Moving to Singapore

[White Nancy]

Handed my notice in at work this week and expect to be in Singapore at the end of April, with a little diversion to HK for a quick conference. Really looking forward to the move and getting out of the UK for good.

My new company will put us up in a serviced apartment for the first month, so we've got some time to get our bearings and decide whereabouts we'd like to live etc.

Strangely, despite travelling to, and working in Asia for the last four years or so, the most I've seen of Singapore is Changi, so moving there should prove an interesting challenge. Had it been KL or BKK, I would have known pretty much where we would want to live, this is a bit more of an unknown quantity.

Looking forward to exploring the bars and beaches, just not looking forward to dealing with the real estate agents! I'll describe the ups and downs as we go through the process for any others contemplating the move.

The first thing I've noticed are the internet property listings. When we were looking at BKK last year, the properties are all listed with full details, photographs etc., which gave a good feel for the place you were looking at. Those (at least those I've looked at so far) covering Singapore have only very basic details and the photos are almost exclusively exterior shots with maybe one of a pool thrown in. Very helpful.

Will keep you posted on progress.

[Nautilus]

All the best !!!

[marc26]

funny, a lot of these just had exterior shots
but there were some with internal pictures

singapore craigslist > apts/housing for rent: search

[Denver]

Yep, keep us posted WN, let us know how you got on over there, interesting to know.

Good luck for a hassle free move.

[White Nancy]

Thanks guys.

The move won't be too bad hopefully (famous last words) as we're not shipping a load of stuff from the UK. Just clothes mainly and a few odds and sods. The wife will be travelling back to the UK fairly regularly to see her parents who are knocking on a bit now, so we're keeping the house here for a while. It also means we have a bolt hole if things go t*ts-up.

Already had our first dealings with an agent who was recommended by my new company. I gave her some outline requirements, number of bedrooms, close to MRT, rent min/max, fairly loose on location etc., and the response was - imagine the mechanic, looking under the bonnet (hood) of your car, sucking in breath whilst shaking head - "we dont get many properties at that price, you may have to go higher". Yet when I did a property search with the same requirements, I got over 2000 hits. I'm making the assumption here that they work on a % of rent as commission from the landlord. I think some good old fashioned legwork may be required!

Thanks for the Craiglist link, I'd forgotten about that site.

[astreal]

It's really a bad time to be renting or buying property right now in sg. It's quite expensive, hope you do find a good one!

[White Nancy]

Some good possibilities on Craiglist in the price range I'm looking at. Also got a couple of other agents on the case, so we'll see. I can extend the initial serviced apartment the company provide if I want to wait a bit and see what happens to rents etc.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by White Nancy

Some good possibilities on Craiglist in the price range I'm looking at. Also got a couple of other agents on the case, so we'll see. I can extend the initial serviced apartment the company provide if I want to wait a bit and see what happens to rents etc.

are those not overpriced??
last year i stayed in, what we call in states as corportate apartments, in NYC for 4 months last year
for a decent one bedroom, we paid 5kusd/mo

[dizbuster]

Expect to pay around $3,000 for a modest 2 bedroom place and around $4,500 for a decent 3 bedroom place.

Here's the best site I know of which has details of nearly all places SingaporeExpats

I signed a 2 year lease on a 3 bedroom place out near the airport last February (2007) for $2,300 a month. The current going price for the same place is $3,800 and it's nothing special. 3 bedrooms but basic in a reasonable area, but quite a way from the centre.

Landlords will want you to sign up for a minimum of 2 years and will want 2 months deposit, plus rent in advance, i.e. you need to pay 3 month's rent before you move in.

The housing market shot up last year (see above comment regarding my rent) and seems to be stalling at present. There's a lot of construction work currently going on and prices are expected to come down later this year / start of next year when a lot more new accommodation hits the market.

Commission for agents varies, I had to pay 1 month's rent to mine because the rental price was below $2,500 a month. I was told that had I rented a place for more than this, then the landlord would have paid it. Also, be careful as they do things a strange way here - it's not very transparent. There's a central database which all agents use and it may not (almost certainly not) the case that the same agent represents the landlord and you. This means 2 lots of commission !! Make sure you become familiar with the way it works before you agree to anything, the locals love ripping off the foreigners !!

Good luck.

