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#37
01-05-2006, 00:45
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Good one, Steve! 5555555555555...  But seriously, a lot of Western movies and TV shows, i.e., cowboys and Indians, are set in Mexico, for example, Fistful of Dollars, Zorro, The Cisco Kid, and the many films about Geronimo. Mexico was very much a part of the Old West, which was not confined to the US, but included parts of Mexico. In fact, California and all of the Southwestern states were part of Mexico until about 1850.
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LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown. 
Last edited by JayBee : 01-05-2006 at 01:51. 
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#38
01-05-2006, 01:01
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OK. Here's what Wikipedia has to say: "There is no objective definition of Third World or "Third World country" and the use of the term remains controversial. In geographical and political academia, it is almost never used, as it is seen as being out of date, colonialist, othering and inaccurate. The term gained widespread popularity during the Cold War when many poorer nations adopted the category to describe themselves as neither being aligned with NATO or the Warsaw Pact, but instead composing a non-aligned "third world" (in this context, the term "First World" was generally understood to mean the United States and its allies in the Cold War, which would have made the East bloc the "Second World" by default." "During the Cold War there were a number of countries which did not fit comfortably into the neat definition of First, Second, and Third Worlds. These included Switzerland, Sweden, and the Republic of Ireland, which chose to be neutral. Finland was under the Soviet Union's sphere of influence but was not communist, nor was it a member of the Warsaw Pact. Austria was under the United States' sphere of influence, but in 1955, when the country again became a fully independent republic, it did so under the condition that it remained neutral. None of these countries would have been defined as Third World despite their non (or marginally) aligned status." Need I go on. So, according to Wikipedia, Sweden, Switzerland, Ireland, Finland, and Austria were not "First World" countries. How then can you equate the word "Western" as meaning "1st world" countries? Aren't Ireland, Sweden, etc., Western countries?  I submit to you that your terminology is obsolete. Again, "gringo" would have been a better word to use in the post in question. Thanks for your time and patience! 
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LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
Last edited by JayBee : 01-05-2006 at 01:04.
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#39
01-05-2006, 01:17
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My point exactly. If the term "West" referred to highly developed and industrialized countries(so-called 1st world), then Japan would be in that group, as would Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore. But you call Japan an eastern or far east country, not a part of the "West." Japan has undergone a good bit of "westernization," but Japanese are not Westerners.
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LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
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#40
01-05-2006, 01:27
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Your gut tells you no and mine tells me yes. Why? Because you are in Europe and I am in America. Our disagreement primarily is due to semantic differences. West means one thing to you, and something entirely different to me. In American schools, we all take courses in "History of Western Civilization" and the like. Part of that history is the settlement of the American continents by Europeans, and the transfer of that civilization to America, both South, North, and Central. So, this is one of those language differences, where what a word means in England(and in this case, perhaps all of Europe), and what that word mean in America. It never occurred to me in my whole life, that Mexico was not in the West, and I've been there many times. To have thought that, would have seemed absurd to me. But then I thought that "grass" meant something that lawns are composed of, or marijuana!
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LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
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#41
01-05-2006, 02:00
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I hear ya JeyBee and as I mentioned (and LivinLOS mentioned) the term West is certainly not unproblematic.
Anyway, thought this was a fun exchange. Always did enjoy to quibble over sematic differences. And frankly, I was not aware of these differences between Europe and the US. Interesting. Just a brief question: In my Mexican story what I tried to communicate was that there are differences between developing and developed countries (on a personal level) as to how they greet foreigners. I used the word Westerner, and deliberately avoided gringo, to make it sortof more Thai relevant. Can you think of a decent term that would mean coming from a developed country as opposed to a developing.
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#42
01-05-2006, 02:07
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I guess it just go to prove the old saw that "Ya learn something new every day!" As for your question, I would say the terms "Rich and poor" might be a little crude, and not politically correct, but not far off the mark! Or how about, "white and brown?" BTW, I thought of the term gringo, because that is what I think the guys in question in the bar would ahve been thinking of you as you walked in, and also because it is roughly equivalent to the term farang. The difference being that white native Mexicans(aristocrats with pure Spanish blood) are not gringos,and since there is no Thai equivalent, gringo is equivalent to farang in the sense of it meaning foreigner, but not in the sense of meaning Caucasian.
