Is Jungceylon doomed?

[LivinLOS]

Good comments on the design..

If you didnt know that theres the whole plaza aspect behind it and you walked in the front doors.. It would be easy to get as far as closed shops and not bother.. The curve of the structure robs you the impression of size, and as you say the ever increasing number of stalls all trying to pitch at the front make a large open place feel somehow tight.

Also I NEVER enter it from the 'front' as I have transport and am not that side of it.. As you say the taxi touts and aggro tuk tuks make it a problem to stop there, they really lower the tone of the front and take away any drive by parking to run and grab something (try buying a Swensons ice cream cake.. the guards are really no parking no exceptions even for 30 secs with GF in car and engine running).. Lots could be done differently at that front side but its also one of the busiest with most of the places there actually doing viable (I am guessing) trade..

As to the unrenovated places.. I think those are just no money down, pay as you go stalls set up to make some money as they have no longer term ground rents on those places.. They do however mean that people will be unwilling to go longer term high rents with low end neighbours.

I must admit I had missed the opening of the Irish bar and will give it a look.. I must be one of the only expats here who doesnt object to paying high prices for a Guiness in an AC place every once in a while.. If they have to try that little harder due to not having a mollys or scruffys location I could use that.

All complaints aside tho, carrefore has really helped the locals, banking with parking.. I just feel its a little too grand a design to support the amount of businesses given the customer base it has and will have for the foreseeable future.

[Crustasian]

Originally Posted by dbaron

Hi ATM,
Just my opinion but as a tourist Junceylon is a waste of space. I can visit this type of centre anywhere in Australia. I do not go to Thailand to visit this type of shopping centre. When in Los I would much prefer to visit the markets and street vendors than a corporate colossus. I also prefer the bars on Bangla and in the various soi's. Ok for expats for the Carrfour but other than that I would not bother. Yes some of the clothing stores are better than the streets but again tourists can buy this at home. Much better fun bargaining on the streets and getting to know the local people.
. IMHO the place is crapRegardsDB

How wrong you are.This complex has been a long time coming and gives Patong a boost.Years ago it was almost impossible to get a decent selection of basic foodstuffs in Patong and you had to make the trek over to Lotus/Tesco.Now everything is on our doorstep.
Remember that not only Patong benefits but also Kata,Kaon,and Kamala as it is now their nearest shopping centre.I was in there today and the place is busy.All the ground floor units at the front part are occupied and open with some good brand names.The Absolute Ceylon Bar had over sixty people in enjoying their beer in air con clean surroundings instead of noisy dirty Bangla.Next door the new Irish Bar was also fairly busy.
DB what you have to consider is that for a two week tourist it can be a novelty to haggle with the street vendors at the stalls but it gets very old very quickly.Why should I buy anything from guy who tries to charge me triple price and then I get him down to the real price.In any other country that is theft.When I am going to meet someone on Beach Road I don't want hassled and man handled by some wide boy tailor.Nor do I want a timeshare so I avoid the whole area completely.
The complex still has a lot of things to open but when the cinema arrives things will change.There is also a 500 room hotel complete with a conference centre which will be in competion with the Karon Beach Hilton Arcadia.
All in all the Jungceylon will help attract more people and customers into Patong.Granted at night most people want to be hanging out down Bangla but there is a change in the basic tourist demographics and not everyone wants the nightly racket of the bars.Each to their own.

[LivinLOS]

Well I reckon its about time I go and see how much the Guiness is in the Irish place !!

[Crustasian]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Well I reckon its about time I go and see how much the Guiness is in the Irish place !!

I legged it back round and caught up with LiL.He was on the Guinness and I was on the Kilkenny.They also have draught John Smiths.

Kilkenny a pint was 250 Baht.We looked at the menu and it's not bad at all.This place could give both Scruffy Murphys and Mollies a run for their money.

[Bello Uomo]

Originally Posted by Crustasian

Kilkenny a pint was 250 Baht.

My favourite beer in the whole wide world.

But that's top coin for a pint - same same Australian prices.

[sundancekid]

Often wondered about the design of the place myself. My sense of direction is not even equal to a mentally challenged lab rat (norvegicus lobotomus indeed).

Sometimes one of the underground parking places are closed so I have to enter from a different direction. Completely screws up my intended parking pattern. And the labyrinth-like exit still makes my head hurt. As to the inside, I think it would’ve been better having a more natural open “mall-look” to the place. (I still get lost!)

But it is still very much a welcome addition to the west coast of the island.

Difficult to say how it will fare in the future though. I actually thought Central would struggle when first seeing the kind of (expensive) shops in there. And I’m still surprised at the relatively large number of farangs at any given time. Guess some (like my folks) combines it with a shopping-day / excursion to Phuket Town. And besides, there are quite a few expats (and wealthy Thais) scattered around the island that would rather avoid navigating the Patong traffic. That said, quite a few of the smaller booths on the middle level (mostly mobile / computer shops) have had to close and are now vacant.