[K2]

Originally Posted by dizbuster

Also, be careful as they do things a strange way here - it's not very transparent. There's a central database which all agents use and it may not (almost certainly not) the case that the same agent represents the landlord and you. This means 2 lots of commission !! Make sure you become familiar with the way it works before you agree to anything, the locals love ripping off the foreigners !!

Good luck.

Good advice from Diz - despite all the rules and regs Singapore does have is free wheeling side especially when it comes to foreigners.

Wish you well with your move.

[Nautilus]

Yes the 2 lots of commission are common. 1% fr the Landlord and i think 1/2 month rent from you.

[White Nancy]

Thanks for the commission heads-up Diz. I thought I'd understood what went on, so this is just another thing to watch out for. I was aware of the S$2,500threshold for commission payments, but not the double charging.

Interesting point about a splurge of property hitting later in the year. It's for this reason I may extend the time in a serviced apartment before signing a lease until the situation becomes clearer. It would also give us time to be sure we like it and settle on an area we want to live in.

I'm looking in the S$3-5k/month area and we don't want something huge so I should stand half a chance when the time comes. To be honest, what I save over there in UK tax will pay the lions share of living expenses.

Just waiting for a start date now and then that's me outta here!

Thanks again.

WN

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by White Nancy

Thanks for the commission heads-up Diz. I thought I'd understood what went on, so this is just another thing to watch out for. I was aware of the S$2,500threshold for commission payments, but not the double charging.

Interesting point about a splurge of property hitting later in the year. It's for this reason I may extend the time in a serviced apartment before signing a lease until the situation becomes clearer. It would also give us time to be sure we like it and settle on an area we want to live in.

I'm looking in the S$3-5k/month area and we don't want something huge so I should stand half a chance when the time comes. To be honest, what I save over there in UK tax will pay the lions share of living expenses.

Just waiting for a start date now and then that's me outta here!

Thanks again.

WN

If you any questions, send me a PM and I will either answer them or point you in the right direction as best I can.

[White Nancy]

Thanks for that Diz, will do.

[dizbuster]

Just found this on my lunch break trundle through the internet...

IEA - Institute of Estate Agents

If you open the pdf you will see that item 2.3 covers commission for Rentals and states the following...

Landlords
"One (1) month's gross rental for lease of first twelve (12) months

or up to twenty four (24) months, and an additional one half (1/2)
a month's gross rental for every subsequent twelve (12) months'
lease or less.

One half (1/2) of a month's gross rental for less than twelve (12)
months’ lease."

Tenants
"For cases where the gross monthly rental is $2,500 or less

One half (1/2) of a month's gross rental for less than twelve (12)

months’ lease.

One (1) month’s gross rental for lease of first twelve (12) months
or up to twenty four (24) months."

This only covers CRS accredited agents. Beware offers from Taxi Drivers and other such offers from people who are agents in their spare time. I'm not saying they are bad, just that they won't necessarily be covered by the above. They may very well be honest people just trying to make a few extra dollars, but better "safe than sorry" in my opinion.

[Denver]

After a slow start to the thread some great info coming through.

Nice one Diz.

Keep us posted WN on the move.

[White Nancy]

Originally Posted by Denver

After a slow start to the thread some great info coming through.

Nice one Diz.

Keep us posted WN on the move.

Concur with the above comments. Very useful.

Things a bit slow at the moment. I finish work in the UK at the end of the month and I am waiting for a start date with the new lot. The guy I need to talk to is currently somewhere between Brazil and Oz so we're talking on Tuesday. I know I'm in HK 28th-30th April, so it'll be before then.

Just had to spend £180 on retreiving "O" level certificates. I took the exams 36 years ago, so god knows where the originals are. But the qualifications are on the Work Permit form, so apparently, they have to be produced!

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by White Nancy

...Just had to spend £180 on retreiving "O" level certificates. I took the exams 36 years ago, so god knows where the originals are. But the qualifications are on the Work Permit form, so apparently, they have to be produced!

It will be like that all the time - they love to "dot the i's and cross the t's".

I wouldn't worry to much though, I got a P1 no problem with just 4 GCE O Levels and a level 1 City & Guilds. The first WP is likely to be just for 1 year, whicvh is usual practice from what I've been told. When I got it renewed in December 2007, they gave me a renewal for 2 years.

[White Nancy]

A little progress.

