Need the Do's and Don'ts for walking ATM

[beatlejuice]

Let's say after my last posting I am more confused than ever. Was wondering if someone would please enlighten me a little more. What are the do's and don'ts in Phuket for a expat trying to start a business.
EXAMPLE is a hand shake good enough or should everything be spell out in contract form?
EXAMPLE Would it be ok for me to cut the deals or should I hire a person to front for me?
Please feel free to expand on these examples. Any help you can offer would be great. Yes I am a newbie but hopefully you can help me not to make the same mistakes as others. Thanks again for your time

[stevem]

1) You are farang
2) Never trust anyone
3) Contracts in writting arent really worth anything when it comes to a legal battle, refer to point 1
4) Someone will always take some sort of an interest in what you are doing, refer to point 1
5) Never expose yourself to authority, refer to point 1
6) You need a work permit to sweep the floor of your business, refer to point 1
7) Basically just remember, that you will always loose, refer to point 1

Might sound harsh, but it is extremely difficult for a farang to walk in and expect to start a business from scratch on their own. You need a Thai to do all the front work for you, and that means trusting someone, refer to point 2.

Do you get it yet!!!

[LivinLOS]

LOL contract...

Please spend some time here before investing..

I am still chuckling at that.. Contracts... LOL

[LivinLOS]

To expand a little.. Everything Steve just said is spot on and comes from someone who has been doing biz here for years..

Thailand is a great place to enjoy.. Fun place to stay.. Lots and lots of positives but..

In business.. Thailand is a xenophobic little backwater where there is no rule of law, no integrity to make honest transactions (especially against farangs), everyone will attempt to steal / overcharge / rip you off and that will be follwed up with a smile both from the ripper and the police should you be fool enough to want to involve them..

All rules and laws are geared against you and even if you are 110% in the right and they are 110% in the wrong you wont get paid anyway.. You have no recompense of taking anyone to court and it actually working in your favour but you will have to pay all the legal fees..

If you fail they will clean you out.. If you succeed with a new novel idea they will clean you out by copying you with tighter margins (remember you will pay more than them for everything) or simply scuppering you by fair or more likely foul means.. The only slim slim hope is that you will do just well enough to keep your head above water and just badly enough not to attract any attention..

Actually better to just read Steves rules.. They pretty much had it..

[beatlejuice]

Lets recap a little to see if I am understanding you.
1. First thing that I must do is to develop a trusting business relationship with a Thai. Showing him that a long term relationship would be a lot more profitable than the short term money.
2.Make only small investments. Without contracts large ones would expose me to risks. That I am not willing to take at this time.
3.Farang's have little to no rights so always beware.
Does this sound about right. Might be a tuffer nut to crack than I first thought. Hope you will give me a little cerdit for my passion, Your advise has not fallen on deaf ears.

[LivinLOS]

Well you have point 3 right...

On to point 1.. (as a generalization) Almost an impossible task.. Living for the moment is a Thai way of life.. Tomorrow never comes.. They often fail to plan and never look to long term gain over short term profit. Stories of women just about to be married to super rich guys and having a life of total luxury getting caught taking a 1000 baht short time are so commonplace as to barely register. If you ever find one of these people your looking for get in touch with me.. I would love to meet him !!

Point 2 could be clarified by making investments so small as to be non existant.. Invest in your home country.. Live here on the profit (very well I may add)..

The adage banded around out here is "Never bring into Thailand more than you are happy to walk away from"..

Have you lived in Thailand or SE asia before ?? Lived in any 3rd world or developing countries (other than a warzone with the associated Gov support) ?? These things are essential to have any realistic hope of not just losing the lot..

[beatlejuice]

Once again I must thank you for the good insight you have given me. After your replies guess it would be more reasonable to keep my investments in other places than Phuket. Best to take advise than to lose my shirt. Lets look on the bright side now my up coming business trip just turn into a holiday. One more thing Yes I have lived in thrid world countries out side the goverment control. Thanks again when I get there can a farang buy you a beer.

