Phuket

ElectrO · #1 30-01-2007, 10:56

I must admit, I dont really read the news threads like many other people. But the one about legalising rape is just proof how backwards this country is.

The thread here http://www.phuket-info.com/forums/ne...-husbands.html

if you read the news link in that thread, it talks about how rape is ok if you are married to the woman. Also how a man can divorce a woman for committing adultry but a woman cant divorce a man for the same thing.

This country is like 1000 years behind the west.

E

LivinLOS · #2 30-01-2007, 12:07

Yeah I was told that its considered impossible for a man to rape his wife here.. That isnt considered rape.

MrDK · #3 30-01-2007, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectrO

This country is like 1000 years behind the west.

Try 14 or so.
In the US the first state to recognize spousal rape (and make it a crime) was South Dakota in 1975. It was not untill 1993 that all state had followed suit. Today 33 states still have statutory provisions making spousal rape a lesser crime than non-spousal rape.
Can't find the exact data, however, it appears that the British Commonwealth has been equally tardy.
References:
Fact Sheet: Wife Rape
Spousal rape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Back to you comment, it would only have been right is it was made illegal 1000 years ago.

ATMwalking · #4 30-01-2007, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectrO

This country is like 1000 years behind the west.

E

My take may be controversial, but so be it. Thailand shouldn't blindly adopt all western values for it's culture. Most thai relationships work better than western ones IMO, so Electr0 you need to back off a little on forcing your values here.

Perhaps inter-spousal raping is a good thing here. That would be a more interesting discussion to try and understand why. i have heard of thai wives for some reason basically seducing/raping their husband. It was not told as a bad thing or a big secret.

Wasn't it at one point the duty of a spouse to get it on with each other? This is pretty representative of the western stupidity I am trying to escape by living here.

ElectrO · #5 30-01-2007, 22:25

no means no in every language.

You cannot blame culture for some drunken guy wanting sex with his wife when she doesnt want it, so he will force sex on her, its wrong and theres no way you can justify it being right.

E

ATMwalking · #6 30-01-2007, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectrO

no means no in every language.

You cannot blame culture for some drunken guy wanting sex with his wife when she doesnt want it, so he will force sex on her, its wrong and theres no way you can justify it being right.

E

Thanks again for sharing your western values and a typical thai man sterotype as a bonus.

Anyone have insight on why they are playing it different here in Thailand?

Tommychrk · #7 30-01-2007, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATMwalking

Thanks again for sharing your western values and a typical thai man sterotype as a bonus.

Anyone have insight on why they are playing it different here in Thailand?

A woman wrote the article and from her point of view:

The cultural violence of patriarchy has caused many symptoms of gender discrimination which aim to keep women subservient and inferior to men. But they all stem from the same root: the belief that women are mere objects belonging to men, first to their fathers, then to their husbands and, in their old age, to their sons. That their main duty is to serve them. As wives, they then must submit to their husband's sexual will. This violent sexism is sanctified in the marital rape law.

ATMwalking · #8 30-01-2007, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommychrk

A woman wrote the article and from her point of view:

The cultural violence of patriarchy has caused many symptoms of gender discrimination which aim to keep women subservient and inferior to men. But they all stem from the same root: the belief that women are mere objects belonging to men, first to their fathers, then to their husbands and, in their old age, to their sons. That their main duty is to serve them. As wives, they then must submit to their husband's sexual will. This violent sexism is sanctified in the marital rape law.

So why bother to legalize wives raping husbands?

Tommychrk · #9 30-01-2007, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATMwalking

So why bother to legalize wives raping husbands?

To "show" that there is equality between the sexes!!

But of course it does not show that but purely stupidity and discrimonation of females.

ATMwalking · #10 30-01-2007, 23:16

if you were to talk to your average thai man and women on the street and asked "Can a husband have sex with his wife when ever he wants?". What would most of the answers be? That is what we are talking about and perhaps the law does reflect a majority view even if offends sensitive western values.

Tommychrk · #11 30-01-2007, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATMwalking

if you were to talk to your average thai man and women on the street and asked "Can a husband have sex with his wife when ever he wants?". What would most of the answers be? That is what we are talking about and perhaps the law does reflect a majority view even if offends sensitive western values.

Of course but you use the word "can" here. I assume thai men can and do get sex whenever they want with their wifes no matter what she wants.

What if we ask Thai women: Is it right that your husband can have sex with you whenever he wanbts even if you dont want to have sex with him at that time??

I am sure you well get a totally different answer!!

ATMwalking · #12 30-01-2007, 23:47

Doubt it. Thai women are raised to serve and take care of their husbands. If you don't like that, then you need to start to unwind the whole culture.

Tommychrk · #13 31-01-2007, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATMwalking

Doubt it. Thai women are raised to serve and take care of their husbands. If you don't like that, then you need to start to unwind the whole culture.

Sure it is a cultural thing and will not change over night. It does not mean that women would not like it to be otherwise! No one likes to be "raped" or subdued at times, not even Thai women.

ElectrO · #14 31-01-2007, 13:26

ATM sounds like you think rape is ok, because its thailand.

No wonder it has a reputation of paedophiles and things like that here.

Do you come under one of these "catergories" or not? Because I am curious why you think its ok.

Just because the law says he can doesnt mean its right. Just like stoning a woman for showing her leg in extreme muslim countries maybe law, but it isnt right.

E

ATMwalking · #15 31-01-2007, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectrO

ATM sounds like you think rape is ok, because its thailand.