Still, I don’t think JC is “doomed”. In time it will find its market. But to think that Patong in the years to come will cater mostly to up-scale tourists is a pipe-dream that should soon be put to rest (although I suspect that this was the prophecy of the original investors).

[Captain]

I have the feeling that Sportsworld on the first floor is to big. I t would be better to have all different shops/boutiques. A lot of people don't visit the first floor if they dont need sport articles (or just for window shopping).

[cybernator_uk]

I personally think, in the end, Jungceylon will come good. It's deffinatly a benefit for ex-pats, hell even i used it, but i am just off the opinion that it's in the teething stage right now. Once evrything is ironed out it will come good.

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by sundancekid;

O. But to think that Patong in the years to come will cater mostly to up-scale tourists is a pipe-dream that should soon be put to rest (although I suspect that this was the prophecy of the original investors).

IMHO, it will cater to tourists, expats, retirees, Thais with money, and BGs spending your money!

Wealth has been accumulating in Phuket at an astonishing pace, when you consider what Phuket was 15 years ago. What makes you think that trend will suddenly stop? Even a disaster of epic proportions(the tsunami) did little to slow the pace.The future will bring more and more money to the island.

The future of Jungceylon is bright, indeed, IMHO

[Mr Lucky]

Originally Posted by Bello Uomo

What about the hotel accommodation there. Is that close to being ready? How many rooms? Will that reach even 50% occupancy over the course of the year?

If this project had gone through as planned, it would have been very successful, I think.

Originally there were to be two hotels: a new "five-star" Burasari and a 206-room Sheraton Four Points Phuket. Sheraton wisely pulled out of the deal when the construction on Jungceylon first stalled out over partnership difficulities.

When money came back into the project, there was only enough to get the shopping areas opened, and the hotel sections were abandoned. They are nothing but cement shells now, hidden behind walls of plywood at the end of corridors that go nowhere.

Honestly, I think this project could have worked well for Patong. Central Festival is doing alright, and a large portion of its customers obviously come from Patong.

But, as LiL noted, the rents at Jungceylon are too high. The owners have to come up with a scheme to get retailers into every shop, then the shoppers will follow. But to do that they'd have to lower rents for the first year or two, which would mean no recoup on the investment anytime soon and maybe even heavy losses for the next couple years.

But we all know the owners will continue to nickel-and-dime their way through, trying to keep it open with as little investment as possible.

[Nicke]

Would be interesting to know the rent compared to Central Festival, to make conclusions from that. Central is however more accessible from most of Phuket.

I do think coming high season will be like Hobbsy said, ground floor open. Why would any retailer open now when Patong is dead? And there is work in progress all the time, slowly slowly.

ATM have a point with the bad design on the front building, I always enter from he back and the design there is a lot better.

High on my wish list is a cinema, then I can see all Thai movies with eng subs at eg. 19.00 and then walk down to the bar after that.

[ToTheBeach]

Originally Posted by Mr Lucky

When money came back into the project, there was only enough to get the shopping areas opened, and the hotel sections were abandoned. They are nothing but cement shells now, hidden behind walls of plywood at the end of corridors that go nowhere.

The hotel section is far from abandond. Millenium Hotels is going to open a 400 room hotel in Jungceylon.

Further, in my opinion Junceylon has it flaws at present but I firmly believe that it will be a succesful addition to Patong in the near future. If Patong wants to keep growing as an established destination for a range of tourists it was a nessecity to add something like Jungceylon. Shopping is an important part of a lot of tourists holiday experience and Patong was not able to offer any before Jungceylon. (The T-shirt sales people are not a shopping experience but rather a nuisance).

[Mr Lucky]

Originally Posted by ToTheBeach

The hotel section is far from abandond. Millenium Hotels is going to open a 400 room hotel in Jungceylon.

I hope this is true. Everytime I walked through there last December the hotel section looked pretty derelict. If/when it does happen, you're correct that it will be a Millennium brand - the funds that rescued Jungceylon came from the same Singaporeans who brought us the Millennium Hilton Bangkok.

Originally Posted by ToTheBeach

If Patong wants to keep growing as an established destination for a range of tourists it was a nessecity to add something like Jungceylon.

I fully agree and, if the gov't was smart, they'd step in and do whatever they could to get this project up and running at full capacity by high season.

[ATMwalking]

Originally Posted by Mr Lucky

I fully agree and, if the gov't was smart, they'd step in and do whatever they could to get this project up and running at full capacity by high season.

Thanks for the laugh Would be nice if the government did anything that was even remotely helpful for anything.

