Big Game Hunting

[pablo]

I was tending to my sore knee (the other night), by drinking scotch and watching the Budweiser clock spin around, in a local bar. Then a "hunting" program (ESPN) came up on the TV, overhead the bar.

I sat watching this show, and wondered WTF these guys got out of "slaying" some of these big animals. I mean, elephant's, and zebra's, hippo's FFS, and so on? It was crazy, with "no brain-er" shots from maybe 50m at most. And one, a hippo in a river, staring at the hunters like a "deer in the headlights" from about 25m.

I was kind of disgusted with the entire operation, and began to wonder WTF these "hunter's" get out of this, anyway?

Now to be sure, I'm a "pro gun" advocate. So none of that here please. But in my case, I'm rather more interested in self defense firearms, rather than the hunting variety. I do own a couple of "hunting rifles", but haven't been out in 10 years or so.

The hunting that I've done (domestic USA) has been for deer, elk, and moose. And it's the hunt (camping out, overcoming weather, finding and tracking the prey, etc) and the challenge of the "shot", that makes it satisfying. My last shot was on a "deer hunt", and I bagged a nice buck at around 250 yards. We of course stripped the animal and packed out nearly all the meat. Which was then processed, and enjoyed (eaten) throughout the next several months.

I'm just trying to get my head around this "big game" hunting thing. The "shot's" I saw on the TV program were almost point blank range. And, do the hunters take the meat? Anybody tried any hippo, or elephant, lately?

I just don't get it?

[Ranger J]

Yeah its a bit of a disgrace.

I don't have a problem with people shooting feral animals and those native populations that need to be controlled.

But big game hunting I have always wondered the mentality of the hunters. Harmless animals, just living life, and then the hunter comes along with a high-powered weapon - with a ball well in their court. Alot of these animals were never hunted naturally by humans in the first place, so i don't see why the situation has changed simply because of plentiful fortunes and transport. I'd like to see big game hunting with bare hands and basic weapons - where the hunter is likely to be within 50 yards and the animal has some realistic sense of defending itself and getting some revenge on the bastards.

I could go on forever, but I'll let someone else take the soapbox.

Cheers,
Ranger.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Ranger J

Yeah its a bit of a disgrace.

I don't have a problem with people shooting feral animals and those native populations that need to be controlled.

But big game hunting I have always wondered the mentality of the hunters. Harmless animals, just living life, and then the hunter comes along with a high-powered weapon - with a ball well in their court. Alot of these animals were never hunted naturally by humans in the first place, so i don't see why the situation has changed simply because of plentiful fortunes and transport. I'd like to see big game hunting with bare hands and basic weapons - where the hunter is likely to be within 50 yards and the animal has some realistic sense of defending itself and getting some revenge on the bastards.

I could go on forever, but I'll let someone else take the soapbox.

Cheers,
Ranger.

what is the difference between killing big game and a deer?
you are still killing an animal for fun

absolutely ridiculous if you ask me

[pablo]

Originally Posted by marc26

what is the difference between killing big game and a deer?
you are still killing an animal for fun

absolutely ridiculous if you ask me

Well, there are valid arguments relating to "culling" wildlife herds.

The wildlife management teams within various agencies, are charged with the job of maintaining the optimum size of a herd...versus the available forage and food, in a locale. Thus promoting a more stable and healthy group of animals.

Then, they issue (sell) a designated number of "hunting permits" to accomplish this "culling". This raises revenue for the process and enables those who enjoy "hunting", to do so. I think it's a better method than having the "said" agency, merely euthanize a number of animals, to accomplish the goals.

Perhaps (and probably in most instances), it's the same with the big game in Africa. My point was, that I don't understand the satisfaction a hunter might gain, by taking such "easy" shots? And, what is done with the animal afterward?

That is, besides some guy hanging a stuffed head in his parlor.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by pablo

Well, there are valid arguments relating to "culling" wildlife herds.

The wildlife management teams within various agencies, are charged with the job of maintaining the optimum size of a herd...versus the available forage and food, in a locale. Thus promoting a more stable and healthy group of animals.

Then, they issue (sell) a designated number of "hunting permits" to accomplish this "culling". This raises revenue for the process and enables those who enjoy "hunting", to do so. I think it's a better method than having the "said" agency, merely euthanize a number of animals, to accomplish the goals.

Perhaps (and probably in most instances), it's the same with the big game in Africa. My point was, that I don't understand the satisfaction a hunter might gain, by taking such "easy" shots? And, what is done with the animal afterward?

That is, besides some guy hanging a stuffed head in his parlor.

im an animal lover
if it isnt for food , it shouldnt be shot

im sure people will disagree

[Thai Kwan Do]

Originally Posted by marc26

im an animal lover
if it isnt for food , it shouldnt be shot

im sure people will disagree

what about snakes paul?

[Older man]

Seems to me those "hunters" are peple who want to impress themselves or others they are "real men". Unless they fight the animal bare handed, with a gun or rifle they have the obvious advantage, they don't impress me at all.

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by marc26

what is the difference between killing big game and a deer?
you are still killing an animal for fun

absolutely ridiculous if you ask me

I am a bit odd in that I am totally anti blood sports but then always seem to shock the dole budlging lentil eating hippys by being quite pro hunting / fishing etc with the absolute requirement that its killed and eaten.. I eat meat, I would be some kind of hypocrite to only eat meat from a cellophane wrap !!

