democracy in the UK?

[muddyhoop]

The answer is there isn't democracy in the UK anymore...

Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 allows the police to stop and search anyone in a specific area. Meaning everybody in the UK is a suspect if the Police choose so.

Before Section 44, the police could only stop and search individuals if they had 'reasonable grounds' and certain criteria were met. That is no longer necessary, and we have seen Section 44 powers used against anti-war, anti-weapons and anti-capitalist protesters...

WHICH, co-incidentally is an invasion of the Human Right 'The Right to Protest' one of your civil liberties.

The Serious Organized Crime and Police Act 2005 has received most publicity for it's ban on unauthorized protests within 1 km of Parliament - widely accepted to have been devised to end the peace protest of Brian Haw.

Lets look at the Lisbon Treaty...

The UK Government sent out around 400,000 ballot papers to poll whether signing the Lisbon Treaty would be welcomed by the UK, 88% of the papers returned said that they would not welcome the move. Yet our Government did it anyways...

When did the people of the UK get to vote. Interestingly, only Labour and Lib Deb areas got to vote in the polls.

The Lisbon Treaty I'm sure you're all aware to basically sum it up makes Europe a superpower and there will be a president of Europe. We will inevitably have a European Army and most likely a European Police Force. Our army will be at the service of Europe and not just for our Queen and country. This seems to me like too few people with too much power. And that sounds like the beginnings of a dictatorship not a democracy.

Plans have gone ahead for compulsory ID Cards...

Although we will not be forced to have an ID card when renewing passports until 2010, we will have our details entered onto the National Identity Register much sooner.

If completed, the NIR would be the world’s biggest biometric database, holding fifty two pieces of information on every adult who remains in the UK for longer than three months.

MI5 don't seem to be doing so well with keeping top secret details private at the moment do they?

Our phones are now tapped for the whim of Police, Companies, the Government, but as yet I believe it cannot be used as evidence in court

All this to apparently curb 'Terrorism'...

There is one CCTV camera for every 14 people in the UK. If you live in London you are likely to be on cameras 300 times a day.

Yet, kids are killing other kids, stabbings, gun crime and anti-social behavior is at an all time high. I remember a decade or so ago riding my bike around all day without my parents really worrying where I was. There is no chance kids could do that now...

Our spineless ass-licking Prime Minister has sent yet more troops (a record number since the start of the war there) over to Afganistan - have they found Bin Laden yet? NO lmao!

Pimped our country to Europe.

Is hated by a lot of the UK even worse than Tony Blair was before he stepped down.

He is basically doing as he likes with his posse of MP's...

The US is the same too... Bush - this guy came out of Yale with such famous quotes as: "More and more of our imports now are from other countries"


Its confuses me why people don't do anything about it or at least speak up in force... Is it not time to overthrow our Governments?

Think I will stay in Thailand for a bit longer!

[Crustasian]

That is why I choose to live on the other side of the world.

[Jeep]

indeed it is time...............................and it is coming

[dawsey]

Originally Posted by muddyhoop

Its confuses me why people don't do anything about it or at least speak up in force... Is it not time to overthrow our Governments?

Nothing would happen if people did speak out en masse. This present government know they are on borrowed time, and will push through all the policies they can, until they are voted out.

I am just as annoyed that the Prime Minister is not the guy who was democratically voted in. He got the job when Blair had enough of it. Brown and his cronies will be voted out at the first opportunity.

[Nicke]

Lisbon treaty will most likely not happen I think, too many countries have disagreements with it at some points. Europe is not easy to get united, so many different countries and views; so I guess it will take a long time to make Europe a superpower.

[Sirgezza]

Originally Posted by dawsey

Nothing would happen if people did speak out en masse. This present government know they are on borrowed time, and will push through all the policies they can, until they are voted out.

I am just as annoyed that the Prime Minister is not the guy who was democratically voted in. He got the job when Blair had enough of it. Brown and his cronies will be voted out at the first opportunity.

I reckon Brown must be kicking himself that he did not call a snap election when he became PM a year ago. He would have won at that time. Everything seems to have gone downhill for him since then.

