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#106
03-02-2007, 16:03
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I don't know when the last time was, that you were in Greece, but I live here, I am a travel agent. I'm originally from Canada, but I've been living in Greece for the past 13 years. The sea around the islands that you mentioned is cleaner than any place in Europe, although Greece has dramatically changed over the years, they do manage to take care and protect their enviorment, the proof is easy to see. In Phuket, there is no sewage system, the drains aren't covered and the first aroma you sense as soon as you arrive either in Patong, Karon or Kata, is that lovely musky aroma of shit, flowing right under you, which makes it's way to the ocean, not a some water filtration plant, but directly into the ocean. This year, Phuket was flooded by tourism and this is just the begining, development is booming, new hotel chains throughout the island - and where is all this shit and piss going to go? - THE OCEAN and on us. Balancing, managing and proper urban planning on a booming island is essential, without it, it becomes an overflowing pot of shit - is that what Phuket deserves? I'm sure first timers to Phuket have no idea of what is and what was, sure, things have changed rapidly but important things are being left behind. If I had the chance, I would move there in a heartbeat, but given everything I saw in my last trip, makes me think twice. I haven't been to Phuket a million times, but my stays have been anywhere from 3 weeks to a mx of 3 months and I'm not blind, I'm not ragging on Phuket, but remember my words, things will vhange for the worse - and it's happening now. Greed brings poverty, sickness and more. Be good - fly high. Elgrande 
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#107
03-02-2007, 16:06
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Greetings ATM. The next time you're in Kata or Kata Noi, go to the center of the beach- in the middle and then tell me what you see, it wasn't a tidal issue, the sea smelled of shit. I was going to take photos, but to be honest, I didn't want to remember the beaches like that. I wish it was a tidal issue, plankton or something else, but in the middle of the beach, was the only place you found empty beach chairs. Go check it out and get back to me, please prove I'm not crazy to others here on this board. Elgrande
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#108
03-02-2007, 16:47
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We all know Bangla smells like ass. But is there really no filtration system? That would sursprise me. What's the facts? Doc
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#109
03-02-2007, 16:50
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ATM, You are missing half of the picture. What you need to do is go in the water and put on a mask and look under the surface. I swim in the ocean almost every day with a mask and fins. As recently as last February, while swimming around the points at Kata and Karon, I could see 10 to 20 meters underwater. The water was clear and blue. Now when I swim I am lucky to be able to see 1-2 meters, a drop of about 90% in visability. I do not know what is causing this but about 1 month ago I was at Lam Sing beach when we had one of those afternoon rain showers. within 20 minutes the entire bay was the color of cafe au lait. It was all run-off from clear cut construction sites up on the hill. Kamala was the same. I have a boat and go offshore and the water is just as bad. You can not miss the bad smell. I'm afraid the ocean around Phuket is past it;s tipping point.' P
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#110
03-02-2007, 18:30
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The pictures were taken mostly from the middle. Only the one with many umbrellas close by was taken from the south end. Here are two more pictures looking south and north from the middle. Clear all around. I think you just must have been to Kata on a unusual and very bad day. I've spent a lot of time in that water and never seen it like you are describing.
__________________
Women with a past and men without a future grope and shuffle on the dance floor. Last edited by ATMwalking : 03-02-2007 at 18:32. Reason: spelling
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#111
03-02-2007, 18:39
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Guess I am just a lucky guy and go to Kata on the great days. Haven't done much snorkling there as there isn't a lot to see. Usually I am looking for waves. Was snorkeling off the coast of Cape Panawa not too long ago. Crystal blue water and some live coral about 5 minutes from shore. Maybe the water gods just like me 
__________________
Women with a past and men without a future grope and shuffle on the dance floor.
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#113
05-02-2007, 15:48
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The water here can be bad I'm not argueing. There is construction runoff. This is a developing island that seems to not afford the sytems to filter as well as some places.
But remember when you pay 500 baht to 1000baht a day for a hotel. Think of the prices that are so low compared to other resort islands, Mikonos, Hawaii, etc. and than think or the taxes collected on the lower fee's. Ah yes the women, but if you live here it's gets less about the women and more about lifestyle and fun. I live here and love it here and will stick up for the place I decide to live, and rememeber we are not on a Vancouver forum or Greece forum we are on a Phuket forum. While I appreciate how well Greeks have maintained the look of the buildings and architecture and retained the charm of villages they do have quite a head start on Phuket (a couple thousand years) I remember when I went snorkling in the water around Santorini (about seven years ago) I didn't see a single fish. I asked a local and he said they used dynamite to fish (whether true or not I don't know) I still think the beaches here are awesome there are so many to choose from picking the beaches with the most development around them of course they will have more pollutents, that's just about anywhere in the world. Phuket is overdeveloping no argument here but again it still is a great place that still offers a great value for money..
