Thailand

Captain · #1 06-01-2006, 21:07

2nd of January got a call from VISA fraude department that my credit card was used in China on 30 and 31 December. Question was if I was there as my last payments were in Phuket on 10 December. Answered negative and they asked me to send back my card as I would get a new one. Nothing charged to me for the China expenses.
I checked all my payments in Pattaya (4 days) and Phuket (3 weeks).
The copying of my card must have been in Pattaya in the "Lobster Pot" or "El Toro", or in Phuket in "Zen" (Soi Wattana), "Savoey", the "Port" (Banthai Hotel) but most likely (for 90% certain) in the "Sea Hag" in Soi Wattana. I paid there by VISA but had to wait more than 5 minutes to get my card back, even had to ask for it for 4 times.
No expenses for me but next time I use my cc i am following it to the counter.

jimholio · #2 06-01-2006, 21:23

Never let them walk away with a Visa, if so go with them

marc26 · #3 06-01-2006, 21:26

my 1st trip to LOS, happened to me on my visa check card. 10,000 usd in thailan, estonia

butterflyblonde · #4 07-01-2006, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain

2nd of January got a call from VISA fraude department that my credit card was used in China on 30 and 31 December. Question was if I was there as my last payments were in Phuket on 10 December. Answered negative and they asked me to send back my card as I would get a new one. Nothing charged to me for the China expenses.
I checked all my payments in Pattaya (4 days) and Phuket (3 weeks).
The copying of my card must have been in Pattaya in the "Lobster Pot" or "El Toro", or in Phuket in "Zen" (Soi Wattana), "Savoey", the "Port" (Banthai Hotel) but most likely (for 90% certain) in the "Sea Hag" in Soi Wattana. I paid there by VISA but had to wait more than 5 minutes to get my card back, even had to ask for it for 4 times.
No expenses for me but next time I use my cc i am following it to the counter.

But why use your CC in restaurants like Lobster Pot ?

I only use my CC in the Atm's then pay hard cash for restaurants and hotels, I only make an exception with the hotel if I know the hotel particularly well and trust them.

Captain · #5 07-01-2006, 00:32

I had no problem in lobster pot. In fact, I used it in a lot of restaurants, and on every trip. I never had any problem, and I think the problem was not in lobster pot as my card came back fast.
95% sure it happened in Sea Hag. I have been in that restaurant before, and never problem. But now I smelled shit as I had to wait more than 5 minutes for my card to return, and I had to ask several times for it.
Next month, I am going back to Sea Hag, and speak to the owner.
Why I pay with cc? Because it is a lot cheaper than cash. I pay as much as possible with credit card, and have only cash for small bills (drinks), where they don't accept cc's or where they ask 3% extra for CC payment.
And in ATM, I preferably use Maestro as the rates are better than cc.

butterflyblonde · #6 07-01-2006, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain

Why I pay with cc? Because it is a lot cheaper than cash. I pay as much as possible with credit card, and have only cash for small bills (drinks), where they don't accept cc's or where they ask 3% extra for CC payment.
And in ATM, I preferably use Maestro as the rates are better than cc.

So what you are saying is (if I understand this correctly?), If the bill in a restaurant was 1,200 baht let's say, they will actually amend that price to something cheaper if you pay with a CC ?

Or are you saying that the interest charge on a CC is either lower or nothing at all when used in a restaurant, than drawing cash from a bank with the CC, thus making it cheaper to do it this way ?

This is certainly news to me

Brazoo · #7 07-01-2006, 00:49

used my visa only once in Thailand ... the bank calls me: You've been in London this weekend?

Did not cost mr anything, but ... never use your credit card if you dont have to ... and have a 2nd one for just in case.

Captain · #8 07-01-2006, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by butterflyblonde

So what you are saying is (if I understand this correctly?), If the bill in a restaurant was 1,200 baht let's say, they will actually amend that price to something cheaper if you pay with a CC ?

Or are you saying that the interest charge on a CC is either lower or nothing at all when used in a restaurant, than drawing cash from a bank with the CC, thus making it cheaper to do it this way ?