[steve@thaib]

Originally Posted by muddyhoop

The answer is there isn't democracy in the UK anymore...!

Democracy is 'government by representation', we exercise our democratic rights every four years or so. Democracy is alive and well. The Irish saw off Lisbon for us (thanks fellas), we won't see a meaningful shift of powers and laws to Europe anytime soon.

Originally Posted by muddyhoop

There is one CCTV camera for every 14 people in the UK. If you live in London you are likely to be on cameras 300 times a day.

Yet, kids are killing other kids, stabbings, gun crime and anti-social behavior is at an all time high. I remember a decade or so ago riding my bike around all day without my parents really worrying where I was. There is no chance kids could do that now......!

There was some similar discussion on the radio today that went along the lines of '5 million cameras in the UK' and it turned out that the number had been calculated by counting the number of cameras in 2 streets in London and then extrapolating that out.

For me, the ID cards are not a big deal and neither is a DNA database, how many old murders and rapes have been cleared up since DNA came into play?.

I might be in a minority but I'm happy with all the cameras as well. How many muggings would there have been on the road out to Kamala if it was lit up like a christmas tree and covered by CCTV?

Originally Posted by muddyhoop

The US is the same too... Bush - this guy came out of Yale with such famous quotes as: "More and more of our imports now are from other countries"!

I agree, wouldn't catcherise us tripping up over words would you.........

Originally Posted by muddyhoop

Its confuses me why people don't do anything about it or at least speak up in force... Is it not time to overthrow our Governments?!

Worked a treat in Thaland didn't it?

Originally Posted by muddyhoop

Think I will stay in Thailand for a bit longer!

I would too if I could, but I suspect for different reasons.

[Allybabba22]

Originally Posted by steve@thaib

Democracy is 'government by representation', we exercise our democratic rights every four years or so. Democracy is alive and well. The Irish saw off Lisbon for us (thanks fellas), we won't see a meaningful shift of powers and laws to Europe anytime soon.

Not so sure about that Steve

We were the only country that was allowed a referendum and that was only because we are protected by our constitution, The European Union does not like these votes and thats why they basically put a stop to others having them, Now that we have voted "No" they are basically threatening us if we dont sign up to this in a second Referendem (within a year) that we will be left outside the door, And they will move on without us using the same text as the Lisbon treaty but just put under a new heading (ie: Paris/Brussels/Prague Treaty etc)...

So much for our vote eh?



Also we are going to lose our commisioner in Europe next year....

[steve@thaib]

Originally Posted by Allybabba22

Not so sure about that Steve

We were the only country that was allowed a referendum and that was only because we are protected by our constitution, The European Union does not like these votes and thats why they basically put a stop to others having them, Now that we have voted "No" they are basically threatening us if we dont sign up to this in a second Referendem (within a year) that we will be left outside the door, And they will move on without us using the same text as the Lisbon treaty but just put under a new heading (ie: Paris/Brussels/Prague Treaty etc)...

So much for our vote eh?



Also we are going to lose our commisioner in Europe next year....

I thought Denmark threw it out too? I think your vote will count for a lot in the longer game.

[Allybabba22]

Originally Posted by steve@thaib

I thought Denmark threw it out too? I think your vote will count for a lot in the longer game.

Nope they ratified the treaty, In 2005 both France and the Holland took a referendum on it, And both voted No to the treaty so it went back to the drawing board, Then when the elections in France became for a new President/Prime Minister, Nicolas Sarkozy promised to make the changes to the treaty if elected....

And he changed certain things, But 95% of the treaty is the exact same but this time the French were not allowed a Referedum, Nor were the Dutch, The bigwigs in the EU did not want this Treaty to be voted by the people, So they basically stopped goverments from having them, But with Ireland they could not because before any amendments can be made to our constitution, The people have to vote for it through a Referendum , Hence the No vote and all the pressure being put on us to vote again with-in the next year or be left behind by the other 25 nations who have already ratified this treaty Or are in the process of doing so now, The Czechs are the only other country who are making loud noises about not ratifying the treaty so they will be given the boot also, Under law they cannot go ahead with this treaty, But they can basically change the name of the text and go ahead without us.. Wheres the Democracy in that?

