Moving to Singapore

[White Nancy]

OK girls and boys. An update.

Sorry it's been so long, but until the co laptop arrived, internet access has been sporadic.

The legal issues have gone fairly smoothly and a girl from the office is collecting my Employment Pass and the wife's Dependants Pass today. We'd have had them sooner but for the need for those "O" Level results they insisted on. Got the letter from AQA (the new-ish private exam people who also archive old stuff) sent directly to HR here, which saved some time. It's arrived OK and cost a mere 180 quid! The wife is entitled to apply for an Employment Pass on the back of her Dependant Pass but as she'll be regularly flitting back to the UK, it's hardly worth it.

We're still looking at areas to live in but we're in Toa Payoh at the moment and starting to quite like the place. We've looked at a few other areas but some have been a bit far from easy MRT access. We are 20 minutes from the office including walking time and only 3 stops from Orchard whilst being nicely out of the way. So we might stay around here, but still looking. Holland Village - described as "trendy", always a worry - is out as being too full of ex-pats and their brats, no offence to anyone who lives there!

Diz sums the place up pretty well as far as generalities goes and so far, I don't regret the move for a second. Drink is expensive at bars but I need to re-hydrate and only cold beer will do, so I have rationalised things! As also said, food is good and cheap which sort of offsets things a bit. I've also noticed a welcome weakening in the housing market and have extended the stay in the company apartment to see how things progress.

I'll keep you up to date on the apartment hunt, but so far, so good!

[astreal]

Toa payoh is probably one of the most convinient place in Singapore. The MRT is the key point i guess. There is no MRT in holland v at the moment, probably another 5 more years. Hope the weather isn't killing you yet. Even i am melting like a ice-cream. The weather recently is really humid and hot.

[White Nancy]

I'm fairly lucky in that I seem to acclimatise reasonably quickly. I can walk more than 10 yards without dissolving now. Probably about 15! The wife spends the day in the pool so the heat's not too much of a trial for her.

Just received passports back complete with passes. Surprised to see we've got 2 years straight off. I thought the first was for 12 months. Still, no visa runs to bother with and I'm not complaining.

[Nautilus]

Gald everything is working out smoothly.

The weather is really killing me now. Wish i had a pool.

[White Nancy]

Right, looking for some thoughts here from those who know.

The real estate agent picked us up on Saturday morning and we viewed NINE properties in arouond two and a half hours. Not bad going considering she kept missing turnings!

Whilst this was going on, a thought struck me as she was talking about negotiating rents. The system, as outlined earlier by Diz is that you pay your agent a commission of 1 months rent for a 1 year lease and 2 months for two years. The owner pays the same to his agent.

This begs the question of where is the incentive for my agent to negotiate me the best price? It seems to me that the more rent I pay, the better she does. To counter this, I'm thinking of offering either a fixed price or a sort of reverse commission, where the better she does for me, the more I pay her. Has anyone else tried this approach in Singapore, or anywhere else for that matter. And has it been successful?

[astreal]

There is a different way of looking at it. You set a valuation on any apartment that you want and relay it to her that this is the price you are willing to deal and you really want it, then it's up to her ability to reach that target. She will definately try her best to close the deal. Cause at the end of the days, if no deal is struck, she earns nothing. It's really normal to have more than 1 agent here in singapore. That way, let them fight it out and see who gets you the best deal.

[White Nancy]

Fair point and well made Astreal. We'll see how we get on over the next few days.

We have seen two apartments we like so far, mainly because we liked one and the other is in the same block and identical, just on a different floor! Saw another I really liked, around a three minute walk from the office, but it was just way too small and as it was the biggest in the block, that location's ruled out.

The wife's out with the agent again as I type, to have another look at the ones we like and to see another three. The two I fancy are actually in the Toa Payoh apartment block we're currently in so if we took one, moving won't be an issue! I'm trying to get things sorted out by the end of the month as I'm due in OZ for a while then.

The main problem I had with Toa Payoh was the distinct lack of bars but, I'm pleased to say we've found one in the vicinity, others just one MRT stop away in Novena and of course the fleshpots (?) of Orchard are only three stops. So we're just about getting by.

Just to add to Diz's likes/dislikes the one thing that really gets me here (Asia generally now I think, not just Singapore) is the way that everyone tries to cram onto trains or lifts without waiting for anyone to get out. I've just been down for a smoke outside the office and nearly flattened a little chinese guy who must have been waiting for the lift with his nose literally up against the doors. I know all the stations have got signs up and painted lines on the floor but virtually no-one takes any notice whatsoever. Apart from that, I love the place, the people and the food and can't see returning to the UK any time soon.

