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#1
03-07-2009, 15:53
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Superior Farangs...
Recently read this post on TV, which explains, in my opinion nicely written, exactly how I see it happening as well...I just don't have that skill to say it in such a nice diplomatic way:-) ** Rant warning ** Proceed with caution as my opinion may sound like a rant to you. Ok, I have to get this off my chest. It never fails to amaze me how negative and cynical the expats community in Thailand can be. I know that I have to be fair about this, and I definitely hope to believe that most farangs in Thailand are nice and friendly and are willing to embrace the Thai culture since they have decided to settle or work here anyway. But every time I browse through their forum at thaivisa.com, especially threads concerning the Thai people, the new airport and Bangkok in general, I never fail to come across many sarcastic, cynical and harsh comments about anything and everything associated with Thailand. We all know that our country is imperfect in many ways and we ourselves aren't too happy with a lot of stuffs that are going on, but the level of negative-ness found at Thaivisa.com is unbelievably intense and I cannot help but feel a brimming sense of superiority complex among its members. While it is heartache to read some of the strong opinions and derisive words, I simply cannot help but think why would anyone be so sour over a country and still choose not to pack and leave (since most members there seem to have made it clear that countries like Singapore, Malaysia are so much better than here or that their country of origin (European countries / America / Australia) are so much greater than Thailand). There are plenty of examples of degrading jokes directed at Thai women, ladyboys, and many are very keen at highlighting the general incompetence and laziness of the Thai people or to pass off "damned if you do and damned if you don't" or "this will never make it" kind of opinions. Whether these are intended as jokes or to what extend that their comments are true is not my main focus here (while I do admit that Thailand and the Thai people will have to pull our socks in many ways), it is my feeling that many farangs there simply loathe Thailand and still not finding themselves taking the next flight out. Can these people be those old pot-belly farangs in shorts and slippers strolling down the road of Pattaya with a beautiful Thai girl young enough to be his daughter? Or could they be those middle-age high-pay / high-bonus BTS warriors in suits from the wealthy West who firmly believe that 'farangs are always right or better'? Sometimes, based on some of the sweeping comments which are overwhelmingly negative littering the mentioned forum, it's hard to think about how these individuals could live a life without secretly looking down upon the locals. No matter who these people are, there seems to be a growing community of expats who migrate here simply to whine or become so full of themselves that they make sure that their acerbic opinions are either heard through 'letters to the editor' published in the local English dailies or at least made clear in an online 'farang forum'. Should this be taking place in Singapore, I believe that the locals would have responded furiously to counter many of their criticisms but it's always unfortunate that Thais are generally not as vocal or are not so confident in their command of English or it maybe a simple reality that Thais and the local expats use different forums as platforms of their online discussion. One of the trends which I have observed at thaivisa.com is the level of ignorance exhibit by many members there on issues related to Thailand. When these ignorance are exchanged at the forum, if left uncorrected, sometimes evolve into an even more ridiculous ignorance or a wild misunderstanding of what is really going on in the country. Part of blame may be due to our lack of communication skills in English, hence the Thai media and the Thai people in general are not very good at explaining in-depth of what is really going on with regards to some issues. This means that these expats are often left on their own to interpret what they think might be happening -- sometimes based on facts mixed with Google journalism and sometimes based on prejudiced views brought with them from the West. If you regularly browse through some of the views at thaivisa.com, you'll be unpleasantly surprised to find how much misunderstanding there are from individuals who seem to have settled and lived in Thailand for a decade or so. I must admit that most Thais don't fancy criticisms at all, be it one brimming with good intentions or remarks simply aimed at deflating one's ego, so it may be time that we learn to live with a bit of 'feedback' from the outsider point-of-view. However, I cannot see how such sheer cynicism, bitterness, pessimism, schadenfreude and superior complex that are often passed off as "jokes" can become something which can easily go down the throat of even the most liberal-minded Thais without stirring in him a feeling of disgust and distrust towards farangs? Don't the people at thaivisa.com ever remember that there might be many silent Thai audiences around who may find some of their comments bordering rude or even offensive? Or maybe they don't even care about feelings at all? Personally, I never expect online discussion boards to be politically correct or diplomatic, so while I welcome a regular dose of constructive criticisms, balanced views and objective debates, I feel that it shouldn't be too much to ask for more culturally sensitive comments from the majority of forumers there. By sharing my views here I know that I am about to land myself in a hot seat. But before you shoot my opinions down, I'd urge those who take pleasures in seeing things not going right in Thailand to pause for a moment and think that regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, this could be the kind of reaction that a typical Thai person would have upon reading some of the dark and tasteless comments that have been cruelly crafted. There's this deep-rooted concept of 'kreng jai' in the Thai psyche, so when one shows restrain while being negative, respect would be earned and reciprocated in kind, and I believe that this will go a long way in making sure that a farang's stay in Thailand a pleasant one.
