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#1
06-12-2005, 20:53
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Monk Etiquette
Hi all, just looking for a bit of advice. Only 17 days to go, and as part of my next tour I will be meeting the GF's father, who is a monk. I think I'm going to a temple with the GF to meet him, but I'm unsure of any traditions or rules I should observe with regards to the meeting. Does anyone know of any does and dont's for meeting a monk? Thanks in advance.
 
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#2
06-12-2005, 21:10
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Don't know too much, you must obviously be humble, wai with hands at nose, don't think you are supposed to touch them anywhere or eat or drink there stuff. Normal etiquette about soles of feet, taking shoes off, wear trousers and shoes and not showing heels etc but I wouldn't worry too much Gf will tell you most things and they will be tolerent cos you are a farang. Remember he's high ranking but so are you.
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If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#3
06-12-2005, 22:12
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You must not stand over him if possible, if he sits - you sit, preferably lower. His head should be higher than yours. Wai and be polite but you will be forgiven your heathen farang mistakes so do not worry too much - they will appreciate the effort.
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#6
07-12-2005, 00:24
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Yeah I found that as well Andy, monkeys arn't like dogs that dont like their heads patted.
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#7
07-12-2005, 04:06
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Don't try to stare them out, they will bite 
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#8
07-12-2005, 04:12
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Just remember one thing, they are people just like you. Yes they are much respected and looked up to, but they still enjoy a good joke, a good chat, thats assuming your GF's dad speaks english. As hobbsy said, dont worry too much about it, just follow your GF's lead and you will not be expected to know and understand what to do. You may well find there will be other Thais around, who will be watching you, but again dont worry about them, they will be more interested in the fact that you are actually there, then what you do. Just go with the experience and enjoy yourself.
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#9
07-12-2005, 13:29
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Actually mate, I've had a similar experience and what the other BMs have said is kind of true as far as them generally being forgiving about our strange farang ways. But if he's high up he will have expected your GF to have coached you pretty seriously about what it means to meet a bloke of his stature. 1. As someone else said, your head should NEVER be higher than his. if he's 4 feet tall and you're 6 foot, walk on your knees as a sign of respect. This is vital!!! 2. The shoes and long pants thing is also important and you'll probably already know this. What you need to do on such an important occasion though is when you take off your shoes, they have to pointed in a certain direction. This will depend on the orientation of the wat. If the main door faces east, you align your shoes at the front of the wat in a northerly direction. If it faces north, you point them west. You get the idea, whichever way the wat faces point your shoes 90 degrees anti-clockwise away from the door. I believe this is to deflect bad energy or something. Pants. Roll the bottom of your pants up in a cuff three times as a sign that you have no coverings on your feet. 3. The wai. Practice this like your life depends on it. There is a way to do the wai for important monks. The nose is the spot where it finishes but what you have to do is start at the lowest point that you would wei to a lowly person, but your hands move up through all the positions for the various levels of society until they finish at the nose. the movement should be very fluid and take about three seconds from go to woah. At the same time as the hands are going up, your body should be bending at the waist so that your head is moving down to your hands. It sounds a bit easier than it actually is to get right but if you do nail it, you'll be looked upon very very favourably. A lot of novice monks take years to get this right. If you fluff it it will probably be OK unless you poke yourself in the eye with your thumb, in which case it's an insult. be careful. 4. He will probably ask you questions via an interpreter (another monk of lower rank of course) if he can't speak very good English. Truth be known, if he can understand Irish all this will be academic. But if you have an interpreter, have your girlfriend keep an ear out for what he's saying. It's extremely unlikely but possible that the monk he uses to translate will try to put you in a bad light and blame it on not translating very well if challenged. Thats if you get a chance to explain yourself twice!! Whose word is he going to believe anyway? A farangs or a fellow monk? It will pay to get on the good side of the monk who is going to translate. Timing will be difficult here but if you get a chance, offer him a pig for his family. If you can't get a pig three to six chickens will also do the trick. better yet, have your GF make the offer as she will know how to approach it. It is a bribe after all. This should keep him sweet and make sure that the father-in-law hears exactly what you've said and not something like "you plan to be a hippie bum hanging around sleazy gin-joints until something better than his daughter comes along" 5. If you seem to have gone well when you finish make an offer to help the way by donating time/money/something else. Let the father-in-law decide but give him some basic cues as to what sort of donation you want to make. Being monks they obviously prefer to be offered labour as this shows a more determined committment than just flashing a few pounds/dollars about. The dirtier the job the better as this will demonstrate your piety. One of the jobs the novices hate doing is the cleaning. Possibly the best thing to offer is to be at the wat every morning of your stay before they start meditation at around 3am to clean the main mediation hall. It depends on how far you want to go to create a good impression but this would be a pretty good start. if you can't get there for 3am, maybe you could help the novices wash up after meals and the like. 6. Don't wear any flashy jewellery. 7. Have a good scrub before you meet him but don't wear any after shave or deodorant as this might interfere with the smell of the incense in the wat. 8. It might pay to read up a bit about the Buddha so you'll know the basics if he asks you. he'll probably guess that if you're Irish it's a chance you might be Catholic, in any case some form of Christianity, so it would pay to learn where the tenets of Christianity and Buddhisnm intersect. There are dozens of corresponding beliefs so this would demonstrate to him that spiritualty is important to you. 9. Offer to get him laid. This is a last resort and should only be used if it looks like it's really going to pot. It might be a good idea to find out what he prefers too!!! You know what I mean. 10. if you do any of the above, as he's showing you the door just explain that DJ Dave has far too much time on his hands and shouldn't be allowed near the internet.  Actually, I'd reckon what the other blokes said is pretty well spot on. They tend to forgive us for not knowing what goes on. Good luck and hope it goes well. I can see why you're a bit nervous. I get a bit funny whenever I make a food offering in the morning. Not knowing what to do and all.
