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#1
14-10-2006, 10:27
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Visiting vs Living in LOS
Hi guys, I'm rather new to this board but need a little advice here ... especially from those living in LOS.
My dilema is ... when is enough enough to move to LOS. I know there has been alot written on this subject ... and I know flaming might happen ... but I am trying to weigh vacactioning vs moving to LOS. I have searched and have not found anything specific on this issue ... but I may have missed it. I have good job that affords me usually 2 or 3 - three week vacations per year ... of which I can basically go crazy in LOS, ie spend like crazy. I'm also at the point that within another year I could move to LOS and live on a more moderate fixed income of around 3.5k to 4K usd per month. I am 44 years old. When I'm on vacation I'm usually out till 4 am ... partying every night ... spending quite a bit of money and having a wonderful time. I realize that living over there, this might grow old (?) or at least might have to be toned down a bit due to monetary reasons. I know (think) that partying will tone down after living over in LOS for a while, but my question is .... is it better to spend 2 or 3 times per year over there ... spending like a wild man ... or is it better to spend full time over there in LOS, living within a budget. I know this is highly dependent on the individual, but I would really like to get the opinions of the BM's that have been living in LOS for a while and how there lives vs expectations changed over time. Thanks for the consideration. 
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#2
14-10-2006, 13:25
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Cannot answer for you but my choice was to come and live here full time, been here now 9 months and can honestly say I have enjoyed every day of the 9 months. I go to Patong a couple of nights a week and still look forward to going, there are the expats and also the continual turnover of holiday makers which reunite you with old friends and introduce you to new ones all the time. Living here is far easier, nil stress, and continually something new.
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#3
14-10-2006, 16:39
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Thanks Dodger,
Yeah, at some point I realized how much money I'm spending coming to LOS 3 or 4 times a year and think, wow, that could pay for 6 months living in LOS. Maybe not 6 months living like a tourist ...but certainly 6 months of very comfortable living. It's a tough decision to say, Ok, I have enough saved up and I'm ready to do it. I don't know why it's so tough ... maybe because I've been working all my life and that's all I know .... but I also know that when I'm away from LOS ... that all that I think about is my next trip.
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#4
15-10-2006, 00:11
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I cant see why you would get flammed for this.... Its a very hard decision to make... Before you make any decisions just a couple of uestions first 1. Have you read about visa requirements? 2. Have you a source of income while living in LOS. 3. If not have you a set timeframe of hhowlong you would live in LOS 4. HAve you found any specific location you have in mind to live (i am assuming Phuket but you never know) 5. the most important question.... Should all go wrong over there do you have anything to fall back on. These i think are some important questions you need to answer and maybe a solution is to go to los for a time peiod of 6 months and see if it works out. If not maybe you wont lose a lot and if it does then see then... Just an idea for you but reading from what you said you have gone out there a lot but only for 2-3 week periods... Spending a long time out there i.e 6 months will help you make your decision better.... Just my 2 cents tho
__________________
Life is like a box of chocolates..... you go to Thailand and get greedy 
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#5
15-10-2006, 00:38
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mdt,
I made the decision to go and I am in similar shoes as you are. When is enough, enough for me? Last year is the answer. I'm tired of working for the "man". I've helped make millions of dollars for greedy company owners, whether publicly traded companies or venture capital backed start ups. I'm tired of working until May of each year before my paycheck is all mine. I'm being taxed to the gills and so are you. And look where our tax dollars go. I don't want to look in the mirror one day, have a big bankroll, and be too old to enjoy it. I watched my father do that, but that's his choice. He's happy. To address cybernator's good q's: 1. I have a non-imm B, multiple entry 2. dividends from closed end stock and bond funds 3. as long as I feel comfortable there 4. Patong Beach to start, then maybe Chiang Mai 5. many fallback plans, including going to Cambodia, where it is a stage like Thailand was 40 years ago. My concerns are inflation, and exchange rates. But, I can always come back to the US, work 4 months and haul back a bag of cash to live the rest of the year in Thailand, buy a car, flat screen TV, etc. I probably will "want" to come back anyway. I suspect being in Thailand 24/7 can get daunting sometimes, and I want to keep my "edge" by continuing to work a bit. Regards, The TanMan
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#6
15-10-2006, 00:44
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Well 3-4k usd per month is certainly doable - if you could live reasonably modestly.