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LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
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#43
01-05-2006, 02:35
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Well Steve I'm so pleased for you that your life is so good...You live in a big city...and your life is very different to ours. You don't sound as if you have any little encumbrances either, like children, for instance? If you have it seems they don't interfere your life too much. As for Mike and I, we have reached a stage in life where we need a big change...we've been bringing up children for the last 26 years, our youngest is 13, Mike's been retired for the last 10 and for the last 15 years we been living in a small, coastal country town with few facilities like restaurants and bars and other things that cities offer like a corner shop or minimart that you can walk to...the closest shop (a fish and chip shop) to us is 4k's away and closes at 6.30pm. Our town has one supermarket, one Pub and a Club, two chinese restaurants and a recently opened italian restaurant...WOW!! We can do all the outdoor activities that you state...but we're kinda after a little more in life now...a little excitement, people and entertainment. We're buying a place in Brisbane so that when we come back from LOS we'll probably live in Brissy for a while. But we're definately over the quiet country living. We will still have our son with us when we go to LOS...he will go to QSI International school for at least one year. Then we'll decide what we want to do after that, whether it be stay in LOS or come back to Oz.
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"If you want an opinion, ask us...if you want a second opinion, just ask us again!!"  ROTF LOL
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#44
01-05-2006, 02:51
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Before going here the first time a friend of mine told me the same. What you pay for a 1st class girl for one hour in Denmark, is what you pay for a day in a German FKK or for a week with a girl in Thailand. And it the fun in Thailand is so much better... 
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เอริค Next trip to LOS: - not set 
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#45
01-05-2006, 03:12
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At last I am able to contribute to this thread. A fistfull of dollars was actually a ''spaghetti western''. The director was Italian (not spanish or mexican) and many of the actors were Italian, hence the overdubbing in to English. So......... as Italy is a western country (IMHO), and Clint (my hero) is from a Western country starrring in a Western then ...... oh fcuk what was the question??????? Is Mexico a western country...... mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... errrrrrrrrrrr.... nope. health and education are very underdeveloped, so as per my understanding of what a ''westernised'' country is, the answer is no. Exception to the rule is probably Cancun - geared up for tourists (mostly USA) who demand a decent level of service.
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#46
01-05-2006, 06:18
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yep, plenty of encumbrances
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Hi Marcia, Raised they kids by myself from when they were teenagers. Had a mortgage and a teenage daughter (try that for a few years) and a son. We spent a lot of time together. My son left home when he was 25 to live with his g/f in their own house (which I helped them to purchase) and my daughter is still with me. I still enjoy my time with them. To me, this is much more meaningful stuff than going to live in a foreign country just to have a good time. My daughter came with me on a previous trip to Thailand where she met my g/f. They got on very well as they are both the same age. I am retired now and found that I was lost for a couple of months but now I am so busy I don't usually achieve everything I want to do each day. I don't have a lot of friends but all my friends are very good friends and that is more than enough for me. Steve
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#47
01-05-2006, 06:36
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I am unsure what muddying the waters with 1st world and cold war has to do with this though.. The terms westerner is understood by many people and isnt purely a geography thing as people keep pointing out.. Mexico (and central and sounthern Americans) are not westerners in the normal usage of the word.
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Men have only 2 emotional states, hungry and horny.. So ladies, if you see me without an erection, make me a sandwich.
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#48
01-05-2006, 06:38
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Again muddying the waters with no point that I can see... The far east and easterners are not westerners.. Erm OK Well I agree with you on this !!!
__________________
Men have only 2 emotional states, hungry and horny.. So ladies, if you see me without an erection, make me a sandwich.
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#49
01-05-2006, 06:51
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An interesting point brought in by Gez..
