Britons murdered in Thailand

[Woodman]

a very interesting article………

With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there?


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle3326545.ece

[Woodman]

the web link is not working,

Here’s the original post


At least 17 Britons have been murdered in Thailand since 2003 – including Toby Charnaud, brutally slain by his Thai wife. Now, his family want to know why our Government is so reluctant to warn that the 'Land of Smiles' is one of the most dangerous places on earth for its British residents
By Andrew Spooner
Published: 13 January 2008

With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there? Somsak Papai (centre) and Wisunt Samaksri (right) were arrested in connection with Toby Charnaud's murder.

His fingers trembled as he lit another cigarette, the previous one still smouldering in the ashtray. His hands felt clammy and he was sweating despite the chill blast from the air-conditioning. There was a heavy feeling in the pit of his stomach. This was the most terrible thing he had done in his life, and the waiting was the hardest part."

This is the opening paragraph of a short story called "Rainfall", written in 2003 by Toby Charnaud, an English expat living in the upmarket beach resort of Hua Hin, Thailand. Charnaud recounts, with a sense of impending dread, the tale of a British man named Guy who plans to murder his Thai wife. Yet, this sobering parable is turned on its head, as the Thai wife has her husband killed instead.

Two years later, on 27 March 2005, Charnaud himself was murdered in horrific circumstances. The 41-year-old was lured into the house near Hua Hin that he had bought for his Thai ex-wife, Panadda Laoruang, to live in. There, after a home-made gun failed to kill him, three men hired by Laoruang beat him to death with a heavy object. His body was partially cremated in a fire pit, cut into small pieces and scattered around a nearby forest. Charnaud's parents, Jeremy and Sarah, were then forced to endure the insensitivity of a graceless British Embassy, the hiring of private detectives and countless DNA tests to fully ascertain, months later, that the meagre charred remains belonged to their son.

In the gruelling task of discovering the awful fate of their son, the Charnauds discovered a Thailand not seen in its tourist authorities' glossy brochures. Yet what also emerges from the death of Charnaud and many others is the fact that Thailand, despite its popularity with the British, is among the most dangerous places in the world for UK visitors – a fact that the Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) has been reluctant to publicise.

continued on blue link....

With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there? - Independent Online Edition > Asia .

[landofsmiles]

Some of the Britons murdered involved other farangs, not Thais. Would also be interesting to know how many Thai nationals have been murdered in Britain in the corresponding period!!

[JudgeHolden]

Also a figure of murders divided by number of Britons in LOS...One murder in the Maldives would probably make the risk higher there?

Swedish tabloids recently ranked LOS as the tourist destinaton where you where most likely to be mugged. This was complete BS, however, as they only looked at the total number of people that had been mugged. Weighted against the total number of tourists, destinations like Brazil was much worse.

A good headline is worth a lot more than actual fact. Do not know about the Independent though, is it closer to the Economist or more like the Sun in level of credibility?

[sishow]

"Lies, damn lies and statistics" would normally be my favourite quote to use here normally. But I think I will go with "You can prove anything with facts" instead!

[Dodger]

But the tabloid press Si just make up the 'facts'.

Can you see this post by the way??? or am I still on your ignore list??

Your on mine, but I just guessed you would post something here!!!

[ub2yoo]

for more reactions, cross post from last week....

http://www.phuket-info.com/forums/ne...nd-smiles.html

[marc26]

again, ill go against the grain
17 murders of your citizens in a certain country seems to be a lot, no?
i read the whole peace and dont think there is not anything in there that can be deemed sensationalism or not pertinent to the story
he also backs up his story with stats that do seem high, although stats can be massaged to prove your point

i am also taking into account the amount of press in regards to the Canadian man recently killed. i would not categorize reporting in Canada as being overly sensational and 1 killing does get a good amount of coverage


PS- i also quizzed 2 people who travel extensively and asked them what they thought about 17 murders of one nationality in that time frame and they thought it was very high also

[faultytowers]

Originally Posted by marc26

17 murders of your citizens in a certain country seems to be a lot, no?

The article asks "With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there? " yet if you look at "Travel Advice" about Thailand on the F.C.O website (British Government site) they point out :

Five British nationals have been murdered in Thailand since January 2006.

But for me at least a more worrying statistic is this one :

Around 850,000 British nationals visited Thailand in 2006 (Tourism Authority of Thailand figure). The main types of incident for which British nationals required consular assistance in Thailand in 2006 were for: replacing lost or stolen passports (over 750 cases); deaths, mostly from road accidents or related to drink/drugs (over 250 cases); and hospitalisations (over 200 cases). The majority of consular cases occur in Bangkok, Pattaya and Koh Samui.

[StaffsShot]

Life is said to be cheap in Thailand and when you hear of police as well as the locals being fined or even cover ups over murder allegations it makes you wonder.

However if you don`t do drugs don`t get so pissed up you cannot walk and don`t go down unlit areas you are unfamiliar with, then Thailand is no better nor worse than other destinations.

In 6 trips to Los i have only felt uneasy once and that was when a bg i was with walking along Rat u Tit Rd in the early hours said something to one of the lady boys, we were lucky to get back to the hotel in one piece.