[astreal]

Hahahaha..... The bar situation here is little different, they are usually not located in the main housing district. Our local version of a bar in the housing district is the kopitiam(coffeeshop), foodcourt or hawker centre where majority of the mid forties uncles hang out. The nice bars are majority located in town areas. Holland Village has quite a few good ones too. Maybe you and your missus can try Dempsey area. Feel free to msg me regarding nice places for food and drinks. =)

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by White Nancy

...Whilst this was going on, a thought struck me as she was talking about negotiating rents. The system, as outlined earlier by Diz is that you pay your agent a commission of 1 months rent for a 1 year lease and 2 months for two years. The owner pays the same to his agent...

This only should apply when the rent is less than $2,500 per month. I posted a link earlier which confirms this in one of my earlier posts. (Click here).

Also, make sure you check the Lease back against the Letter of Intent. I was not so careful and the nice little clause that stated I had the option to extend my lease for a further year at the same rental price, somehow managed to disappear off the Lease. After I had signed, I noticed this and gave my agent a good bollocking, but he just shrugged his shoulders and smiled. The rental on my place has risen something like $1,500 a month so that mistake will cost me a lot of money in the long run.

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by astreal

Hahhahaha...... I find the door thingy very amusing. I guess thats why more and more places have automatic sliding doors. I didnt noticed that till you mentioned it...

Originally Posted by White Nancy

...Just to add to Diz's likes/dislikes the one thing that really gets me here (Asia generally now I think, not just Singapore) is the way that everyone tries to cram onto trains or lifts without waiting for anyone to get out. I've just been down for a smoke outside the office and nearly flattened a little chinese guy who must have been waiting for the lift with his nose literally up against the doors. I know all the stations have got signs up and painted lines on the floor but virtually no-one takes any notice whatsoever...

I have found that it's best to just avoid eye contact and continue as normal - they "bounce" off you quite well.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by White Nancy

Just to add to Diz's likes/dislikes the one thing that really gets me here (Asia generally now I think, not just Singapore) is the way that everyone tries to cram onto trains or lifts without waiting for anyone to get out. I've just been down for a smoke outside the office and nearly flattened a little chinese guy who must have been waiting for the lift with his nose literally up against the doors. I know all the stations have got signs up and painted lines on the floor but virtually no-one takes any notice whatsoever. Apart from that, I love the place, the people and the food and can't see returning to the UK any time soon.

ugh....my office building has a Chinese consulate or soemthing
i deal with this everytime im exiting elevator

[Thin White Duke]

Thanks for all the great info y'all.

Can anyone comment a bit on the overall job market?
I guess it's pretty closed to Europeans?
Do you find successful entrepeneurs around or is it a case of having to go over with a multi-national?
I know Les is in the Oil and Gas type of business,just wondering about the rest of you?

[White Nancy]

Originally Posted by Thin White Duke

Thanks for all the great info y'all.

Can anyone comment a bit on the overall job market?
I guess it's pretty closed to Europeans?
Do you find successful entrepeneurs around or is it a case of having to go over with a multi-national?
I know Les is in the Oil and Gas type of business,just wondering about the rest of you?

Speaking from little experience of Singapore, I'd say it's a lot more open to Europeans than either Thailand or Malaysia. The latter seems to get worse by the day. Yesterdays paper carried an article that it was being proposed to up the subsidies on fuel for Malaysians, but charge full price to foreigners.

I'm with a multinational in the rail industry and as stated in an earlier post I was amazed how simple and quick the Employment Pass process was. I also believe they do a specific permit for entrepeneurs. The various Singapore gov websites are helpful.

[White Nancy]

Hope I'm not counting chickens here, but we may have the housing issue cracked.

Went to look at an apartment yesteray afternoon and liked it. Made an offer on the rent which was accepted an hour later. My agent prepared the Letter of Intent and fired it off last night, she's coming into the office today to collect the various cheques, so then we're just waiting on the Landlord's crowd for a response.

Thanks to Diz, I double checked that the agreed rent was for the full two years and note that there is a specific clause in the LOI to this effect. I'll check the lease when I see it too. Cheers for that!