__________________
  Let's skip New Years Resolutions this year and go with the facts: Germany, WC Winner 2010!
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#3
03-07-2009, 16:08
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I agree.
It's sooo pathetic to hear ex-pats whinging about Thailand and it's ways. After all, no one put a gun to their head. (Although it aint a bad idea.) The same goes for foreigners/immigrants/ex pats all over the world: if you don't like it: FCUK OFF!
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#4
03-07-2009, 16:12
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Sharing the roads with them on a day to day basis....i get the feeling when i get up close,and can see into their eyes,that someone who may have just done the most stupid thing imaginable.........there just isn`t much going on inside their heads.
Usually they`ll laugh out loud when they see the sight of someone showing shock,fear or anger from a near collision.
__________________
 Live Fast.........
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#5
03-07-2009, 16:14
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I'd say we (farangs) are just as critical if not even more so of our own countries, 'establishment', politicians, even celebrities than any cynicism poured out against Thailand (or where ever the host country may be) - this is because we (generally) come from an ethos that discussion is acceptable - indeed desirable and its a marque of regimes that wish to coerce and control that stiffle free speech - however cynical.
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#6
03-07-2009, 16:19
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it doesn't mean i am "pathetic" to moan about things that drive you mad.
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#7
03-07-2009, 16:23
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Sorry If I carried this answer over from the other post, but I think you will find that most farangs who have made the decision to marry a Thai national agree with this post totally. We would'nt have married our wives if we had no respect for them, the Thai culture or Buddhism. I believe that my wife wouldn't have married me if I acted like **** and joked about Thailand, its people and especially its religion.
I love that I am respected by her family and friends and in turn make sure I try twice as hard to return that respect. I dont know if its because I spent 3 of the best years of my childhood growing up in another Asian country Malaysia or growing up in an Airforce family and learning respect as part of my upbringing. Anyway I just hope that we arnt all placed in the same box as the unfortunates who take Thailand for granted. Condo
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#8
03-07-2009, 16:34
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#9
03-07-2009, 16:57
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Quite honestly if Bee had a british passport I doubt I would be living in Thailand, or at least not considering the long term staying there that I now envisage. But the fact is she would get the passport and easy travel rights unless we come and live in the UK full time for years, which is not something I will do either.. Tho if I could get her a passport by being here for summers only thats a big consideration.
If I was a citizen of a first world country that was warm year round.. I would feel very differently about being there full time. I have the assets to have a pretty high lifestyle in the west and am not pleased with the compromises that I make to live in Thailand. The 'Thainess' gets grating when the power is off for the 4th time that week, or the waters stopped running, or the nets down again, etc. In the last month we have been to artist exhibitions, great weekends away, country house shooting, off to goodwood house this weekend. Thats without the 2 biz deals I am now working on, one of which has real money potential. Thailand has warm weather and cheap beer and women, appealing but not that fullfilling IMO.
__________________
A closed mouth gathers no feet !!