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#10
07-12-2005, 13:55
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On my second tour, I attended the ordination of a young monk at a monastery outside of Chiang Mai in the country side. It was quite fascinating, and after the ceremony, they had a great feast there on the monastery grounds.
During the ceremony inside the Bote(monk's chapel), it was all very, very serious. No talking, smiling, or joking. And most of all, no cameras!!! They did allow some picture taking, but we gave the cameras to a Thai lady, who understood the etiquette for taking pics, when it was OK, when not, and what was OK to photo. We were told that we were not allowed to, because there was no allowance for screw-ups. Once the ceremony was over, and we were outside, the people were all quite wonderful. They treated us as if we were family, and the monks were very friendly, as well.
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown. 
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#11
07-12-2005, 14:11
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The Way to Wai
Here is a close personal friend of mine demonstrating the correct way to wai. I suggest you take careful note of his proper wai-ing form!
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
Last edited by JayBee : 07-12-2005 at 14:14.
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#12
07-12-2005, 14:18
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Thats not the correct way to wai a monk.
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#14
07-12-2005, 17:00
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Well lads, thanks for the interesting advice.
Much appreciated. Hopefully won't make to much of a fool of myself now.
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#15
07-12-2005, 22:21
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Don't worry about it, relax. My gf's dad is also a monk in high standing, you already have been warned of the worse things you could do, so relax and enjoy....Don't expect a normal father daughter meeting as this won't be the case. I have been fortunate to spend a good amount of time with her father, I have found him to always enjoy a good laugh and besides monks are easy going types...show your girlfriend respect by following her lead and you'll be fine...Now don't go around his wat holding hands and the normal stuff like that and all will be quite painless. Don't forget to smile Let us know about your experience afterwards..
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J.K. Livin  Heywood
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#16
08-12-2005, 04:08
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Just a reular wai, because my buddy Ronald was wai-ing me when I took the pic!!
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
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#18
08-12-2005, 04:13
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One other thing. Don't offer to buy a monk a beer or food after Noon. And don't ever eat food in front of a monk.
 This is considered extremely rude, on account of the fact that they cannot eat or drink anything after twelve noon for the rest of the day until 6:00 AM the next morning!
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
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#19
08-12-2005, 08:15
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A story slightly related to topic. Gf & me was in the airport at Ubon and gad arrived early, there was a Thai Air flight going one hour before ours so i decided to give it a try and just nonchalantly board it, we got through the boarding proceedure without them noticing we had boarding cards for the later flight, went to the same seats as our tickets and how lucky they were empty on a pretty full plane, sitting next to the window was a monk,(this was why the seats were luckily empty because they had tried to keep him on his own) I motioned for gf to seat down because of my height I like the aisle seat, but she gave me the biggest look of fear and totally refused. As we sat down he put a cushion between me and him to stop our arms touching. So I asked gf why she had refused to sit in the middle seat and she explained that a thai girl cannot sit next to a monk, i asked what would have happened if she had been with a girlfriend and not me? and she replied that she would have had to have asked another male passenger to sit next to him. Then I asked why he had put the cushion between us and she told me because I could not touch him, so i explained that because of the width of the chairs and mine and his shoulder width we were actually touching shoulders above the cushion, to this information she looke deven more scared and told me to quickly move sideways. When they served us food, they only served him 4 glasses of drink (orange, water, milk and coke), she explained to me that a monk vcannot eat after 12, as the stewardess passed his tray across Im went to take it to pass it on to him and another look of fear was on the stewardesses face and my gf again, she then explained that as a falang i wasn't allowed to touch the tray his drink was on.
This is'nt a funny story just left me thinking wow whats all this about and how much more is there to learn about whats right and wrong with a monk? so Stiofanderry, best of luck mate, I am sure therefore that they will tolerate a few mistakes because how can any farang remember all the do's and dont's in one lesson.
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#20
08-12-2005, 08:26
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I think a TG would never sit next to a monk on a plane, because they can never touch a monk(or vice versa). Strictly taboo. I didn't know that it applied to farangs, and I am not sure that it does in all cases. What really does surprise me is that a female stewardess would hand a monk a drink or a tray. Normally, it is forbidden for a woman to hand anything to a monk. She would hand it to a man and then he would hand it to the monk. So, I would have thought that it would be more appropriate for her to hand it to you, then you hand it to him. They must have special exceptions to the rules for when monks go on airplanes!
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
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#21
08-12-2005, 08:32
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Was seated next to a monk on a Singapore Airlines flight. I took all his drinks from the flight attentant and passed them onto him, no problems and he appreciated it. Needless to say we had a good old chat.
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#22
08-12-2005, 09:35
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Jaybee, Teerak said she wasn't allowed to sit next to a monk and would have to get a man to sit there and if she had been with a female friend she would have to ask a man to change seats with one of them, it definately also applied to me about non-touching because he put the cushion between us as I sat down. Now you got me doubting myself because I'm questioning my memory as to whether it was a male steward or female, but I was definately not allowed to hand the tray to him. Don't think it was special rules applying to airplanes, would like another BM's input here, perhaps someone could ask their gf?? I will also email mine to ask if its a personal her thing or definate etiquette rule.
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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