I don't actually start work until the end of the month but the company has just agreed to fund the accommodation from earlier to give us some extra free time for orientation and apartment hunting. So we're looking to be there around the 14th April which will give us 2 weeks before I go to HK for 3 days, and a week afterwards free and clear. At least we can get the ball rolling.

In the midst of visiting banks at the moment with a view to a single provider for for UK, Singapore and offshore accounts. Think we've settled on one and will visit them on Monday to see if they provide everything we want.

As I look out of the window at the cra**y UK weather, I can't wait to get there now. Getting out of the clutches of the UK taxman isn't hurting much either ( , not!).

[ub2yoo]

Originally Posted by White Nancy

A little progress.

I don't actually start work until the end of the month but the company has just agreed to fund the accommodation from earlier to give us some extra free time for orientation and apartment hunting. So we're looking to be there around the 14th April which will give us 2 weeks before I go to HK for 3 days, and a week afterwards free and clear. At least we can get the ball rolling.

In the midst of visiting banks at the moment with a view to a single provider for for UK, Singapore and offshore accounts. Think we've settled on one and will visit them on Monday to see if they provide everything we want.

As I look out of the window at the cra**y UK weather, I can't wait to get there now. Getting out of the clutches of the UK taxman isn't hurting much either ( , not!).

Keep it up WN;-) ...I can imagine it's a very annoying long carpet of Red Tape till you get there, but then again, when do you ever have a chance to walk over it

Keep posting, I can only see myself moving the same directions in let's say 2-3 years.

[astreal]

I think you will love it hear in singapore. We have our good and bad but from what i know, nobody has ever complain about their stay in here. =) If you need a pointers feel free to private msg me.

[ub2yoo]

Originally Posted by astreal

I think you will love it hear in singapore. We have our good and bad but from what i know, nobody has ever complain about their stay in here. =) If you need a pointers feel free to private msg me.

Where do you come from originally Astreal, and how long have you been in Singapore?

[astreal]

I am born and bred in this tiny island! =)

[White Nancy]

Originally Posted by astreal

I think you will love it hear in singapore. We have our good and bad but from what i know, nobody has ever complain about their stay in here. =) If you need a pointers feel free to private msg me.

Thanks for the offer Astreal. I may just take you up on some hints.

Now I can't normally find a lot about British bureaucracy to get enthusiastic about, but hats off to the Passport service. My wife's was due to expire in October, so it needed renewing but, we also needed it for ID when opening bank accounts etc. So a couple of weeks ago, we filled in the online form which they then posted to us ready completed. I then made an appointment with the Passport office in Liverpool for last Thursday. We arrived at 10:20 for a 10:30 slot, handed over the form, 2 photos (no countersignature required any more for a straightforward renewal) and the old passport, paid, told to return at 14:30 to collect the new passport and were out by 10:35. I pulled up outside the office again at 14:45, the wife nipped in and was out again 5 minutes later. Job done! It seems they grade applications and only certain ones are eligable for same day service, you also MUST have an appointment so you don't get the huge melee that you used to see.

Singapore flights now booked for middle of April and I'm just sorting out who I need to tell I'm going and working through the list. I'll post further on this later in case it's any use to those in the UK thinking of doing one.

[White Nancy]

Just a quick update.

All the required bank accounts opened in Singapore, offshore and the UK, organised all the paperwork we'll need and done all those last minute jobs round the house here, so we're (theoretically) ready to go.

Fly tomorrow morning and arrive in Singapore on Monday. A couple of days chilling and then the apartment hunting starts in earnest.

I'm ready to go now but the wife is having understandable doubts which I'm sure will disappear over the next few weeks.

The first few days will be spent exploring around and hopefully settling on a couple of areas to concentrate on that we'd like to live.

There'll be more, if slightly sporadic, updates as we progress, or not, as the case may be.

[dizbuster]

Weather update - we're currently going through a monsoon type period, lots of thunderstorms and rain, with not too much sunshine. Hopefully things will clear up over the next few weeks. Last year, I don't recall much rain at all from the start of February right through to September but this year has been a lot wetter.

Some mildly good news on the housing front, prices do appear to be dropping a little and I have noticed some "bargains" starting to appear on the websites that show the rental database so hopefully it won't be too expensive.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by White Nancy

Just a quick update.

