your country's patriotism

[marc26]

weve had some battles over this, but with this topic, id like less arguing and just more of people's views of their won country:

knowing me, alot of you guys know im one of the staunchest defenders of my country. most times i take critisism with an open mind, other times i am defensive.
my take is a little blended, more of compare and contrast canada(where ive been living) vs US

i think canadians are very proud of canada. everything has the maple leaf on it, and everything on tv is canada's this and canada's that. i like it. i do think there is a little bit of US complex mixed in with that, but id expect that, having the US as their neighbors can be a little tiresome, i would imagine but i do like the almost small town feel of their country's pride
the one critisism id have, and this is just my perspective, beung here for 7 months and out in vancouver, is they lack passion a little bit. well, except for hockey! honestly besides that, they dont have too much of an opinion on anything else, which can be good and bad.

now, for america, i love our patriotism. but in that patriotism is ignorance. not giving other people's cultures a chance, just assuming america's way is the right way.
i spoke of passion concerning canada. now it may at times be misguided, but you can not deny americans are passionate. sometimes we have passionate ignorant people, who make us look bad, but at least its passion
so, as a summary, i love america's passion on a whole, but as everyone knows, we as a country could be more open-minded to the world.

oh well, thats my take, and anything i said about canada is just someone's opinion being here a small perios of time and hope i dont offend any of my canuck friends.

also, hope you guys dont mind these threads i throw out there. this shit runs through my head, so it has to go somewhere, and with the wide variety of bm's we have, i figure this is the best place!

[steve@thaib]

I once read a quote (Paxman) about the English 'looking backwards into the future' which I thought brilliant. The history we have is a real wonder to me on occasion, even a walk around where I live will find buildings dating back 300 years, I just love all that history and sense of knowing who you are.

Passion wise though, I don't think we English really do passion. Personally I find our national anthem a bit sappy and meaningless. I never really understood that until I went to Murrayfield and stood among 60 thousand Scots singing 'flower of Scotland; now [i]that's[i] passion.

I like being English, and I kind of like the fact that we get up a few noses just by being us as well. That said, I'm a big admirer of the way some other countries conduct themselves, like some sort of new and improved version of what we have here. I'm thinking of Australia and immigration policy (not just the refugee / boat people thing)

[senor123]

One of the things a politician loves is a flag to die for.
To me, patriotism is simply a throwback to the tribal system where everyone needed to belong in order to survive, expand, etc.
If everyone was forced to live in another country with a local family for 1 year we would have much less "patriotism" and more understanding.
Most people just want to live a peaceful life, have their children grow up strong and healthy and die in their beds. For LOS lovers it's probably in you current girlfriend's bed but you will certainly have a smile on your face.
Where you are born is just luck, not good management, but the ability to think for yourself and not blindly follow your flag and your "patriotic" thoughts is certainly something that has nothing to do with luck.
I wonder how many wars, police actions etc we would have if the leaders of each country were expected to be at the head of the army or at least in the thick of the battle.
Steve

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Garybar

Well Marc-you've opened a can of worms here but let me be gentle. Have you ever heard the old saying about Canada-"Poor Canada,so far from God
and so close to the United States". We have gained a lot by being your closest neighbor but we have also lost a lot. Our 25 million in population
has never been able to compete in some ways with having such a giant so
close to us.Our culture was inundated with American culture-your movies,your books,your t.v shows.It overwhelmed our culture and to a great extent wiped it out. Ask small children(and some not so small) in Canada who our Prime Minister is and watch how many answer "George Bush".Ask who was our first PM and the answer will be Abe Lincoln or G.Washington. As a result we don't have as well defined view of what it is to be a Canadian,as we used to.


No passion-Don't mistake a more reserved and laid back nature with lack of passion.We have lots of it but don't show it as quickly or easily as you yanks-
mostly. I like to think we are more easy going,no quite so "jingoistic" and we
try to give the other guy some room for his opinion.But pushed beyond a
certain point -you soon see how much passion Canadians have. But we like to be seen as peace loving and open minded. A lot of Canadians are also careful about what they say to Americans-for a while-my bet is wait until those people you deal with feel that you "can take" hearing what they really
think about some things and don't be surprised if you hear some things you don't like.But take our approach and listen with an open mind. You might just learn to appreciate the world views of someone "coming" from a different
perspective.

i dont disagrew with anything you said except the last line. if you read my post, i thought i made it abundantly clear that i do respect other points of view.
and i did not mean anything negative at all against your country, i love it here

[Allybabba22]

Originally Posted by steve@thaib

I once read a quote (Paxman) about the English 'looking backwards into the future' which I thought brilliant. The history we have is a real wonder to me on occasion, even a walk around where I live will find buildings dating back 300 years, I just love all that history and sense of knowing who you are.

Passion wise though, I don't think we English really do passion. Personally I find our national anthem a bit sappy and meaningless. I never really understood that until I went to Murrayfield and stood among 60 thousand Scots singing 'flower of Scotland; now [i]that's[i] passion.

I like being English, and I kind of like the fact that we get up a few noses just by being us as well. That said, I'm a big admirer of the way some other countries conduct themselves, like some sort of new and improved version of what we have here. I'm thinking of Australia and immigration policy (not just the refugee / boat people thing)

Irish and Scottish people are extemely similar in there patriotism, We both breath the same kind of passion, And we share loads of things in common, The main one being our historys and heritage....

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Allybabba22

Irish and Scottish people are extemely similar in there patriotism, We both breath the same kind of passion, And we share loads of things in common, The main one being our historys and heritage....

i just assume ireland is dripping with since the states are loaded with irish very proud of their country

[nelsonone]

I am not a believer in "blind patriotism" which as L4L touches on......is a tool of the devil for politicians to exploit............and don't they just!!!!