However, what is the source of this income? Is it for life - if not it will eventually run out and you will go home broke. Is it index linked? If not then your 4k a month will be worth half that in less than 10 years due to inflation. Probably quicker than that, as the long reign of the overvalued us dollar is coming to an end, it will continue to fall against other currencies, including the baht.
__________________
visit spiked-online.com
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#7
15-10-2006, 00:44
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Then if i were you and your as secure as it sounds then i would say go fo it and if you dont like living out there then you can always come home.... If you enjoy it as you say you can always come home for 4 months a year and 4months isnt a long time.....
__________________
Life is like a box of chocolates..... you go to Thailand and get greedy
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#8
15-10-2006, 01:26
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Doable? Modestly? 3-4K USD is 120-160K baht! I think this is more than enough, and I would have a hard time spending this kind of cake. Call me thrifty, but 40-120K seems to be the range, so I put together an 80K budget. It's the three G's that are the main variables per month: gals, golf, and ga ga juice. Manage those three, and everything should be fine. Regards, The TanMan
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#9
15-10-2006, 08:47
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All,
I really appreciate the input. Yeah, it's a very tough decision. Cybernator .. to answer your questions .... 1. I am familiar with the visa requirements 2. The income will be fixed around $4k/month after taxes, not adjusted for inflation. However, in 10 years I'll have a pretty hefty 401k/pension that I can tap as well. 3. Not sure on this one ... was thinking of taking a 6 month leave of absence from work to make sure it is what I wanted. But if they won't give the LOA, I'm ready to quit. 4. Location - definitely Phuket/Patong area 5. I could pretty easily go back to my work anytime or work several months out of the year if needed. So Tanman ... on that budget do you feel you're getting all the partying in you want ... or do you feel like your limited. Is it better being in Thailand full time and sticking to a budget than visiting 2 or 3 times a year and not really having a budget? Once again, thanks for the advice.
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#10
15-10-2006, 11:54
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I, like mdt and tanman, ponder these same questions, and am financially in a very similar position.
I also reached the point in the past year where I found myself asking the question, "Why am I working my ass off when I get only 45% of the money I earn and the govt. takes the rest?" It seems just too stressful to work so hard, when at the end of the day, you get so little of the money. Plus the govt. squanders so much of what I give them. The reason my tax burden is so high is that I have 3 sources of income, two of which are considered "passive" by tax law. I make enough from those to exceed the limit at which taxation is 30% or less. Therefore, all the money I bust my butt for working a regular job gets taxed at about 56% IIRC, which includes Social Security, and Medicare, since my tax status is "self-employed." The so-called passive income is not really entirely passive, and I work evenings and days off on that, as well. My goal is to quit my "9 to 5," entirely, which I have already started to phase out of. I am now working more on one "passive" source of income, to build it up to a point where I can either hand it over to a manager or travel back and forth from LOS, as needed, to deal with it. My other passive source is trading, and I have also been spending a lot of time on that this year, trying to improve my skills, with some modest success. Ultimately, I hope to get to the point where I am good enough to earn a living, at least in part, if not fully, through trading, which I could do in LOS, if I am able to exert sufficient discipliine, which is a big IF. In any case, I would have some passive income to fall back on. This has been my plan since 2 years ago, at which time, I was dying to move to LOS, since after each of my first 3 tours of 5 weeks, 2 months, and again 5 weeks, I nearly cried at having to return home, and was sad and depressed to find myself back in the US again. Then, strangely, after a 3 month tour last year, I found that I was quite happy to be back in the US, no blues to speak of. Again this yr, after 3 months in LOS last winter, it was great to be back in the USA. Then I began questioning my plans. Recently I have concluded that I love it here in the US, but it begins to drive me crazy again after about 5 months back here. Then I am eager to return to LOS. Plus it is very expensive to live here. So now I am, first, working diligently on improving my sources of "passive" income, so that I can have reliable, dependable income, and second, learning to be a better trader, so that I can have a source of income that will be the icing on the cake to give me a better lifestyle, and enable me to come and go as I please, both to take care of business, and to have the freedom to leave LOS when I tire of it, and to leave the US when it becomes unbearable, as it always does, eventually. For me, freedom has become the goal. I want to be neither stuck here nor there, but to stay or go, as it pleases me to do.