As for big game.. I think it sucks.. Its rare and endangered.. I could be convinced in some circumstances of the need to cull some problem animals or in population control.. But it would take a well reasoned argument to convince me on a case by case basis.. I guess theres some economic factors too, if one persons hunting ticket saves 10 animals from poachers then sadly those are realities..

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by marc26

im an animal lover
if it isnt for food , it shouldnt be shot

im sure people will disagree

Theres some other valid reasons.. Vermin, non indigenous animals that take over a region and spread, population balancing between species.. Etc.

But on the whole I agree.. I dont even like catch and release course fishing..

[Ranger J]

Originally Posted by marc26

what is the difference between killing big game and a deer?
you are still killing an animal for fun

absolutely ridiculous if you ask me

A fair whack of difference really.

Big game, generally speaking, have longer generation times i.e. reproduce less often and/or less successfully than vermin, such as deer in US and Kangaroos in AUS, and/or produce very few offspring at each reproduction event.

The other major difference that we are seeing the effects of now, is that big game hunters obviously pay good money for a hunt, therefore go out there looking for the biggest, or most attractive game out there - the species that springs to mind is the big-horned sheep. It has been some time since I had read about this - but I'll try my best - and this is a very simplified version of the whole story.

Hunters have been targeting this species for some time now
(before 1900), soughting out the rams with the largest horns (I.e. most turns). The species was listed as threatened several times now, but recent conservation has taken care of that. Anyhow, researchers have now revealed that the average size and amount of turns in the horns of the rams are significantly less now, than they were when research began. After looking at all the immediate environmental impacts that influence the species, they deduced that hunting, was the sole selective pressure that brought upon this change in horn size.

In laymans terms - the hunters were taking the biggest horns out of the populations, therefore taking those genes associated with the biggest horns out of the population, since they are no longer in reproduction. The big horn sheep with the smallest horns are selected against, and therefore left to do all the reproducing. So we see a gradual (or swift in this case) change in the gene flow which ultimately leads to a change in physical traits in populations of the species - i.e. microevolution.

A great example of Darwin's theory folding right in front of our eyes - luckily there are management practices now in place.

Randomly plucking deer or kangaroo out of a large population won't do alot to disturb the gene flow, however, if you start selecting for the biggest deer or roo each hunt, then you will start to do some damage, but unlikely since these populations are phenomenally huge.

Thats where big game hunting is different - they are SELECTING for a particular trait.

I'm glad we are on the same boat though Marc .... 5555

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Ranger J

Randomly plucking deer or kangaroo out of a large population won't do alot to disturb the gene flow, however, if you start selecting for the biggest deer or roo each hunt, then you will start to do some damage, but unlikely since these populations are phenomenally huge.

but it still kills an innocent deer for no reason

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Thai Kwan Do

what about snakes paul?

you bastard!!
good memory

and to be honest, im deathly afraid of snakes but wouldnt want to see one killed senselessly

be happy to get it out of my sight as fast as possible though 5555

[Ranger J]

Originally Posted by marc26

but it still kills an innocent deer for no reason

Well yeah, there is that issue - I agree with you, unless it is in the name of vermin control - and there are a whole swag of issues that go with that too!

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Ranger J

Well yeah, there is that issue - I agree with you, unless it is in the name of vermin control - and there are a whole swag of issues that go with that too!

listen, reading your posts, you obviously know a lot more about it than me
i am just a sappy animal lover

i argue with my boss when he puts out traps/powder in his backyard for the racoons 5555

[pablo]

Originally Posted by marc26

but it still kills an innocent deer for no reason

"and then there's little Bambi tiptoeing toward the clear brook, to get a drink of water. Ears perched up she gently looks around, then lowers her tiny snout into the clear stream, taking in a cool morning drink.

Then "BAM"...Bambi's brains scattered through the woods!

Yeah, some kind of manly bonding experience that is?"

(loosely taken from "My Cousin Vinnie", the movie. 5555)

[hagler]

when I was in my early 20's (and that is quite a while ago too..) I spent a couple of years riding a motorbike from the bottom of Africa to the top.

The only thing I regret now with the wisdom of age from that trip was my involvement of the "culling" of wildife. Sure it was all permit based stuff and officially sanctioned and the clients of the company I worked for a time were pretty good people but you put relatively large sums of money in front of third world country officials and permits are gonna be issued for some pretty dodgy reasons.

I will be harshy judged for those things when I get to the pearly gates. One of the very few regrets I have in life so far...

[retepg]

The most despicable form of hunting is canned hunting.
We have heard and seen a lot about this on our local TV in SA.

Animals that are reared in captivity, and then shot in what is basically a large enclosed area.
There is strong evidence of lion's being drugged so that they will not move, or only move slowly
It is hard to believe that someone would stoop to these levels, but apparently there is no shortage of customers looking for that perfect trophy.

[nelsonone]

Originally Posted by retepg

The most despicable form of hunting is canned hunting.
We have heard and seen a lot about this on our local TV in SA.

Animals that are reared in captivity, and then shot in what is basically a large enclosed area.
There is strong evidence of lion's being drugged so that they will not move, or only move slowly
It is hard to believe that someone would stoop to these levels, but apparently there is no shortage of customers looking for that perfect trophy.

send them over to look for Mugabe....now thats some vermin requiring extinction.....