"in the name of God and country" is a rally which really shits me because it assumes that you are inferior or have no meaning in life if you don't believe in whatever god it is and whatever country you are in.........

I am always one to praise achievement and love it when I see meaningful success in all endeavours..........not just sport as is often how success is so wrongly measured.......particularly when it has been achieved in the face of adversity........ but I don't relate this to a countries success..... more to individuals.....and sometimes this achievement is made in direct opposition to one's country's wishes/laws.........which in my opinion makes it all the more worthwhile...........

I feel empathy for Canada coming from Australia and New Zealand becuase I feel it is often forced into the position of defining itself by who it is not (USA) rather than who it is......and I don't mean this in any way to denigrate either country........it is just circumstance.........

Some of this feeling is probably because I have spent large chunks of my life in two countries which are very competitive with each other and at times I have had to bare the brunt of borderline racist remarks from both sides of he Tasman Sea.........it is really ridiculous for two countries to feel this way about each other when they are so close and so absolutely similar in their national psyche.......and much of this sentiment is fuelled by stupid blind patriotism

To me patriotism is a double edged sword

[Thai Kwan Do]

Patriotism in Holland? i believe at this moment is about nil.
most people are leaving!!!! about 37.000 last year !

[steve@thaib]

Originally Posted by peterhol

Patriotism in Holland? i believe at this moment is about nil.
most people are leaving!!!! about 37.000 last year !

Haven't the Dutch always been transient? A nation of sea-traders would be very outward looking by nature I think, very likely to go where the best deal is for them.

[faultytowers]

We Scots are very patriotic , we leave Scotland , travel the world , settle in almost every country...............and tell them how great Scotland is.!!!!!

[nelsonone]

Originally Posted by faultytowers

We Scots are very patriotic , we leave Scotland , travel the world , settle in almost every country...............and tell them how great Scotland is.!!!!!

That's very funny ..........and very true Faulty

I can't believe how many Scots have said to me.........."i love living here in New Zealand.........it's just like Scotland"....ah erm......now what's wrong with this statement I wonder????

[steve@thaib]

Talbotman used to have it as his signature:

'Scotland I adore ye, I just don't want to live in ye'

[swiftdave]

I could write volumes on why Canada is such a great country...but then all the Americans would move here and property values would drop.
Instead we are infiltrating the US with comedians, actors and musicians. Once we have dominance over the mass media the take over will begin.
Our fifth column is waging a "hearts and minds" campaign.
Slowly Paul, you'll stat changing. Maybe wearing a touque at first. Maybe a double double at Tim Hortons. Then one day you'll wake up at the Stanley Cup with a big red maple leaf painted on your ass, a hard hat with two cans of Labatts Blue and you'll be singing Stompin' Tom Connors and loving it.

[visa2003]

Nelsonone,
I may be a little further from NZ than most Australians, but personally, I love the good natured angst between our two peoples. To me, it just shows that both are fairly confident about who they are and can take a joke.
From what I have read, historically, let anyone from outside our little upsidedown world start in on either party, and they will find themselves with a lot more to deal with than they originally thought. Our two countries have shown a willingness to band together in times of trouble that shows all the competitiveness and so-called jealousy to be the lie it truely is.
Both countries started in adversity and succeeded through hard work. I think they will always be united by that!

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Garybar

Chill man ,chill.I wasn't meaning anything negative toward you.I understood your points and wasn't directing that last line at you.You seem like a decent
fellow and I enjoy your posts and your viewpoints.I was using "YOU" in a general sense to refer to anyone looking at Canada from the viewpoint being discussed.

i wasnt freaking out. just trying to stress i didnt mean anything negative

[Lucky7]

Originally Posted by marc26

now, for america, i love our patriotism. but in that patriotism is ignorance. not giving other people's cultures a chance, just assuming america's way is the right way.

I agree. A good number of Americans are still like this even in more tolerant, progressive places like NY, Chicago and LA.

We Americans can benefit from traveling more. I love being an American and appreciate what America has done for me there is a lot we could learn from seeing how other cultures do things.

[seafox]

I bleed red, white, and blue with a little(or a lot) of green mixed in when I have had too many Heinekins.

Yes, US people need to travel more. This has been discussed a lot on the forum. I think I was in the top 10 in the forum for countries visted and all of mine have been for pleasure, not business so I am not your normal American and do not want to know what my life would be like if I had not traveled so much.

[nelsonone]

Originally Posted by visa2003

Nelsonone,
let anyone from outside our little upsidedown world start in on either party, and they will find themselves with a lot more to deal with than they originally thought.

I gotta agree with you on this one Visa..........we do support each other in the face of adversity.....but I also gotta say I do cop a lot of crap from both Australians + New Zealanders for being from the "other side of the ditch" which does leave me very confused sometimes..........as my history is pretty equally from both countries........and presently pretty equally in both countries

[dawsey]

Originally Posted by nelsonone

I gotta agree with you on this one Visa..........we do support each other in the face of adversity.....but I also gotta say I do cop a lot of crap from both Australians + New Zealanders for being from the "other side of the ditch" which does leave me very confused sometimes..........as my history is pretty equally from both countries........and presently pretty equally in both countries

No confusion as to where your loyalties lie with the rugby though is there Nelson 55555555555

[nelsonone]

Originally Posted by dawsey

No confusion as to where your loyalties lie with the rugby though is there Nelson 55555555555

eRR.........no Dawsey.......have you picked that up somewhere on the board ...........55555

Always have and always will be an All Blacks fan..........I just love the forwards take no prisoners approach.......and the backs have "the touch of a hairdresser" (been waiting to use that quote for a while since I heard Wayne Riley use it commentating on the British Open last year)............55555

And yes this does get me into a lot of trouble in Aus.......

As does my "more direct" business style in NZ........55555