__________________
"Start every day off with a smile and get it over with" W.C. Fields
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#114
05-02-2007, 18:18
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I have been to Greece twice and I noticed the difference in the service and attitude of the locals towards tourists. The second visit was a lot less enjoyable than the first. This is somethng that the OP has noticed about Phuket. I don't have any data to hand, but my impression is that places like Spain and Greece are getting less tourist visitors than they were a decade ago - poorer service and increased costs? Elgrande - do you have any views on this?
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#116
05-02-2007, 19:49
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Well said, sledge.
I'm a Pattaya animal myself and only started visiting Phuket 3 years ago, so I don't have any knowledge of how it was before. It's okay by me, I have a blast there. The only major change I noted was after the tsunami. The locals don't smile as much now and have a desperate look in their eyes. I try (but its hard) to put myself in their place, wondering when the next wave is going to hit, depending on a mixed bunch of farangs for their living and no hope of welfare if their lives go pear shaped. So I'm firm but a little sympathetic when the sharks attack. The only people I can't take are the time share touts there, they're a scourge. "Life is ever, since man was born, Like licking honey from a thorn" Louis Ginsberg
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#117
05-02-2007, 20:22
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i agree RR,
the time share, time wasters and the tailors. apart from that i cant complain. just keep walking. ill have to drag my butt over to patts sometime and check it out, along with chang mai. that will be next year for me. i,ll do some research at the MTB while sharing a few drinks with fellow BM,s in april......roll on april
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#118
05-02-2007, 22:11
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Patts is a blast and CM is nice, a bit cooler and quieter. Might be in Phuket myself around April, got to have my wrist operated first so I can get my hand in and out of my pocket fast enough to pay the BFs. Can't think of much to whinge about in LOS, come to think of it, I don't need to think too mutt anyway when I'm there. My nephew (pom) lives in Perth. Never visited him although I'm often in Melbourne, can't stand his wife (classic whinging pom b1tch), you'd love to hate her. I only dream of TGs, especially when I'm trudging through this German snow.
Have a good one.
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#119
06-02-2007, 14:55
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The Olympic Games in Athens, 2004 were a BIG lesson for Tourism in Greece - they asked for too much and got nothing at the end, over pricing, greed and shit service kept tourists away that year. Since then, they have totally changed their attitude, services are much better, standards are very good and prices are within reason, basically, now, you get what you pay for. Years ago in Greece, things were totally different, just as Phuket was and is now, important thing is not to try to fill your pockets in one shot, nor to cut corners, sure inflation is everywhere, and almost always, it's justifiable, but when it comes to tourism, it's a touchy matter, people aren't stupid and there are many destinations worldwide, only problem is that, with thanks to the almighty Malaka (Jerk in Greek) George W. Bush, the world is becoming more and more dangerous and there are fewer and fewer safe havens for paradise holidays - is it possible that people are taking advantage of this as well? Does anyone else sense this? What's your opinion on safety & travel destinations throughout the world? Thailand has always been my number one choice, still is, regardless of the changes I see every year. Elgrande
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#120
08-02-2007, 23:19
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I agree with the poster.