All the required bank accounts opened in Singapore, offshore and the UK, organised all the paperwork we'll need and done all those last minute jobs round the house here, so we're (theoretically) ready to go.

Fly tomorrow morning and arrive in Singapore on Monday. A couple of days chilling and then the apartment hunting starts in earnest.

I'm ready to go now but the wife is having understandable doubts which I'm sure will disappear over the next few weeks.

The first few days will be spent exploring around and hopefully settling on a couple of areas to concentrate on that we'd like to live.

There'll be more, if slightly sporadic, updates as we progress, or not, as the case may be.

what will your wife do?
is she allowed to work under your work permit?

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by marc26

what will your wife do?
is she allowed to work under your work permit?

55555 !! You're having tin barf !!

Unless you apply for and get your own WP or else become Permanent Resident (wife can be put on husband's application), you are not allowed to work as a foreigner in Singapore.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by dizbuster

55555 !! You're having tin barf !!

Unless you apply for and get your own WP or else become Permanent Resident (wife can be put on husband's application), you are not allowed to work as a foreigner in Singapore.

here in Canada, your wife gets an "open work permit" under your work permit which allows her to work or go to school

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by marc26

here in Canada, your wife gets an "open work permit" under your work permit which allows her to work or go to school

I have gone back and re-read the rules.

When you apply for an employment pass, you can at the same time apply for Dependent's passes for your wife and children, or Long Term Social Visit Passes (LTSVP) for common law wife, step children, parents etc.

My TGF has got a LTSVP (as common law wife) and I looked in to the whole employment aspect, but she cannot work.

My initial answer was not correct as with a Dependent's pass, you can work but you have to additionally apply for a Letter of Consent. With the work ethic being what it is over here, it may not be all that easy to find work suitable for a wife, i.e. part time or short hours.

[Nautilus]

How is White Nancy doing? No updates from him yet.

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by Nautilus

How is White Nancy doing? No updates from him yet.

House hunting ?

The weather has been pretty good recently, i.e. no rain. Hopefully, he'll be settled in soon and then give us an update.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by dizbuster

House hunting ?

The weather has been pretty good recently, i.e. no rain. Hopefully, he'll be settled in soon and then give us an update.

so Diz
while we wait on WN
you havent really told us your thoughts on Sing
how do you like it over there??
what do you like and dont like?

[dizbuster]

Originally Posted by marc26

so Diz
while we wait on WN
you havent really told us your thoughts on Sing
how do you like it over there??
what do you like and dont like?

If I was to be brief, it's very much like England, but without the attitude and violence. Trains and buses run on time and people are generally very welcoming.

Alcohol is expensive, even more so than in London, but food is a lot cheaper. Stores stock food that stays fresher for longer. Nowhere is far away, transport is cheap. The weather is always warm - no frozen walks to the station on a winter's morning !! You can have a barbecue any day of the year. I've been promoted twice in 16 months. It's just over an hour's flight to Phuket. (I'm going to LOS for the 4th time this year tomorrow). Most properties have access to a swimming pool.

Dislikes ? People riding their bicycles carelessly (i.e. too quickly) on narrow footpaths, instead of on the roads. Impossible to get a seat on the MRT (trains) as they are always busy regardless of the time of day. Locals not holding open doors when they pass through - there seems to be some kind of "Singaporean thing" here. People will do anything to get through a door without touching it, i.e. holding it open etc. Most of us in the western world will push the door open wide so that when it starts to close, it's still quite a way open for the next person to reach out and keep it pushed back. Here, they dash through the "closing" gap so that they person behind faces an almost closed door. It's not much of an issue but I just cannot see why they won't just hold it open for the next person. I usually have fun by pushing the door open on to the back of their feet and if they say anything, then I just tell them that if they had held the door open and not been so rude, it wouldn't have happened. Mind you, they rarely say anything, I feel like Gulliver over here, as on the whole they are tiny in comparison to me

Overall, the good far far outweighs the small dislikes. I'm glad I made the move and I don't want to go back to England, except for family visits.

[astreal]

Hahhahaha...... I find the door thingy very amusing. I guess thats why more and more places have automatic sliding doors. I didnt noticed that till you mentioned it.

Booze is expensive cause of the heavy goverment taxes, same goes for cigerettes. It's like a deterence machinism which i think it has been good for our society.