I was going to ask if others would say Italy was a 'western' country.. I suspect most would say yes but I could also see a small group that might either be unsure or dissagree.. OK then so what about greece ?? Certainly parts are as poor as parts of mexico.. Greek people despite being from the heart of Greco Roman society which must be the root of 'western' are fairly dark skinned etc.. So would greece count ?? If Greece still does then Latvia or Egypt ?? How about Turkey ?? I am now thinking most would say Egypt isnt but thats my guess.. Very hard to define for eastern European especially the richer Eastern Euro states and economies.. Also can someone from a non western country be a westerner ?? I have to say that the term probably is not inclusive to Asian or Africans.. But say a rich 'near white' person from a country is sent and educated in a (for example) Ivy league or British private school.. Speaking like a westerner, acting like a westerner, dressing like a westerner, and being educated like a westerner, may well carry enough weight to again muddy the waters.
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Men have only 2 emotional states, hungry and horny.. So ladies, if you see me without an erection, make me a sandwich.
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#50
01-05-2006, 07:05
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Mexico..........no..afraid not
The newer countries such as Greece, Turkey and the former Eastern block countries joining the EU is definitely muddying what is the old fashioned sense of the "Western World" ..........I still say not Western tho' for these guys...
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#51
01-05-2006, 11:23
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I am well aware that Fistful of Dollars is a spaghetti western made in Spain by an Italian director(Sergio Leone), and an Italian film crew. Yet, Some might say that this is the most classic Western ever made, although others would probably give that honor to High Noon or Shane. However, the story takes place in the town of San Miguel, Mexico. The "hero", somtimes referred to as Joe wears a pancho, which is Mexican clothing and all but one or tow of the characters have Mexican names. This movie is a WESTERN because it takes place in the West. The part of the West it takes place in just happens to be MEXICO. Therefore, Mexico is in the West! Also, two of the earliest TV Western were set in Mexico: Zorro and The Cisco Kid(with his faithful companion Pancho). Even The Lone Ranger's faithful companion had a Mexican name, Tonto(means "stupid" or "simpleton" in Spanish. BTW, how come all these cowboys had guys for "faithful companions?"
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LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
Last edited by JayBee : 01-05-2006 at 11:36.
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#52
01-05-2006, 11:39
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So we are in agreement, then! Therefore the assertion from Wikipedia that began this debate: "The term "Western world" is often interchangeable with the term First World stressing the difference between First World and the Third World or developing countries" is obviously incorrect. Western world and First World are not interchangeable, because if they were, then Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore would be Western countries. Since they are Eastern countries, the statement from Wikipedia is patently incorrect! Glad you finally saw my point.
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LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
Last edited by JayBee : 01-05-2006 at 11:48.
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#53
01-05-2006, 11:58
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Greece is well known as the birthplace of Western civilization. You remember...Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, the fathers of western philosophy, Hippocrates, the father of modern Western medicine, and Aristophanes, the father of modern comic drama. But, of course, that was thousands of years ago. Since then they have moved Greece out of the Western world. BTW, ever wonder who first wrote that phrase we so oft say, "Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em!" If you guessed Aristophanes, you are correct and get a gold star to wear on your forehead for the remainder of the day. From Lysistrata(411 B.C.), the original line(translated from Greek), as he worte it, was: "These impossible women! How they do get around us! / The poet was right: can't live with them, or without them!").
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LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
Last edited by JayBee : 02-05-2006 at 10:33.
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#54
02-05-2006, 05:44
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Steve...We are well pleased that, at your age, that you have found a meaningful life. If that be where you are now, or somewhere else in the future...good luck to you. We have always had meaning in our lives since the day Marcia and I met...we have continued to add meaning since...we have not finished adding more meaning. We have plenty of "meaning" in our lives and plenty of partying left in us as well...and we "Mean to Party"  Mike
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"If you want an opinion, ask us...if you want a second opinion, just ask us again!!" ROTF LOL
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#55
02-05-2006, 09:07
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Agree with you there JB.......... but now there would be a fair case in saying it has moved back in..........with the EU membership???.......pretty borderline case for me this one........even tho' I am still just coming down on the negative side "Frogs" to you JB........55555
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#56
02-05-2006, 18:06
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