I spend around 6 weeks in the area, between half december till end of January. Ooh, had a lot of fun. If you go for that, you can't go wrong, and I understand guys, who will defend Phuket. Now if you look behond the fun, let's get real, please! The contrast with last winter, when a lot of people hesitated to go to Los, was rude. With less business, people were happy some came back. Little extra's were still giaven. This year, remember I stay in Kata/Karon and move around, I was sadned about the island and the people. First half of the hollidays, I was alone. Took some girl company, but not all the time. Well, even alone some good restaurants, hard to get a table. When I was alone, even other people after me got one because more people were more "interesting", and let me wait till I was off (45 minutes). With all that people, it was more difficult to get a bike. Either they wanted to rip me off, either they were so rude, that I prefered to go somewhere else for my business. In general, bad service, no smile to keep you going, and everything to rip you off. When I went one day at Karon beach, I was suprised to get a warm welcome of the lady there in one of the small restaurants by the seaside, because I was not used to this any more. Well she got more of my business the next days. I reserved a tabe in the sea-hag, wheer I am a reugular customer for years. I was in time, to the second, my table was gone, no appologies and they just went inside the restaurant and left me coldflat on the street. To be honnest, also in the bars, and some I visited before, the attitude, as well as the owners as the bg's was not the same. Found less girls that wanted to spend a nice time with their customer, but prefered to have many one's in a night. Seemed like nothing you did, could please them anymore. Now to be absolutely honnest, this can happen to you in France every day! But this is Thailand remember. The place you like to have holliday, because it is charming, people are nice, like a good laugh, food and everything is cheap and good. For people like us, enjoying Los for 20 years now, it is sad that even here, the charm is almost gone. Crowd is not always an excuse. When I go to Patong, that is not so often, I also go to a small restaurant on main street, cocaonut. I was welcomed as a long lost friend, and the lady even got her husband, because she was honoured that I was still faithful to the place after many years. In some places luckily they keep the good things going! Would you imagine Nicke, not be friendly to his customers, even wacko's like myself 5555? About the prices, I think you still can spend as much as youself decide. It is not cheap everywhere, but if you know the area, you know how much you will spend. Beach-chairs and tuk-tuk, not included in this remark! Now for the water in Kata, I wonder myself. No problem the first 3 weeks. But around the 15th of January, by the time I came back from a short stay in Cambodia, indeed, the water changed dramaticaly. My wife was asking what was going on. Even a fiend who lived there was complaining in a mail when I got back. Something seems to pollute there.... With all this, my wife and I had mixed feelings. We were a bit sad, about the changes. We love Los, but will proberly visit friends in Martinique (That is an expensive place LOL) next year. For our next time in Los, I will try to find a nice area to spend more time, with less tourism and go a few days to Phuket.
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#121
11-02-2007, 11:05
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I think this is a knock on effect of mass tourism and sudden influx of money myself.. The types of people flocking here to make a quick buck over the locals prior who if not Phuket residents where at least long termers.. The lack of a need to ensure return customers by giving that good service and extra friendlyness.. Not saying its bad but its not getting better.. Sadly also I dont think its something restricted to this region alone more connected to the availablity of mass tourism.. By that I mean its not like you can just head to Krabi or another less developed region and sit through the change again, more that its becoming an entrenched idea that tourism is mass market, they will accept any old service or price etc.. Part of the being tolerated over being actually wanted here.
__________________
Men have only 2 emotional states, hungry and horny.. So ladies, if you see me without an erection, make me a sandwich.
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#122
21-02-2007, 18:33
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I tend to think that many expats become a little parochial in their guest country and forget that they too once came as tourists or guest workers. Immigrants to England and Germany (to name just two examples) are happy enough to leave their homeland in the quest for a better life. And compared to the mess they're leaving it is a big improvement, but it's not long before the whinging begins and they want everything to change according to their beliefs or culture. As a Brit I have a better life in Germany but the first important thing I learned, even before the language, was: don't knock their ways, they don't like it and they were here before me.
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#123
21-02-2007, 19:46
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But if 'thier ways' include ripping you off then thats not really on is it ??
This isnt some cultural chasm we are mentioning.. Its being ripped off and dual priced (and its not that bad.. Just making my point).. Part of that I am sure is being priced as a tourist when your not.. Shouldnt live in a tourist area is one solution.
__________________
Men have only 2 emotional states, hungry and horny.. So ladies, if you see me without an erection, make me a sandwich.
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#124
21-02-2007, 20:32
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Agreed, but many immigrants who land in Europe whinge because the prices ARE fixed and everything is so much dearer than back home in dear sunny Pakistan, Turkey and who knows where else. And I don't think you're being charged as a tourist, just as a farang. At least the Thais don't discriminate on that score. The farang is fair game and who can blame them? I'd do it too in their shoes, it beats relying on the average Thai income. Last edited by RobRoy : 21-02-2007 at 20:36.
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#126
28-05-2007, 18:15
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Not meant as a dis, but maybe phuket is no longer for you. Or you maybe more interested in another part of Thailand for where you are now in live. Just a suggestion.
__________________
Women with a past and men without a future grope and shuffle on the dance floor.
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