Last edited by LivinLOS; 03-07-2009 at 17:03.
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#10
03-07-2009, 17:03
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I've also found a lot of the negatives stem from ignorance, once you live here for awhile and learn to really see things from both sides, you start to understand the fact that its a difference, not as you initially thought a stupid thing. In fact some times you actually see why and how clever it was or good it could be if done in your own country.
You will always compare and question, as that is how we are raised. Whilst I do not agree with everything above, it is in my opinion a little one sided and limted. I can consider my own experiences and understand the sentiment, with which I do agree with.
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#11
03-07-2009, 17:03
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Staying in LOS too long,you can easily lose sight of friends,family and the different way of life you grew up in. It`s also so much easier to get around and get things done (projects,govt red tape etc etc) back home,i have found.
__________________
Live Fast.........
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#12
03-07-2009, 17:09
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Obviuosly we all 'vent' a little from time to time. I was more refering to that seemingly permanent, cynical, sour attitude I encountered from quite a few long timers. "They're all just out to rip me off" was the attitude I disliked most. I'll try and be acutely specific in future. It seems my musing are often misconstrued.
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#13
03-07-2009, 18:16
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i've met a few bitter cynics in my time and most have been, well... losers. If you're a loser back home you'll be one here. Harsh words 555
But there is a big difference between a hurt guy, angry and twisted against all Thai girls and an Ex-pat moaning about the way thais drive.
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#15
03-07-2009, 22:42
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I believe that most Nationalities like to make fun of the other. It's fun and I guess it creates a bond of solidarity. But it should be done behind their backs. 555
__________________
i'm lost my mobile, lady boy take my mobile. i can't connect u
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#16
04-07-2009, 00:29
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See thats just it...I have absolutely no interest in shooting country houses.............tho the 'goodwood' part sounds interesting...555 No , seriously, I really had come to the same conclusion as the OP re Thaivisa. You read a news bit and watch the torrent of negativity pour in...the 'thats it Im leaving ' (yet again) and 'this country is going down the tubes' comments over and over...
__________________
Memory...a side affect of being sober...
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#17
04-07-2009, 00:37
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I played golf in goodwood once when they had the historic thingy going on. It looked really good, loads of people wandering about in plus fours and old stuff, in fact think I saw Dman there in his bestest stuff, fitted right in!!!!!
This is a pointless post, I only made it because I just looked on the top posters bit and one more post and I am the top poster for the time being this month, doesn't mean diddly squat to many but I've never been a top anything poster before!!!!! Think I'm gonna pop and have a couple in celebration of this monumentous achievement. Maybe I'll make another meaningless post to secure my position for a bit???
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#18
04-07-2009, 00:39
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Beggar it, just went and had a look and Marc26 has slipped in with a post and dislodged me.
How many more Of these post can I do?? hope no mods are awake and delete a few of my posts as off topic!!!
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#19
04-07-2009, 00:42
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There is no need to tell us that the post is "pointless" Dodger! As all your recent posts fall under that category!  Well that or bitter..... 
__________________
If women are so good at multitasking........ why are they so reluctant for threesomes?
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#20
04-07-2009, 00:53
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Through living in other countries outside of the US for the last 5 years of my life I have gone through the cycle of being new, getting used to different customs, then complaining about everything then finally getting a relaxed view of everything and just taking it as it is.......
You have overall control of your life. if you dont like something try and make it better....... if you can't then walk away from it. but complaining about something day in and out won't improve anything. Especially in Thailand seems like the pro's outweighs the cons in Thailand.
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#22
04-07-2009, 10:34
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And as for Sishow, I don't drink bitter, mines a tiger draft!!!!