They will get this through by hook or by crook!!!

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Allybabba22

They will get this through by hook or by crook!!!

Ain't that the truth.....................Unfortunately.

IMHO, there is NO democracy in the UK right now.

That's just me.

[Sirgezza]

Originally Posted by Denver

Ain't that the truth.....................Unfortunately.

IMHO, there is NO democracy in the UK right now.

That's just me.

We have the right to vote at every general election. Unfortunately, no political party has policies that I want, so I don't vote. Therefore, I would agree that democracy is not working here.

[dawsey]

Post#10 Good post Ally, and nicely explained.

If listening to the peoples wishes is a democracy, then ours has gone.
Given the vote, it would be a resounding NO, and the UK government, and the rest of the EU know it. That is why it will be bulldozed though one way or another.
Heaven help us when Turkey are eventually are admitted. Another slice of our taxpayers money in the Turkish benefit seekers pocket.

[LivinLOS]

How about the "Fcuk off and leave me alone" party ??

Cut out as much governance and bureaucracy as is possible to have a functioning society (that means you Gez)..

Income taxes flat level and low.. If the above was done with a passion 10%.. So much is government waste.

Force self sufficiency or starve.. Benefits would not be an option for fit working aged males in my world. I would even go as far as tieing in any benefit payment with forced work groups, fix the roads, dig the ditches, clean the trash.. You dont have a job so what else you got to do all day ?? Dont want to do it ?? then fine, starve or get a real job, if not heres the ****ing broom.

Immigration possible but any immigrant gets 0 benefits, none nada rien.. No money, no housing, no legal aid, zip... Perhaps emergency medical in the sense of A&E only.. That way the only ones that would come would have to work, would have to be productive, could only be a plus to society. Any crime deportation. After 5 years limited benefits.. Then naturalizations, they have earned it by then.

In life a man needs a little luck and a little government.. But only a fool trusts either of them.

[Crustasian]

I totally agree with you Seft.Stop allowing people to live for free with UK's nanny state.

I believe that if Britain was to hold a full referendum on withdrawing from Europe completely that the anti Europe groups would win.Britain should revert to using its trade links with the Commonwealth and tell Europe to have sex and travel.

[LivinLOS]

Dont get me wrong.. I am not a BNP type and certainly dont base my ideas on rascism, I think a lot of the mixture into the UK from the former colonies, the west indies, etc has made england more diverse and interesting..

My ideas would be to allow people easier access to the UK, based on the premise that there would be nothing there for them. You want to come and work, fair nuff, get going..

[Sirgezza]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

My ideas would be to allow people easier access to the UK, based on the premise that there would be nothing there for them. You want to come and work, fair nuff, get going..

Okay, so that is policy number 1.

Policy number 2:

Asylum seekers who break the law are immediately deported to their home country.

Policy number 3:

Crackdown on anti social behaviour. On the spot fines, community service etc.

The manifesto is taking shape - policy number 4?

[Sirgezza]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Cut out as much governance and bureaucracy as is possible to have a functioning society (that means you Gez)..

So am I a bureaucrat or am I a member of a functioning society?

I'm voting Tory next time - they say that they will get rid of a lot of public servants. I could do with another redundancy payment to help fund early retirement.

[cotambear]

On the subject of a dream manifesto her is one.

Abolish all benefits except housing and disability.
Replace with a citizenship allowance that every citizen gets - say 5k a year (we can argue up or down on that). Less for kids, more for seniors. You get this whether in employment or not.

People on the dole are then incentivised to work - even if its part time or crappy.
Single mums may choose to do a few hours to get extra money.
People could move in or out of education more freely.
The whole complex benefits system, the armies of civil servants to police it, the fraudsters, who exploit it would almost all be swept away overnight.

[cotambear]

anyway in the uk we still have have our wonderful police. bestest in all the world

The Ladybird Book of The Policeman