Having said before that we liked Toa Payoh, the new place is off Serangoon Road at the north end of Little India, but in terms of size and facilities (3 beds, big light rooms, huge pool etc), gives us far more bang for our buck than anything else we've seen. Good job I love curry!

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by Thin White Duke

Thanks for all the great info y'all.

Can anyone comment a bit on the overall job market?
I guess it's pretty closed to Europeans?
Do you find successful entrepeneurs around or is it a case of having to go over with a multi-national?
I know Les is in the Oil and Gas type of business,just wondering about the rest of you?

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Singapore is in desperate need for foreign workers, but there is definitely plenty of opportunity here. The only dependency would be on the area of expertise from what I can see.

I am in the IT industry working as a Business Analyst, which means I know the business and how our system works but naff all about programming. The client I am currently working for is a very large (tier 1) Eurpoean bank and they cannot get enough staff on board at present, local or foreign. There are also other large European banks that I know are expanding and this is one of the reasons my company is doing well down here.

Getting a job with a company here is probably the easiest and most convenient way (for the employee) of getting in to Singapore, but I know plenty of people who work on a contract basis and have no trouble getting work.

[astreal]

Originally Posted by White Nancy

Hope I'm not counting chickens here, but we may have the housing issue cracked.

Went to look at an apartment yesteray afternoon and liked it. Made an offer on the rent which was accepted an hour later. My agent prepared the Letter of Intent and fired it off last night, she's coming into the office today to collect the various cheques, so then we're just waiting on the Landlord's crowd for a response.

Thanks to Diz, I double checked that the agreed rent was for the full two years and note that there is a specific clause in the LOI to this effect. I'll check the lease when I see it too. Cheers for that!

Having said before that we liked Toa Payoh, the new place is off Serangoon Road at the north end of Little India, but in terms of size and facilities (3 beds, big light rooms, huge pool etc), gives us far more bang for our buck than anything else we've seen. Good job I love curry!

The only down side to probably staying in Serangoon is during weekend it will be darn crowded. It's the area patronized by the foreign workers and there will be loads and loads of them! Buses will be slow due to the crowd and jam. Hopefully your place is near the MRT station so it won't be too much of a hassle.

[White Nancy]

Yeah, I know what you mean. We were there last Sunday night. As you say, crowded! However, we're just across the road from Farrer Park MRT, so we should be able to escape OK.

As said in an earlier post, the place just has too much going for it in the way of size and facilities compared to the price to be put off by a bit of weekend inconvenience. It's only two years old and immaculate, yet considerably cheaper and bigger than any we saw at Toa Payoh or Bishan. This may be because others are put off by the proximity to Little India and the point you made about crowds, but I can't say it bothers us too much.

Just hoping the paperwork stuff all goes OK now. I'm not sure I'm ready for another "Real Estate Challenge Dash" or how many apartments can you see in the shortest possible time, quite yet!

[astreal]

The plus point is there are plently of good food in that area within, though not too sure if you would like them. Mustaffa is nearby which you could get lots of bargain stuff and pool will come in handy in weather like this!

Glad that things are going smoothly for you.

[White Nancy]

Originally Posted by astreal

The plus point is there are plently of good food in that area within, though not too sure if you would like them. Mustaffa is nearby which you could get lots of bargain stuff and pool will come in handy in weather like this!

Glad that things are going smoothly for you.

We love Indian food and we're eating in a cheapo banana leaf resturant the other night, so we're happy with that side of things.

We found out last night that the landlord has signed the Letter of Intent so it's all systems go now. We move on the 1st of June although the wife will be back in the UK then and as I've no idea where I'll be (Australia, I think) we'll have to look at the logistics. As it's mainly clothes being shifted, I can dump stuff here in the office if I'm going to be away and do the moving when I return, so no real problem.

just got to sort out utilities and internet connection now and we're away. Still undecided about whether to bother with a motor. I don't need one for the commute but it would be nice to have one on standby for odd trips round and about. I'll probably wait a while and then maybe have a look at a weekend car so we can get around off-peak. Don't know yet, hiring's still a possibility.

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by White Nancy

...just got to sort out utilities and internet connection now and we're away...

Internet on the expensive side compared to back home (UK). I have the 100Mbs broadband package from StarHub but it's not as quick as you would think. If you get it, then you need to pay $500 for a special modem. The basic package (8MBs I think) is slow and I've not tried the middle one (16Mbs ?).

