Malaysia & the MM2H scheme - a suitable alternative?

[richone]

I am aware that some members, including myself, have given thought to moving to Malaysia, as an alternative to Thailand, primarily to gain greater security in terms of being able to live on a long term basis, without the worry and hassles, vagaries and whims of Thai Immigration and moving goal posts, amongst other things.

Well, I recently took a trip to Penang to assess whether it was a suitable place (for me) to establish a base and apply for a 10 year Visa through their MM2H scheme.

In case members are interested I have copied below an edited summary of my thoughts and observations.

Prior to my visit to Penang, I did quite a bit of research via the Internet, and came across "Alter Domus" a relocation service, specialising in the Malaysian MM2H programme.

So whilst we were there, I met with the MD, a Penang guy whose family run the relocation service. Very helpful and very professional. He gave us a (free) 1+ hour talk on:- the MM2H programme, on Penang and living in Penang, and then for RM 100 (Ringit), I let him take us on a 3 hour tour of Penang. During which time he explained and pointed out, and I was able to see first hand and ask questions about anything and everything, - including areas to live, types of property, condos etc, which were the more & less desirable or expensive areas, traffic issues, prices of property, what is included etc etc.

He took us to and past many of the Condo tower blocks that one might live in, and we saw what was close to them in terms of shops, facilities etc. Generally speaking construction standards and facilities were very good, prices higher than Thailand and probably higher than much of Malaysia, but not dramatically so.

At the end of the day though, I don't think it is what I would want. I think one would feel cooped up and isolated in almost a prison like environment, (in one of the very many condos). Your day would likely consist of a walk or more likely drive to the local shopping mall, or sea front area, or into town.

It was rather like an upmarket Bangkok. The island is crowded and cramped with much high rise accommodation, too much traffic, though not too much nightlife - which is very localised to one particular area and relatively expensive, as were most things compared to Thailand.

There wouldn't be any of the same type of social interaction with local people, as with girls in bars/massage shops etc., that one gets in Thailand. So it would be a more sober life style in all respects! (Don't get me wrong, the people are friendly, but there isn't the laugh and joke, type of behaviour you get in LOS).

On the positive side, things were very well structured and the traffic, driving standards and the roads a joy to behold, (I never saw anyone on a motorbike without a helmet, even once when I saw 3 on one bike, - they each had a helmet!). But the inner city rat race just didn't appeal, which is predominantly what it is!

Yes, Penang has a very British influenced feel about it, but it is nevertheless a busy working city environment. At the weekend it receives a large influx of Malaysian and other tourists and visitors.

What is worth noting is that the MM2H Visa scheme is available to people over 50, putting RM 150K in a Malaysian bank account, and demonstrating that you have at least another RM 350K+ cash somewhere else. You can then get a 10 year Visa (multiple exit and re-entry) - you don't need to buy property there if you don't want to. You don't even have to stay there, if you don't want to. You could rent, live away and/or just visit from time to time, whatever!

The guy I spoke to, said that the adjoining mainland Malaysia (i.e. Butterworth) would be too quiet and lacking in facilities, particularly nightlife and too parochial (my phrase). Obviously KL would only mirror the inner city life, - densely populated and heavily trafficked. Elsewhere - i.e. more remote places in Malaysia would likely only exacerbate the lack of facilities, nightlife, etc, situation.

Certainly English is widely spoken and there were many English language programmes on TV.

(I was a little concerned to also see TV programmes with young Muslim children holding well orchestrated, detailed and serious conversations (whilst in the park or on the beach) - during which they were speaking directly to the camera and often nodding in agreement with each other, and during which, I noted in the sub-titles and heard names like Iraq, Baghdad, Palestine, Syria and Jordan mentioned. The rest of the content I do not know.)

So all in all, I don't think Penang or Malaysia is for me. I think one must look for somewhere that has not yet been discovered, rather than somewhere that has already, or long since, been discovered and is now suffering the consequences and commercialisation, as is Phuket!!

PS. I stayed at both the Malaysia and the Continental Hotels, good locations, but right on top of the noisy nightlife!

[The Loop]

Originally Posted by richone

I am aware that some members, including myself, have given thought to moving to Malaysia, as an alternative to Thailand, primarily to gain greater security in terms of being able to live on a long term basis, without the worry and hassles, vagaries and whims of Thai Immigration and moving goal posts, amongst other things.

Well, I recently took a trip to Penang to assess whether it was a suitable place (for me) to establish a base and apply for a 10 year Visa through their MM2H scheme.

In case members are interested I have copied below an edited summary of my thoughts and observations.

Prior to my visit to Penang, I did quite a bit of research via the Internet, and came across "Alter Domus" a relocation service, specialising in the Malaysian MM2H programme.

So whilst we were there, I met with the MD, a Penang guy whose family run the relocation service. Very helpful and very professional. He gave us a (free) 1+ hour talk on:- the MM2H programme, on Penang and living in Penang, and then for RM 100 (Ringit), I let him take us on a 3 hour tour of Penang. During which time he explained and pointed out, and I was able to see first hand and ask questions about anything and everything, - including areas to live, types of property, condos etc, which were the more & less desirable or expensive areas, traffic issues, prices of property, what is included etc etc.