If we are pretending, then what the government should be doing to help is:
* finish the patong bypass road - make it easier to get there.
* clear the tuk tuk army in front and side of the mall
* clear the rift raft of vendors in behind the mall that are now using the street as part of their selling area.
* put in lights or traffic signs at the T intersections behind the mall that joins to the market road. many near collisions whenever I am there.
* give incentives for the mall parking to stay open 24 hours.
* get bangla boxing to stop blasting their audio "tonight...tonight" commercial at the mall's front courtyard

[White Nancy]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

I doubt they will ever close or redevelop (too much face lost).. It will be a case of restructuring the debt.. Being an awful return for investors.. Lowering rents.. etc etc..

It does make you wonder what kind of market research, planning, customer demographics, etc they do.. Or if some Poo Yai just says "hey wouldnt a really big mall be cool here ??"

In my experience of Thailand, this is the last exercise to be undertaken.

A couple of years back I was involved (the only farang) in doing a feasibility study into a high speed rail line. Now the first thing you would normally undertake is the "how many people will use it" exercise. From there comes rolling stock requirements, train frequencies etc., and this drives the engineering designs. Thailand? No, the last figures I got, a week before the report was due, were from the passenger forecasting people which were, IMO, wildly optimistic. When I told them how many trains would be required to shift these vast hordes, a new and suddenly much lower figure arrived. Of course this would have made the project uneconomical, so another number was proposed until the figures were thought to be acceptable to SRT. A complete waste of time!

The "wouldn't a big (insert project name here) be cool" seems to be the criteria.

[bangladiver]

jungceylon just adds to the incoherent mess that is patong

i feel sorry for the tourists who book a holiday in thailand and end up in patong

i love living here and can take what good i want from what is on offer but cannot imagine how most tourists must feel having slogged themselves for a year in the ratrace to come here

[odin]

Originally Posted by ATMwalking

Thanks for the laugh Would be nice if the government did anything that was even remotely helpful for anything.

If we are pretending, then what the government should be doing to help is:
* finish the patong bypass road - make it easier to get there.
* clear the tuk tuk army in front and side of the mall
* clear the rift raft of vendors in behind the mall that are now using the street as part of their selling area.
* put in lights or traffic signs at the T intersections behind the mall that joins to the market road. many near collisions whenever I am there.
* give incentives for the mall parking to stay open 24 hours.
* get bangla boxing to stop blasting their audio "tonight...tonight" commercial at the mall's front courtyard

Agre. And for the "tonight ... tonight": It's a joke, and the main reason for not to go!!
Opening a high end hotell will help. A good cinema will be poular an draw people.
High end resturangs and bars/pubs together in one part of the mall will be good. (så a report here that traffic in the bar and pup was up)
I would dropp/have very low leases for 1 - 2 years for atrective buisnesses (brand name) to open inside the mall. When people start comeing it will be easyer to rent the other locations.
The market would be tourist form Kata to Kamala. (Think Thais from Phuket town will go Central) The tailors and tshirt salsmenn are for most people a negativ expirience. But there are a market for shopping, and Patong don't have enough to offer today. JC could/should have have help Patong/Phuket attract av more upscale clintel, and therefore good for development of Phuket as an international holliday destination.
Think Jungceylon is a little bit " If you build it they will come" type of prodject.
But there is market and potensial.

[Simbo]

Well said Crusty. Anybody actually considered giving it a chance- its only been open since the end of December. and is still in a state of perpetual flux. The normal Patong Bashers are at work again. Things like Carrefour are working well and the other stuff will take a while to come on line. It takes time anywhere in the world for things to bed in, moreso over here. Short term people and long erm people here need and want different things- Jungceylon works for me- if u no like u no go its as simple as that.

[TanMan]

Originally Posted by Simbo

Well said Crusty. Anybody actually considered giving it a chance- its only been open since the end of December. and is still in a state of perpetual flux.

Six months is a chance... what more do you want?

[LivinLOS]

Its probably a 20 - 30 year project..

After next high season we will see where it sits.. I really do think the most successful part of the project currently is the baanzaan side.. I think the mega mall part is not making the returns required to pay rents.

[K2]

Originally Posted by TanMan

Six months is a chance... what more do you want?

Another 18 months - at least 2 high seasons - once the 2 hotels come on stream will create more natural biz for the place. Carrefour and the cinema (once opened) will do well. Over the long haul once rents re-set to more sensible levels the retail area will be OK IMO.

[ATMwalking]

Originally Posted by Simbo

Well said Crusty. Anybody actually considered giving it a chance- its only been open since the end of December. and is still in a state of perpetual flux. The normal Patong Bashers are at work again. Things like Carrefour are working well and the other stuff will take a while to come on line.

Originally Posted by TanMan

Six months is a chance... what more do you want?

Agree with TanMan. 6 months is plenty.

It's a no brainer that Carrefour works. But Carrefour is such a small part of jungceylon. You could have dropped carrefour anywhere in patong and it would be busy. But take Carrefour away from Jungceylon and Jungceylon would be a totally empty.