Pick'n'mix-A Job with Prospects

[bayleaf]

Seems to me that the girls who are engaged in the tourist/nightlife industry in Thailand have a good deal of choice about how and where they slot into the industry.

For instance a girl might settle for being a waitress and live on 3000 to 6000 Thb a month plus tips. Pays the bills and if she want's to meet a rich farang the opportunity is there.

Then there's the girls working the beer bars or Go Go's. Basic pay, tips and go with customer only if they like him or think he offer's prospects for the future. Or don't go with customer but cultivate the farangs who are the best prospect with the value added 'good girl in a brothel' selling point. Or go with as many customers as possible and make lots of money that way.

Freelancer's/part timers can work to suit their needs at the time.

So it appears to me that TG's can establish a comfort zone regarding what services they will or will not provide and still make a living. This might mean they are happier than might be expected and there's always the prospect of hitting the jackpot - marrying a rich farang or having multiple sponsers.

Could be worse. Like working in a factory for little reward = bad business. Earning high money in the tourist/nightlife industry = good business.

[MrDK]

You are right in saying that the girls have a choice, if the meaning is - as opposed being forced to do what they do. Of the girls "we" encounter none are forced to do what they do (IMO).

On the other hand I believe that there are a number of girls who get into this line of work as a last resort and believing that they have no other choice. Often this is because of a costly event of a family crisis. Many of these girls with try to resume normal life when matters are sorted out.

[t0rn]

'forced' will always be subjective - is pressure by family for a better life forced?
I believe that once the 'you can work four days and get a months wages' point has been reached it's hard to go back though I know some girls who have done that.

[Dodger]

Originally Posted by MrDK

On the other hand I believe that there are a number of girls who get into this line of work as a last resort and believing that they have no other choice. Often this is because of a costly event of a family crisis. Many of these girls with try to resume normal life when matters are sorted out.

Too much Mills & Boon, family crisis does not 'force' girls into this line of work. They pay what they have, not go prostitute themselves to pay a family loss. (yes, there was this girl, I'm generalising the majority). Big debts they borrow from relatives or hock the family assets, if none, then they pay as they go, at horrendous interest rates.

Actually the more I read your thoughts above the more and more it become a dream world answer, 'try to resume normal life when its sorted out', get real. If it was a problem so great they had to prostitue themselves it would'nt be for a few thousand baht but hundreds of thousands or millions, so how long to repay? and when therefore is normal life going to be resumed?.

Suppose on re-reading your post again 'a number of girls' could refer to 1 or 2% and based on this small insignificant number, yeah you are possibly right.

P.S. I Added that bit so you or JB don't dissect this post and do a multiple mega answer.

[snorter]

Originally Posted by bayleaf

there's always the prospect of hitting the jackpot - marrying a rich farang or having multiple sponsers.

should read: "......marrying a rich farang and/or having multiple sponsors."

[MrDK]

Originally Posted by Dodger

Too much Mills & Boon, family crisis does not 'force' girls into this line of work. They pay what they have, not go prostitute themselves to pay a family loss. (yes, there was this girl, I'm generalising the majority). Big debts they borrow from relatives or hock the family assets, if none, then they pay as they go, at horrendous interest rates.

Actually the more I read your thoughts above the more and more it become a dream world answer, 'try to resume normal life when its sorted out', get real. If it was a problem so great they had to prostitue themselves it would'nt be for a few thousand baht but hundreds of thousands or millions, so how long to repay? and when therefore is normal life going to be resumed?.

Suppose on re-reading your post again 'a number of girls' could refer to 1 or 2% and based on this small insignificant number, yeah you are possibly right.

P.S. I Added that bit so you or JB don't dissect this post and do a multiple mega answer.

Dodger,
I don't recall using the word 'force'; I said 'last resort' or 'believing that they have no other choice'. I seem to read again and again about girls that see them selves in this industry temporarily (meaning as short as possible or for a somewhat finite period of time). That would mean that they were driven in to the scene by some specific need. Whether that be debt, hoping to find a farang man or building "wealth". What percentage of what, I do not know and hardly care to guess, other than to say I think 1% or 2% is way too low.

Put things in perspective; if someone as an example, is in debt in the amount of 30 times a monthly income it would be near impossible to ever get out of debt, especially of the interest rate is high. In the sex industry a girl can (hope to) land 3-5 times the normal monthly income, making it doable to pay off the debt. Especially if the debt is from an event that may not repeat itself, such as a family member getting sick.