He took us to and past many of the Condo tower blocks that one might live in, and we saw what was close to them in terms of shops, facilities etc. Generally speaking construction standards and facilities were very good, prices higher than Thailand and probably higher than much of Malaysia, but not dramatically so.

At the end of the day though, I don't think it is what I would want. I think one would feel cooped up and isolated in almost a prison like environment, (in one of the very many condos). Your day would likely consist of a walk or more likely drive to the local shopping mall, or sea front area, or into town.

It was rather like an upmarket Bangkok. The island is crowded and cramped with much high rise accommodation, too much traffic, though not too much nightlife - which is very localised to one particular area and relatively expensive, as were most things compared to Thailand.

There wouldn't be any of the same type of social interaction with local people, as with girls in bars/massage shops etc., that one gets in Thailand. So it would be a more sober life style in all respects! (Don't get me wrong, the people are friendly, but there isn't the laugh and joke, type of behaviour you get in LOS).

On the positive side, things were very well structured and the traffic, driving standards and the roads a joy to behold, (I never saw anyone on a motorbike without a helmet, even once when I saw 3 on one bike, - they each had a helmet!). But the inner city rat race just didn't appeal, which is predominantly what it is!

Yes, Penang has a very British influenced feel about it, but it is nevertheless a busy working city environment. At the weekend it receives a large influx of Malaysian and other tourists and visitors.

What is worth noting is that the MM2H Visa scheme is available to people over 50, putting RM 150K in a Malaysian bank account, and demonstrating that you have at least another RM 350K+ cash somewhere else. You can then get a 10 year Visa (multiple exit and re-entry) - you don't need to buy property there if you don't want to. You don't even have to stay there, if you don't want to. You could rent, live away and/or just visit from time to time, whatever!

The guy I spoke to, said that the adjoining mainland Malaysia (i.e. Butterworth) would be too quiet and lacking in facilities, particularly nightlife and too parochial (my phrase). Obviously KL would only mirror the inner city life, - densely populated and heavily trafficked. Elsewhere - i.e. more remote places in Malaysia would likely only exacerbate the lack of facilities, nightlife, etc, situation.

Certainly English is widely spoken and there were many English language programmes on TV.

(I was a little concerned to also see TV programmes with young Muslim children holding well orchestrated, detailed and serious conversations (whilst in the park or on the beach) - during which they were speaking directly to the camera and often nodding in agreement with each other, and during which, I noted in the sub-titles and heard names like Iraq, Baghdad, Palestine, Syria and Jordan mentioned. The rest of the content I do not know.)

So all in all, I don't think Penang or Malaysia is for me. I think one must look for somewhere that has not yet been discovered, rather than somewhere that has already, or long since, been discovered and is now suffering the consequences and commercialisation, as is Phuket!!

PS. I stayed at both the Malaysia and the Continental Hotels, good locations, but right on top of the noisy nightlife!

Thanks for taking the time to compile your post.

Have spent a little bit of time on Penang myself,and agree 100% with everything you have said.

Will have to put up with the Visa hassles of Thailand i guess,it is a much more laid back and friendlier place to live.

[Nautilus]

Agree with your experience. I wont even choose to live in Penang.

[ATMwalking]

Great summary of your investigation.

Unfortunately I just don't get the right feeling in Malaysia and I'm happy to leave. Just the wrong vibe for me. Too bad as it should really be a better version of Phuket (kinda like what you were exploring I think).

[nelsonone]

yep....been to penang myself a few times and took a look around at a longer tem stay/investment properties etc....

It's too boring and just isn't LOS.......plus the muslim law does bother me more than slightly too!!

[Nautilus]

Originally Posted by nelsonone

yep....been to penang myself a few times and took a look around at a longer tem stay/investment properties etc....

It's too boring and just isn't LOS.......plus the muslim law does bother me more than slightly too!!

I am just curious to know, how does the Muslim law affect the expats?

I know there are some cases, some made public.

But how does it affect you in your daily lives?

[dennisinkamala]

I have actually decided o go ahead with the 2nd home programme although I agree with much of the observations about Penang.
My final take on it is that I can relax in Penang and just an hour aay is Phuket with all those attractions.
The muslim thing dos concern me but, the mix of religions apparently harmoniously co-existing in Georgetown somewhat settles me.
My idea is to have the best of both worlds, if thats possible and I found the property prices in Penang much beter than Phuket with the quality of build and filltings much better. Gurney Drive and Batu Ferringhi (excuse spelling) do appear to be the main areas for expats but, even here, a good 2 bed apartment in secure compaound can be rented for as little as 15000 per month, all in.
I will be spending some time there in January after a month in Kamala so will get a more immediate feel of the differences, I think.
I guess its each to his own but, I may yet change my mind too!!
Great report, thanks.

[Capt. Fantastic]

From my rather limited perspective I think Malaysia would be a good base from which to operate. For one thing I have enjoyed my time in KL.

Three months here, three months there, then three months somewhere else. I would most likely have to return to the US at least once a year-- if only to build up frequent flier miles! Ahem...

So the MM2H program looks workable for me. Things are just too unsettled in Thailand as discussed endlessly elsewhere.