For the utilities, the agent should sort all that out for you. Mine did.

Originally Posted by White Nancy

... Still undecided about whether to bother with a motor. I don't need one for the commute but it would be nice to have one on standby for odd trips round and about. I'll probably wait a while and then maybe have a look at a weekend car so we can get around off-peak. Don't know yet, hiring's still a possibility.

I have been here 16 months and the only time I wanted a car, was to nip down to 7/11 to get some milk etc. As you are centrally located, just use taxis. They will work out far cheaper than getting a car.

Buying a car is not as straight forward as you might think, getting a "weekend runaround" won't be like back home. The registration for cars is expensive and there's some clause about them not being kept after they are 10 years old. Have a look around, you won't see any "old" cars.

Best suggestion I think, is to do some research on the "car situation" in Singapore before making your mind up. I live out near the airport and the peak taxi cost from the Central Business District to my place is less than $25. Cars are convenient, but for me the cost outweighs the convenience factor.

[dizbuster]

Buying a car in Singapore - this link should help you understand better what I was trying to say above.

[Simbo]

I did the following today with 'barging'- as I rammed my elbow in the chest of the indian man with BO when he tried to push past I said 'I'm sorry, am I in your way?' This was followed by me 'accidently' stepping on his foot. He didn't push past when we got off at Dhoby Ghaht. Not sure why!!

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Simbo

I did the following today with 'barging'- as I rammed my elbow in the chest of the indian man with BO when he tried to push past I said 'I'm sorry, am I in your way?' This was followed by me 'accidently' stepping on his foot. He didn't push past when we got off at Dhoby Ghaht. Not sure why!!

i clotheslined about 4 Chinese granmothers at the track the other day 5555

[astreal]

Originally Posted by dizbuster

Internet on the expensive side compared to back home (UK). I have the 100Mbs broadband package from StarHub but it's not as quick as you would think. If you get it, then you need to pay $500 for a special modem. The basic package (8MBs I think) is slow and I've not tried the middle one (16Mbs ?).

For the utilities, the agent should sort all that out for you. Mine did.

I have been here 16 months and the only time I wanted a car, was to nip down to 7/11 to get some milk etc. As you are centrally located, just use taxis. They will work out far cheaper than getting a car.

Buying a car is not as straight forward as you might think, getting a "weekend runaround" won't be like back home. The registration for cars is expensive and there's some clause about them not being kept after they are 10 years old. Have a look around, you won't see any "old" cars.

Best suggestion I think, is to do some research on the "car situation" in Singapore before making your mind up. I live out near the airport and the peak taxi cost from the Central Business District to my place is less than $25. Cars are convenient, but for me the cost outweighs the convenience factor.

500 for a modem?!?! Thats really expensive. I got my modem for free when i sign the contract to use their service for 1 year. I got a special discount for using the 3 services of starhub. It's call the hub club. In total my bills for mobile, cable tv and internet rounds up to about $160. The only thing that really pissed me off about starhub is the monopoly of English premier league. The cost for my Sports channel alone is 25 bucks. One of the commentator for football cahnnel call bugsy is rubbish! I prefer the ESPN team much more.

[astreal]

Originally Posted by Simbo

I did the following today with 'barging'- as I rammed my elbow in the chest of the indian man with BO when he tried to push past I said 'I'm sorry, am I in your way?' This was followed by me 'accidently' stepping on his foot. He didn't push past when we got off at Dhoby Ghaht. Not sure why!!

That indian man is definately at fault but it doesn't justify you stepping his foot and ramming your elbow into his chest. This happens on a daily basis in singapore, most people just shrugged it off. There is no need for searching trouble and antagonizing people. Everybody is brought up differently, some of these indian are probably fresh off the ship from the India where jostling is perfectly normal.

Remember when in Rome, do what the romans do. You are long way from home!

[White Nancy]

Diz, as my current taxi fare is less that S$10 to the office, and I expect it to be less when we move, you are probably right. I think that just hiring a car for to odd time we want to get away is probably the answer. More often than not we'd be heading out of Singapore anyway and flying is a more attractive alternative to driving (to KL for example). I'm also aware that some hire companies don't allow you to take vehicles out of the country, so I'd need to check that Malaysia is OK.

I'll have to look into the internet issue and get the agent on the utilities.

Astreal, can you get internet without having to have cable TV? We didn't have a tele in the UK and have sort of got out of the habit of bothering. I'm quite happy to find a bar to watch rugby or F1 - any excuse!