[Dodger]

Originally Posted by marc26

again, ill go against the grain
17 murders of your citizens in a certain country seems to be a lot, no?
i read the whole peace and dont think there is not anything in there that can be deemed sensationalism or not pertinent to the story
he also backs up his story with stats that do seem high, although stats can be massaged to prove your point

i am also taking into account the amount of press in regards to the Canadian man recently killed. i would not categorize reporting in Canada as being overly sensational and 1 killing does get a good amount of coverage


PS- i also quizzed 2 people who travel extensively and asked them what they thought about 17 murders of one nationality in that time frame and they thought it was very high also

Don't think you are going against the grain Paul, I totally agree on first reading 17 seems a high number, but then I start wanting to know statistics to make a comparison with that number, how many Brits are here in any one year, what % is that number, how does that compare to other destinations. What about other nationalities, this figure could be very low compared to other countries, increasing the actual danger level here or it could be way out of proportion to other countries, decreasing the danger level.

Faulty details 250 deaths from road accidents in one year, this also seems amazingly high and at the same time, decreases my amazement at the initial number of 17 murders over several years.

Think stats are always best viewed with as many other alternative stats to be able to make a judgement.

[faultytowers]

This thread made me curious about British "murders" in other 'tourist' countries , a quick search brought up this question asked in the House of Commons in 2004.

British Tourists (Murders)

Mr. Simmonds: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many British tourists were murdered in each year since 1995, broken down by country.

Here are the results (3rd section).

OK , it is 4 years old but there are a few places you would not expect.

[Dodger]

And quite a few countries that have much higher numbers than Thailand over the same period.

It also concerns me with the countries where it happens every single year, France for example?

Heh Paul, ask your two friends if they think well over 70 is a lot of one countries tourists over 5 year period!!! 555555555!!! only joking to make my point from my previous post, numbers need more numbers and explanations to make sense, if you just heard America was by far the most dangerous place in the world for Brits to go, based on one set of facts from one chart without any comparison or explanation, your conclusions could be wrong??

[Dupree00]

Originally Posted by faultytowers

This thread made me curious about British "murders" in other 'tourist' countries , a quick search brought up this question asked in the House of Commons in 2004.

Here are the results (3rd section).

OK , it is 3 years old but there are a few places you would not expect.

70 murders in the USA in 2001. Somebody still thinks the Revolutionary War is on.

[snakebite911]

Originally Posted by Dupree00

70 murders in the USA in 2001. Somebody still thinks the Revolutionary War is on.

Yes, Osama bin Laden.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Dodger

And quite a few countries that have much higher numbers than Thailand over the same period.

It also concerns me with the countries where it happens every single year, France for example?

Heh Paul, ask your two friends if they think well over 70 is a lot of one countries tourists over 5 year period!!! 555555555!!! only joking to make my point from my previous post, numbers need more numbers and explanations to make sense, if you just heard America was by far the most dangerous place in the world for Brits to go, based on one set of facts from one chart without any comparison or explanation, your conclusions could be wrong??

ummmm.....9/11
67 british citizens died on 9/11

actually besides US citizens, british citizens were by far the most killed, Japanese 2nd at 23
suprising, i never saw too many dribbling fools around the bars in the financial district 555

[sishow]

Originally Posted by Dodger

But the tabloid press Si just make up the 'facts'.

Can you see this post by the way??? or am I still on your ignore list??

Your on mine, but I just guessed you would post something here!!!

I cant read this quote, but Im guessing thats it about my post as its directly under mine........ And my crystal balls tells me its about "FActs" or something!

As I think the debate progressed to underneath (as I have only taken a quick gander at them!) I was saying more about the application of of facts and figures and the way they can be interpreted.

Its like the old question of: What is the most dangerous common sport to play? American football, rugby, paragliding, football etc etc.

Well (a few years ago anyway before Mike or DK start bringing up figures!) according to the statistics it was Squash. Not because of the twists and sprains you can get doing it. But the amount of fatalities that occur due to the age of players and the cooprate image that you have to be seen to play, like golf, to go up the company. So lots of old, unfit men were starting to play, then droping dead of heartattacks.

If your good Bernie, I might take you off the ignore list, but Duncan never!

[Minder]

Originally Posted by Woodman

a very interesting article………

With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there?


With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there? - Independent Online Edition > Asia

__________________________________________________ ____________

Thailand the most dangerous?
Now the second most dangerous place for Poms according to this article Holidays from hell is Australia.

Well, personally Thailand was a surprise as the Government don't pay a bounty for the hides there.....maybe they are exporting them.

Enjoy.

__________________
"Heaven holds a sense of wonder...and I wanted to believe..."

[mars]

Originally Posted by Woodman

a very interesting article………

With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there?


With so many Britons murdered in Thailand, why does our Government not warn of the dangers faced there? - Independent Online Edition > Asia

With so many people killed on the streets of Britain these days I guess the gov should have more warnings for dangers faced walking the streets of our own country let alone abroad.

I feel safer walking the streets of Thailand. Except for trying to cross the road