E

Please reread my posts and let me know where I advocate rape, spousal or otherwise.

Laws reflect cultural values. This law is different than you find back in nanny states. I'm trying to get at the underlying reason why. In my opinion every law here doesn't have to satisfy to western values. Being different doesn't make them automatically wrong. The law should satisfy Thai values and interests, especially regarding interpersonal relationships. So what are the underlying values?

How much suspected spousal rape is there in Thailand? Oh, the article failed to mention that.

What about the thai women all over the country demanding they be allowed to charge their husbands with rape? Oh, it was some special interest group wanting this.

I said non-issue as I can't see many thai wives denying their husbands. Part of what is wonderful about thai women, imo is that they are happy to please their man and enjoy sex. Thai couples have have one of the highest rates of sex frequency in the world. Can you say the same about the west?

It's a funny headline, but that is pretty much where it ends. They just don't always see the same problems that you may have back in your country. It doesn't make them wrong.

That is what I was reacting to. I get tired of senseless Thai bashing.

Building an unsafe airport due to corruption and putting millions at risk, that is worth criticizing.

Dodger · #16 31-01-2007, 14:14

And senseless thai bashing is all Electro seems to want to do, why is that?

I can see what you are trying to ask ATM and it is a very difficult subject to try to discuss. I agree Thai women do seem to accept sex as and when the man desires it, they however are not slow at coming forward and requesting it also for themselves.

I read this article as one of those stupid paper things that find some old or strange law to publish. Seen many of the same sort of thing in the Uk and a lot in America as each state has its own little rules which can appear funny when read out of context or without the background knowledge of why the law was introduced originally.

This background information is what is missing and which I do not know regarding this article.

ATMwalking · #17 31-01-2007, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectrO

ATM sounds like you think rape is ok, because its thailand.

No wonder it has a reputation of paedophiles and things like that here.

Do you come under one of these "catergories" or not? Because I am curious why you think its ok.

Just because the law says he can doesnt mean its right. Just like stoning a woman for showing her leg in extreme muslim countries maybe law, but it isnt right.

E

Great, you edited your post after and suggest I must now also be a pedophile. Thanks ElectrO, really appreciate that clever one.

BTW, the reputation is of western guys coming here to take advantage of poor kids. That is why western countries need to pass laws to charge them back home. But thanks for giving a good example of how the west can mess this place up.

Tommychrk · #18 31-01-2007, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodger

And senseless thai bashing is all Electro seems to want to do, why is that?

I can see what you are trying to ask ATM and it is a very difficult subject to try to discuss. I agree Thai women do seem to accept sex as and when the man desires it, they however are not slow at coming forward and requesting it also for themselves.

I read this article as one of those stupid paper things that find some old or strange law to publish. Seen many of the same sort of thing in the Uk and a lot in America as each state has its own little rules which can appear funny when read out of context or without the background knowledge of why the law was introduced originally.

This background information is what is missing and which I do not know regarding this article.

The law may be old but The Justice Ministry's draft amendments to the rape and divorce laws are proposed in 2007!! I find that quite sad regarding gender equality and human rights in Thailand.

ATMwalking · #19 31-01-2007, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodger

And senseless thai bashing is all Electro seems to want to do, why is that?

I can see what you are trying to ask ATM and it is a very difficult subject to try to discuss.

Difficult is what makes it interesting.

When I decided to really live here, I decided to put all of my preconcived western notions on hold. Maybe the west has somethings wrong and they have some things right here.

A lot of the activities regarding temples, spirit houses, and Buddism seems like superstitious nonsense to my western eyes. But I have really tried to approach it with fresh eyes and respect and understand it as the believes of my host nation.

Accepting and understanding the differences is what makes it an interesting place to live. Even if I don't always agree. I don't feel compelled to save thais from themselves and force them to adopt a western belief set.

I feel happier and more comfortable living here than anywhere before. I want to understand why.

marc26 · #20 31-01-2007, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATMwalking

if you were to talk to your average thai man and women on the street and asked "Can a husband have sex with his wife when ever he wants?". What would most of the answers be? That is what we are talking about and perhaps the law does reflect a majority view even if offends sensitive western values.

but the majority of thai girls i have met, a major majority of their husbands also felt that it was ok to brutally beat them or threaten to kill them if they left them
so is that right also?

midnightsun1 · #21 31-01-2007, 16:06

NO MEANS NO. Regardless of where you are in this world.

Ask yourself do you want someone imposing harm/abuse on you when you don't want it. Even if "culture" says it is ok.

Its sad that this allowed here in Thailand or any other countries in the world.

ATMwalking · #22 31-01-2007, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc26

but the majority of thai girls i have met, a major majority of their husbands also felt that it was ok to brutally beat them or threaten to kill them if they left them
so is that right also?

You need to meet some better girls

That's an extreme generalization. At the same time there has been a few cases of girls throwing acid on their ex-boyfriends/husbands for leaving them and being with a new girl. To the best of my knowledge this is against the law, culture, and Buddhism.

I am not advocating for or against rape. My opinion is totally irrelevant. I am purposely not giving one.

LivinLOS gave a great summary of the prevailing attitude as I understand it. My question is, why is that attitude prevalent as it is different than the west. Just curious as to why. If I understand this, maybe it will help me understand other things here.

I'll step out on any further "no is no / rape is wrong" comments. I'll step back in on any discussion of underlying culture/attitudes towards the parameters of acceptable sexual behavior in spousal relationships.