[beatlejuice]

I wonder what I should do with all that time that will be on my hands now. Maybe someone could give me a few ideas. Diving, dancing and being a walking ATM have already done these things. I could always try that love thing. lmao

[Benjy]

I would never go into business with a Thai (other than my wife), I have a friend who had a fairly successful business here for 10 years. His partner was a very close family friend, even to the extent that he is the godfather of the Thai Guys son, who also lived with his family back in the West for 5 years while attending University.

Then one day the Thai guy asked him to sign a document in Thai, Which is very common (we sign 100+ documents all in Thai every month) - Turns out it was a document handing all his shares in the company over, within a week the farang had his work permit revoked and had 7 days to leave the country.

Thats with a close family friend who the farang had known for 25 years+.

[FlyFree]

I really want to commend the BM's here on this thread. Much too many times have I seen this question asked by would-be expats on other boards, and gotten the sickening PC pussyfooting answers that lead them to bring their money in, only to leave, or commit suicide, pretty soon thereafter, totally stripped. This goes for so much marraige advice as well.

I've often felt sickened, wondering how can anybody with any knowledge of Thailand lead these poor innocents onto the rocks.

Yes, there are success stories here, in business and relationships, but they are as rare as bird-flu-free hens teeth. Much better be forewarned, it will increase your chances of being one of the few success stories dramatically.

Be positive about investing your money somewhere else, if you want to live here. Your returns will be better anyhow, and a 1000% safer.


You guys have just earned my respect.

No, I'm not a bitter and twisted expat. I have lost no money here, and have a good relationship. And no business here.

[midnightsun1]

i have no intentions of wanting to have a bar or any other large investment business in thailand... i'll keep my money where it is now and live on those investments.

lets say i have a gf and want to have some type of business for her that requires very minimal amount of money start up or buy, may make a profit for her of about 10-15k baht a month. more then anything keeps her busy, she will feel she is earning her money, and i can sleep at night not worrying about losing my ****.

any serious ideas?????

[K2]

Stevem and LivinLOS are bang on .... especially the NEVER trust anyone ... its always smiles and seeming no problems at the begining and when things turn sour (as they often do) then you'll too late realise the LOS is total kwai s***. Family members are notorous for getting jealous or thinking that the gravy train has arrived for them if they see any kind of opportunity to cash in - and thats accross all social strata.

The most important asset you have is your wife ... not g/f ... means nothing as if you split from your wife at least you'd get half (eventually minus legal fees etc tec). Investing with girlfriends/setting up businesses for them is verging of laughable (sorry).

Midnightsun - serious ideas ... if shes well educated (uni degree) then perhaps she could start a biz, but anything less than degree - send her to college in a area she enjoys/skilled at .. then maybe then ...after a few years of being together.

10-15k/month is by far easier to send to her bank a/c from your investment/earnings and get her a job to keep her hands from doing the Devil's Work.

Good Luck!

[gregor200]

Buy a shop for your wife, something she wants to do, maybe a small store like 7/11, a hairdresser or a coffee-shop. Maybe she makes some money of it but don´t expect it a investment, which will return money.

You have to see it as lost money, a hobby, like buying a sailing ship or a fast racing car. With this attitude you can watch her doing business relaxed, just giving her some hints, what she should take care of financially. Maybe she understands a bit the meaning of return-of-investment, but i am not sure.

When you buy her a new house, the bank will be very happy, if she takes a loan and buys a car with the money. She can never calculate, how much she has to pay every month to reach the break-even point.

[geespot]

Have to agree

Unless u r going to be there full time dont expect to make money, at best u can expect break even..............

Try to invest in a business that doesnt involve renewable key money and minimum rent. This should give u the best chance of not having a nooce round ur neck and also gives u the opportunity of a future long term activity for yourself

I think the initial idea of having some form of business in LOS that does not require u to be there full time is to give ur girl a source of income for her and her family without u having to sponsor every month and to give her something to do away from the 'scene'

If u r going to stay there and run business urself and have previous experience of running a business then it wont pose u too many technical problems but be prepared to be patient, dont expect planned timescales to be met and dont be fooled by the Thai smile, because it mean sweet fa and is there to hide a multitude of sins

Also be warned the bar scene business is not the field of dreams that some people think, drinking and partying everynight can seriously damage your health and dont think that u can afford to take time off and leave things to ur thai staff............any length of time and u wont have too many customers

G