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown. 
Last edited by JayBee : 15-10-2006 at 12:10.
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#11
15-10-2006, 17:09
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#12
15-10-2006, 17:32
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Quote:
Great article... I was vaguely thinking about such considerations myself... Well more like "Where and what do you want to be doing in 10 -> 15 years"? (I have a fair idea what...)  Last edited by Pad Mc : 15-10-2006 at 19:06.
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#13
15-10-2006, 19:22
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I have been living in Phuket for 7 years now and I never regret that decision, had the best years of my life. I still enjoy being here and will continue to do so as long I can make my living.
However, I dont think Phuket is for everybody, I have seen people lost everything they had mostly due to lack of common sense with girls or business ventures that failed. One guy is in jail because he stole his gf's mobile phone and had no money to pay off. Another relatively young guy died because he started to drink heavily when his gf left him, and he lived here just two years. I see a lot of people coming and going, it doesnt always work out. For myself, even if I had a stream of income like you guys I still think its a good idea to have something to do, a small business or hobby to keep you occupied, I would be bored after one year otherwise.
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#14
15-10-2006, 21:15
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mdt, I will know more when I actually do it! I arrive on 1/1/07 and I have a decent one bedroom in Patong Beach already reserved for 12,000 baht per month. When I am on a holiday, my spending is about 5,000 baht per day (or 150,000baht per month). That's going where I want, when I want, drinking until my eyeballs float, and taking a gal every night. After three weeks straight, the whites in my eyes are yellow, my hands are shaky, and I can't wait to get back to reality. But, that's because I FORCE myself (on some nights) to go out every night. I'm on holiday, and only get a chance to whoop it up twice a year. So, as a resident, even if if had this kind of lifestyle every OTHER day, we're looking at 75,000 per month. As a resident, I'll be getting better deals on housing, golf (PEGS card), gym dues, shopping at TESCO/Lotus and buying food and water in bulk so there are savings that locals enjoy that tourists don't bother with. Also, hooking into a decent long-term gal should work out to less than a month racking up BF's and LT's For me, 80K or less per month will work. But, everyone is different. Putting savings back into the nest egg should offset inflation. Exchange rates are a wild card, but life always has risks. Nicke's warning is a wise one. Have an outlet besides bar stooling. If you don't have alternatives, your life or money or both WILL go down the drain. The TanMan
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#15
15-10-2006, 22:55
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Doing it now
Hey MDT,
I did exactly what your planning to do but with less income. Foolish, yeah most likely. But I knew a day would come when I would look back and say "I had the money, I had the good health, and I had the opportunity but I didn't try to make a life in Thailand". No way could I accept that kind of regret. So, I sold my house at a modest profit and moved to Phuket. I'm not savvy about financial markets so I intend to make a living here by the most common of means--teaching English. Will I succeed at making a life here? Don't know but believe me when I say I am glad I tried! BTW, $4,000 USD a month would make a very comfortable living here. I'm spending $2,000 a month and that's only because I've been a little extravagant with my GF. My own personal budget would be around a thousand a month (I pay only $200 a month at a guesthouse). Anyway, my vote is "Go for it"
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#16
15-10-2006, 23:44
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I can't remember who said it, and I may butcher the quote, but here goes:
"The grandest time in life is when you have the right combination of health, wealth, and time." The TanMan
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#17
16-10-2006, 00:39
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Once again , I appreciate all the thoughts and advice ...