Again, don't know the percentage, however, the remainder of the industry population, those who are not there for a specific need, can then be assumed to be there for the pleasure or as a basic career choice.

Now, are there girls in the industry who entered for the reasons I described and then later choose not to exit for whatever reason? I am sure there are many. They may like the party life, the drinking, maybe gambling or drugs and they become attracted to or dependant on that lifestyle, however, the reason many enter IMHO is often more noble.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Dodger

Too much Mills & Boon, family crisis does not 'force' girls into this line of work. They pay what they have, not go prostitute themselves to pay a family loss. (yes, there was this girl, I'm generalising the majority). Big debts they borrow from relatives or hock the family assets, if none, then they pay as they go, at horrendous interest rates.

Actually the more I read your thoughts above the more and more it become a dream world answer, 'try to resume normal life when its sorted out', get real. If it was a problem so great they had to prostitue themselves it would'nt be for a few thousand baht but hundreds of thousands or millions, so how long to repay? and when therefore is normal life going to be resumed?.

Suppose on re-reading your post again 'a number of girls' could refer to 1 or 2% and based on this small insignificant number, yeah you are possibly right.

P.S. I Added that bit so you or JB don't dissect this post and do a multiple mega answer.

i really disagree with your outlook on this
i think a huge majority of the girls are somewhat "forced" into the p4p life
now, i do agree with you that after they get use to the lifestyle and money, that alot of them choose to stay in that lifestyle

and even the ones that choose to go into, id say alot of them are doing it to find a farang husband, more so than the instant money they recieve everyday

i dont want to offend you or anyone else on this board with a wife or serious gf that didnt work as a bg, but a huge % of those girls were after the same exact thing but just went about it in a different way, but to me it all comes to the same thing in the end. you dont find it strange that the vast majority of non-bg's end up with farangs in the same age demopgraphic as bg's with farang bf's
they are all after the same exact thing. financial security

[ub2yoo]

Originally Posted by t0rn

'forced' will always be subjective - is pressure by family for a better life forced?
I believe that once the 'you can work four days and get a months wages' point has been reached it's hard to go back though I know some girls who have done that.

pssST t0rn, don't use that word too loud or JB and LiL will get at it again :-)

I remember quite a deep discussion between the two of what "forced" really should stand for.

[snorter]

marc26 & Mrdk, I think you're both applying very western minds to a very asian situation. Here in the East, the population hasn't been subjected to the same sexual repression that many western societies have, the Victorian attitude to sex, your Baptists in the States...
Sex hasn't got the same significance as it has in the west.......

Working as a bar girl is just a job, having sex for money is part of the job, if she chooses. Not a good job, but a job.......they are forced into it in the same way that we are all forced to work for money, to live, to eat, to better ourselves and yes, to gain financial security. Yes, we all want better jobs and would stop what we do now if that better opportunity came along.

They're doing it because they need a job and can't find a better one. Same as everyone else...they've not plunged themselves into the depths of degredation because of a family crisis and plan to regain a normal life, they've already got a normal life, though not in western terms.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by snorter

marc26 & Mrdk, I think you're both applying very western minds to a very asian situation. Here in the East, the population hasn't been subjected to the same sexual repression that many western societies have, the Victorian attitude to sex, your Baptists in the States...
Sex hasn't got the same significance as it has in the west.......

Working as a bar girl is just a job, having sex for money is part of the job, if she chooses. Not a good job, but a job.......they are forced into it in the same way that we are all forced to work for money, to live, to eat, to better ourselves and yes, to gain financial security. Yes, we all want better jobs and would stop what we do now if that better opportunity came along.

They're doing it because they need a job and can't find a better one. Same as everyone else...they've not plunged themselves into the depths of degredation because of a family crisis and plan to regain a normal life, they've already got a normal life, though not in western terms.

you can also use the same argument to back up my contention that alot of the girls are "pressured" by their families to go work in the bar by saying it is not the same as the west
the p4p is much more underground in the west, so you dont have too many families pressuring a daughter to go into the p4p in the west

[pablo]

It is sometimes a "paradoxical" situation, for girls (families), in LOS.

