that, until she went to disneyworld in march, had not left massachusetts in 10 years, the last time she came to see me in nyc. i was talking to my old boss, who gave me my 1st trading job, and i told him i had been in thailand for the last year. he didnt even know anything about it. was asking me all kinds of questions. this is a guy who has made probably 10-15million dollars over the last 10 years. i get all the ignorant questions and i just ignore them. i know who i am and what i do, and how i live my life, so i dont have to answer, or explain my desire to travel to anyone
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#50
30-10-2005, 18:48
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Paul,
About my post.... Uhhhh....Just kidding really. It's ok if you and I come back to Thailand. Been following your messages a bit. Sounds like you've had a wonderful time. I arrived back home in USA, on Oct 18, after a terrific 5 week tour. Immediately, I went into shock and depression. I'll be returning to LOS, for Xmas and New Years. Nice to have seen you earlier, in BKK. Take care, and keep in touch. Pablo
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#51
31-10-2005, 14:27
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Your older sister sounds just like my older sister. But even she went to Europe a couple times when she was young. She thinks I am completely nuts for going to Thailand every year, as do most of the relatives. But they just figure I got the "Uncle Barney" genes, since he was a merchant marine who spent his whole life travelling, and he drank, f*cked, and fought in every major port in the world, and told some great stories about it!!
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
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#52
31-10-2005, 22:11
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Pablo, I thought your first post was great...it made me laugh and think for a second...I'm glad that we have both places on this planet...Looks like you've been enjoying yourself as well. You know I have more culture shock when I return to the states then when I enter los...funny but true.
__________________
J.K. Livin Heywood
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#53
02-11-2005, 15:39
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Same same for me!  "Cause when you get to LOS, it is just a matter of slowing down, relaxing, letting the tension melt away, and remembering how to smile like you really mean it!  Going back to US is the reverse, gearing up. tensing up, getting the psychological body armor back in place!  It is really remarkable how how some people can live here with such a paucity of sanuk in their lives!!
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
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#54
19-11-2005, 13:23
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Very late in weighing in, but I think urtheman and JayBee have definitively slaughtered this one. It's more a function of geography/opportunity/co-option/economic constraints than a general lack of curiosity about the world (don't judge us by that jug-eared simpering quarter-wit in the White House) that keeps US-ers at home.
I actually kinda hope we all stay at home. Saddens me to say that in my lifetime I may see the US sink to a second-rate country incapable of accomodating the ambitious/curious like we've been able to thusfar. I first went overseas b/c the US NAvy sent me to Mombassa. G-d forbid more Americans get to Kenya and see that they can have a go anywhere in the world. They'd probably never come back, the nation suffering as a result.
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