Cotambear, thanks for the link, very good info. Nicke, good advice ... numerous people have told me to be sure and have a hobby or something to keep yourself busy ... other than just booze and girls. Tanman, sounds like your holidays over there are pretty much like mine. I guess realistically it would be impossible to keep up that pace anyway ... probably die in no time (but what a way to go  ). I'm probably about 1 year away from being able to make the move. Goal is end of 2007 or early 2008. I've got the house up for sale now. I've got 3 or 4 trips planned next year of about 3 weeks each... April for Songh Kahrn, July sometime, November for Loy Kratong, and maybe one more for good measure. Tanman, it would be great to meet up with you, play some golf, have a few beers, and hear how your new life is going. Would love to here of all the things that have gone well ... and not so well ... after you've been there for a while. I was a little intimidated of going to My Thai bar last time and meeting BM's ... maybe because I hadn't posted yet. It will definitely be on my list on my next trip. So I guess for the next year I just keep my nose to the grindstone  and keep working towards my goal of living in LOS and if things work out, this time next year I should be getting pretty close  .Once again, thanks alot.
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#18
16-10-2006, 01:52
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mdt,
It would be impossible for me to live there permanently, in the same style as I live as a tourist. Anyone who finds themselves in a bar stooling rut can always move away from the temptation to neighboring Kamala, Kathu, Karon or Kata. Still striking distance to Patong and/or Phuket Town, but more of a hassle to do every night. I'll have the golf clubs polished for your Songkran trip. Post a thread or PM me and I'll arrange a golf outing once you have your dates set. This is the first time I have seen the words "intimidated" and "Mai Thai Bar" in the same sentence. I've only been there a few times (on my last trip), but I found it to be a better atmosphere than most places because people have this forum in common, and some are meeting others for the first time or building on existing friendships. Good luck on your move and preparations. The TanMan
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#19
16-10-2006, 02:27
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Yeah, maybe "intimidated" was a little too strong of a word.
I guess a better description would be "usually too drunk that I wasn't sure if could carry on a coherent conversation with anyone". But then again ... maybe I would have fit right in .
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#20
16-10-2006, 02:33
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That's funny, because it was on my 3rd tour, at Songkran, that I first set foot in MTB. It was crowded, but I got a stool and bought a beer for a pretty lady. It turned out that she was married to a Swiss gent, and was just at the bar to get out the house, have a drink with the girls, and in no way looking for action. Everyone else there ignored me. I had only found phuketinfo two weeks before, at a time when I had sadly written off the possibility of a trip to LOS that year. But reading all the posts got me so fired up, that when suddenly I caught a break financially, I said, "**** it all," asked my clients if they could do without me for 3 weeks and then booked a trip for 5 weeks, figuring that after 3 weeks I could email them that I was delayed a week, and then squeeze in a week beyond that. I was nervous about doing that, but oddly enough, when I got back and called my biggest account, he said, "What? Back already? It seems like you've just left." So, feeling the odd man out(IOW, intimidated) that night at MTB, I wandered down to Black Magic bar, a few stalls away, met a girl there, and spent the rest of my stay in Patong, drinking at Black Magic with her. By the time I returned to MTB, 8 months later, after the tsunami, I had become relatively well acquainted with many of the BMs, and received a warm welcome. The tour that followed was a classic, 3 months spent in Patong, never got out of there, and I will never forget it, either! Met some great guys that trip!!
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
Last edited by JayBee : 16-10-2006 at 15:15.
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#21
16-10-2006, 03:39
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Jaybee,
I think for first timers, it is best to go in the early evening, play some of the table games with the gals and introduce yourself as patrons arrive. Buy some beers, ring the bell, that sort of thing. I didn't join the forum until after meeting a few BM's on the last trip, but I knew OF a few (inc. you) because of the number of posts some guys make and/or their name/avatar is "odd". I had been doing heaps of research for months while I contemplated my move over there. There is a library of info buried in the bowels of this website that have accumulated over the years. My actual first visit to MTB was a few years ago, but that was pure chance. I was just walking around and saw a cute gal. BTW, I don't understand your signature. It is the opposite for me. Steady sex because of being in LOS or having a girl in the states gives me the same problem I had in high school (and I don't take Viagra). I find that sometimes I have to "rub one out" in the afternoon just to sit or stand comfortably. The TanMan
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