I still have not figured out how, these (supposed) earnest, Buddha followers, can rationalize (pimping out) their daughters. Clearly, entering the P4P scene, is a direct violation of (at least) one of the bacic "precepts", of Buddhism.

And yet, you'll see the families eagerly take the money, that their "BG daughters", send home. And, knowing full well, HOW the money is made...go off to their temples to give offerings, etc. Being (devout) buddhist's, of course.5555

I won't go so far as to say it's hypocritical...but, I just wonder how they rationalize this, to themselves???


I believe also, that a large majority of these BG's ARE pressured into the work, by family.

Around the village, there's always the local (gossip), passed from home to home. And everyone knows, when a local girl is in P4P. It's the poor Thai family admiring a new home (farang built, of course), that a local girl (BG), is putting up, etc., that provides the incentive for these girls to "go to work".

I also know of one girl, who's family was (literally), about to "lose the farm". It seems, when her mom and dad bought the land (many years ago), there was no "proper" recording, of said purchase. That's because, in those days..."everyone know everyone. All people in village know my mom buy this land", etc.

Well, eventually, the old people are gone...And, up steps the son of the "seller's". (now grown up)
He's in BKK now, but doing some research, discovers NO "bill of sale", or transfer of ownership for the (years ago) transaction. He serves them notice, to pay up (again), or vacate the premises.
Down goes mom, to the bank...to finance (again), the family land/farm. Only, the purchase is made (or re-made), at TODAY's prices. They have no choice!

Now, where are they going to get 17,000thb per month, to make the NEW mortgage payments?
If you guessed..."Send daughter to work in farang area"...you are correct!

Now, if that isn't being "pressured"....I don't know what you'd call it.


I agree with Dodger (to some extent), that some girls really DO like the scene. Partying, drinking, pretty good money, different men all the time, etc. The longer they're there, the harder I think, for them to leave it.


I really think, that most working girls, are really only waiting for (their) farang "saviour", to come along. Then they can have money, security, and do things for their families. So then, the girls carefully protect and take care of their farang (ATM).

In thailand, that's called "love".



Pablo

[jimholio]

Ok perhaps this is a wierd association but what comes to mind is Monty Python, you know the scene where they are attached to the crosses and whisteling "always look on the bright side of life"

No matter how bad things are there is always a few good things aswell and if you look hard enough on those things perhaps its easier to get by and get trough the bad times. I refuse to believe that most north eastern family's wants to send their daughters down to various red light districs and have them work as prostitutes, i guess they just dont see it that way. Once again im refering to my "always look on the bright side of life" theory and thats what i think the family's do.

But i would never call it a job with prospects. I would call it a matter of survival.

[pablo]

Originally Posted by jimholio

Ok perhaps this is a wierd association but what comes to mind is Monty Python, you know the scene where they are attached to the crosses and whisteling "always look on the bright side of life"

No matter how bad things are there is always a few good things aswell and if you look hard enough on those things perhaps its easier to get by and get trough the bad times. I refuse to believe that most north eastern family's wants to send their daughters down to various red light districs and have them work as prostitutes, i guess they just dont see it that way. Once again im refering to my "always look on the bright side of life" theory and thats what i think the family's do.

But i would never call it a job with prospects. I would call it a matter of survival.

Hi Jimholio,

That's exactly what I was saying about "rationalizing".

It's the same kind of (denial) you see with the BG's. they don't consider themselves to be prostitutes.

Somehow, they all get around it, and look to the bright side, I guess.

(it works for me too, heh heh heh)


Pablo

[Dodger]

I think they rationalise it Pablo by not mentioning it or thinking about it, she's got a good job in Phuket, customer services or something like that!!

[Dodger]

Yes Mr DK you are absolutely right there is a girl here right now that was forced into the industry because of parental financial debt which was 30 times her income and she is paying it off.



Marc26, yep we cannot proove it either way and it will come down to your definition of forced into this line of work. Talking reguarly to many girls here, bg's and non bg's they all say, for the easy money. Because it is just that, they can always dress it up with other reasons, they can always make up another reason for themselves if working in the trade but thats the real reason.

Thais do not like hard work, do not like to think about their business too much and this is perfect, sleep, get up eat, dance and talk, go home, occasionally sleep with high paying customer. It suits their lifestyle and up bringings, not much intelligence required, no hard work, do as they want when they want, occasional big face, party everyday, gain a sugar daddy at the end of it.