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#23
04-07-2009, 11:04
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#25
04-07-2009, 11:42
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When I first kept encountering key money, I thought, greedy Thais, when they would'nt negotiate away the key money, even for a higher rental, I thought how stupid is that? they've got an empty building, been empty for a while and they are willing to watch me walk away rather than negotiate a deal on the key money. Firstly you have to realise they usually own the building outright, no mortgage, so effectively no outgoings if it stays empty. If they let it for a lower rental, they lose face with fellow property owning Thais. The key money issue is because we have such vast difference for business between low and high season. So someone takes a 3 year deal, only pays a level rental and what happens, in low season they just walk out and do it again elsewhere in the high season. The lease law here is very weak and its very hard to sue succesfully a tenant who walks out, most Thais do not even bother. So take a large chunk of the rental up front as an initial payment, if the tenant walks out no loss to the landlord, if the tenants business fails also no loss. The above is just one example of what I initally thought was perhaps stupid but once here for awhile start to understand the why's. Like why do they leave their properties in such bad state of repair? why do they eat so much chilli with every meal? crikey so many why's have passed through my mind, viewing things as different, so must be stupid, that I could write a book.
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#26
04-07-2009, 11:59
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Key money is part of the under the surface corruption thats endemic here (and most 'LDC's') - the reason you give is the nice plausable one, but add onto that the fact that no tax is payable on 'key money' - so the owner is in an even bigger win/win - additionally a lot of bar owners may well know - you get a reciept for rent of what could be as low as 20% of the actual contractual rent payable - another win/win for the owner. So little wonder that the quality of infrastructure, police, eductation is so sub-standard while the tiny fraction of largely Thai-Chinese land owners using such 'clever' business practices prevail. Is the Western alternative better? All the beuracracy and red-tape, political correctness and health and safty and the onourous taxation. Definitely more transparent and expectations of performance and services is higher.
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#27
04-07-2009, 12:30
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Sounds fairly clever to me Kev!!!! definately not 'stupid' as I first thought, just because it was different, which was the point of the post.
__________________
If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today.
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#28
04-07-2009, 12:44
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Just something I noted:
In line one 'we' are called the 'expat community', next mention is 'the farang'...... That in itself is also a negative approach from the article writer toward foreigners living in Thailand... Or not?
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#29
04-07-2009, 12:51
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#30
04-07-2009, 13:11
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#31
04-07-2009, 13:16
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__________________
Live Fast.........
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#32
04-07-2009, 13:27
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Well, you can call me Farang, I don't mind that ...(I believe we also had some discussion in regards of that already:-) )
__________________
Let's skip New Years Resolutions this year and go with the facts: Germany, WC Winner 2010!
Last edited by ub2yoo; 04-07-2009 at 13:29.
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#33
04-07-2009, 13:28
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Superior Farangs? Dear lord I nearly dropped my monacle whilst reading this thread.
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#34
04-07-2009, 13:46
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About a year or so ago I watched an interesting documentary, The Ten Pound Poms..
It was about assisted immigration to Australia in the 50's 69's and 70's .. And could also have been about immigration to and of the other colonies at the time... The bottom line seemed to be that those who assimilated to some degree in there new environment generaly did well, whilst those who forever compared Australia with home never really settled... I found the same thing as a young man leaving the new Zimbabwe for South Africa in the early 80's.. For a while I gravitated towards the so called ex Rhodies and hung with them. But there was so much negativity from the "When we's" that I made a conciencious decision to only keep in touch with a few close friends and move on as it were. It still amazes me that there are some who still talk about the good old days in Rhodesia and how they miss them... Now I know that the East is a much bigger challenge and you will never be able to fully integrate, but at least try to understand, their country, their system, their way and fit in as best you can. Enjoy what is good and live with what irks.. Or go home as you will never be happy...
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#35
04-07-2009, 13:54
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The key money is just another greedy gouge (that is far less prevalent and less punative in non farang Thailand also) and while the excuse is semi plausable what it doesnt point out is how it gives the owner an incentive to make the leasee fail.. Thereby taking the main chunk of money and getting a new tennant. And thats good ??
__________________
A closed mouth gathers no feet !!
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