Had another wander round Little India last night. Got 100% lost until we suddenly found ourselves facing Serangoon Plaza. Claiming the credit for a fine piece of navigation, calls for a celebration were answered with a fine curry and ice cold Tiger!

On the likes and dislikes; when I was walking to the MRT this morning, it struck me I haven't yet seen a single dog turd since we got here and there's a high dog ownership in the HDB apartments near us. You don't have to spend all your time looking at the ground when you walk. Very pleasant.

[astreal]

Sure! There are always a few good offers given by starhub even without cable tv. Can check their webbie. Free modems, router or even a laptop.

Singapore dogs prefer to shit in the HDB apartments, they are not used to doing it in the public. Shy maybe?!? Anyway from what i know most dog owners usually pick the turds up even if it does happen outside.

[Simbo]

Originally Posted by astreal

That indian man is definately at fault but it doesn't justify you stepping his foot and ramming your elbow into his chest. This happens on a daily basis in singapore, most people just shrugged it off. There is no need for searching trouble and antagonizing people. Everybody is brought up differently, some of these indian are probably fresh off the ship from the India where jostling is perfectly normal.

Remember when in Rome, do what the romans do. You are long way from home!

Thank you for the lecture on egg-sucking. I have spent 20 years on and off in the Far East and don't see why I should put up with rudeness there or anywhere else. If encouraging people to be courteous is a sin then I am a sinner. At the end of the day he had assaulted me and I have the right to self defence. What if it had been a person he barged into the gap between the train and the platform- maybe he'll think twice now. Anyway I'm off into the streets of KL now to knock old ladies over.

PS my home is in Thailand and its only about 800km away

[astreal]

Wow! Assaulted?!?! Thats a little too strong of a word eh. Nothing wrong wth encouraging but i don't think elbowing and stepping on someone feet is considered encouraging. 20 years on and off in the Far East probably didn't taught you anything. Where you are staying now might be thailand but it means nothing if you are acting like this. Have fun in KL! Do knock down some old ladies and see what happens.... They might actually think you are teaching people to be courteous.

[White Nancy]

Just to get off the subject of assault for a minute, I've spoken to the agent and she's sorting out the whole utilities bit and internet/phone etc. That's another job saved! She's earned her money this girlie, she really has worked hard for me.

I suppose being the preferred agent for a multi-national consultancy is a position she wants to keep but I can certainly recommend her to anyone else thinking of relocating here.

Now that we're nearly (fingers crossed) done and dusted, I have to admit that the whole move here has been a lot easier than I expected, from the Employment Pass process to new apartment. I have to admit that I have had excellent support from my company which has certainly made things easier. It may have been a different story without. I also have the advantage of not shipping any effects from the UK and have rented fully furnished, so that's undoubtably helped also.

Hope this thread has been useful for anyone else contemplating the move here in the future.

Just need to get the UK driving licence converted now, I better get reading, it's been a while since I touched a highway code.

OK, back to the manners/assault debate!

[astreal]

That is really good service. Kudos to her. Thats really extra effort taken. Anyway i am done with debating. Simbo is entitled to his own opinion while i am entitled to my own. Point taken. At the end of the day we are all trying to lead our own life and be happy.

[astreal]

On the another note to white Nancy

The first F1 night race will be held in Singapore this september and it's a street circuit. Not too sure if all the tickets are sold out but you can try. I think it will be some hell of a event!

[White Nancy]

I'd like F1 tickets, but I've no idea which country I'll be in when the race is on. One of the downsides of a job involving travel I suppose.

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by astreal

500 for a modem?!?! Thats really expensive. I got my modem for free when i sign the contract to use their service for 1 year. I got a special discount for using the 3 services of starhub. It's call the hub club. In total my bills for mobile, cable tv and internet rounds up to about $160...

I have the 100Mb line and to get the full benefit (100Mb ?? Nah !!) StarHub say you must buy a special modem and it costs $500. Funnily enough they are the only ones who sell the modem, but i did get it checked out on a local forum and the tekkie fellas there said it was right and that they held all the aces. Either pay up or else go back down to the 8 or 16Mb lines.

My total bill each month is $215, which includes said 100Mb connection, most of the film channels and all the sports channels including the football channel, but not the cricket or horse racing ones.

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by astreal

500 for a modem?!?!...

I have just checked and it has now dropped to $300. Modems