This is certainly news to me

If you get money out of the ATM with your cc the bank charges you for the transaction. So if you pay in a restaurant 1200 cash, the exchange rate you got for that amount is less favourable than if you pay by cc.
It simply works so that if you pay something with cc, the exchange duty (if I may call it like that) to be paid to the credit card company is paid by the shop/restaurant/hotel or who ever. Some do not like that and charge 3% or 5% more (AMEX) if you pay by cc. Let's say Rock Hard, Christin, some goldshops.
To rephrase, if a restaurant bill is 1200 you will pay 1200 by cc but the restaurant will get 1200 minus 3% from the creditcard company.
Now a bank is certainly not going to pay 3% to AMEX or VISA or Mastercard, so they charge it to you.
Hope my English is OK and you understand now.

Captain · #9 07-01-2006, 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazoo

used my visa only once in Thailand ... the bank calls me: You've been in London this weekend?

Did not cost mr anything, but ... never use your credit card if you dont have to ... and have a 2nd one for just in case.

I use it all the time wherever I am, but this is the first time in more than 20 years using it that this happens to me.
Besides, it is less safe to go on holidays with that amount of cash money on you. And I want to be more flexible than traveller cheques.

butterflyblonde · #10 07-01-2006, 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain

If you get money out of the ATM with your cc the bank charges you for the transaction. So if you pay in a restaurant 1200 cash, the exchange rate you got for that amount is less favourable than if you pay by cc.
It simply works so that if you pay something with cc, the exchange duty (if I may call it like that) to be paid to the credit card company is paid by the shop/restaurant/hotel or who ever. Some do not like that and charge 3% or 5% more (AMEX) if you pay by cc. Let's say Rock Hard, Christin, some goldshops.
To rephrase, if a restaurant bill is 1200 you will pay 1200 by cc but the restaurant will get 1200 minus 3% from the creditcard company.
Now a bank is certainly not going to pay 3% to AMEX or VISA or Mastercard, so they charge it to you.
Hope my English is OK and you understand now.

Thanks for explaining that Captain.

And I had no idea that the restaurants or whatever actually pay the ''exchange duty'' themselves.

All this time iv'e been visiting los and losing out on the 3% ..lol

The only dilemna of course is wether or not they are trustworthy as you had your CC cloned and this is not uncommon in los.

Something I will have to think about, but cheers for the advice.

LivinLOS · #11 07-01-2006, 09:30

With my card they dont..

I get the same rate on a cash withdrawl or a purchase.. but because the merchant has to pay the CC costs mosts (many) merchants in Thailand charge 3% to cover thier fees (actually illegal according to the TOS but seems endemic)..

There is (on my cards) a per transaction cost of some GBP (I think 3.50) per cash withdrawl..

I dont use my cards like this as I have Thai accounts and move money via the banking system that way but for me using my CC in small spending amounts was no gain over withdrawing single lump sums and the anonymity of cash.

Perhaps Other countries cards give poor rates for cash withdrawls but mine allways gave interbank rates and not purchase and sale spreads when using VISA.

Lord_Farquard · #12 07-01-2006, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

With my card they dont..

I get the same rate on a cash withdrawl or a purchase.. but because the merchant has to pay the CC costs mosts (many) merchants in Thailand charge 3% to cover thier fees (actually illegal according to the TOS but seems endemic)..

There is (on my cards) a per transaction cost of some GBP (I think 3.50) per cash withdrawl..

I dont use my cards like this as I have Thai accounts and move money via the banking system that way but for me using my CC in small spending amounts was no gain over withdrawing single lump sums and the anonymity of cash.

Perhaps Other countries cards give poor rates for cash withdrawls but mine allways gave interbank rates and not purchase and sale spreads when using VISA.

That would be a good project for someone with nothing better to do. Explore which banks and cards are the most proconsumer. A number of banks offer cards that have no ATM fees. My bank told me that they would chage me 3% for using my credit card in a foreign country (it never happened). If it did, 3% for the merchant, 3% for my bank-----ouch

Baltic · #13 07-01-2006, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc26

my 1st trip to LOS, happened to me on my visa check card. 10,000 usd in thailan, estonia

Hey Marc26, we met in MTB last year in March, when there was a big meeting of BM-s.
Heywood, TinTin, a lot of other guys were there - I guess You remember that night?
Can You explain me about this case You mention a bit more (maybe in PM) as You know well from where I'm are and where I live. Would like to know what the hell is going on

Regards,
Baltic

Crustasian · #14 07-01-2006, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain

I had no problem in lobster pot. In fact, I used it in a lot of restaurants, and on every trip. I never had any problem, and I think the problem was not in lobster pot as my card came back fast.
95% sure it happened in Sea Hag. I have been in that restaurant before, and never problem. But now I smelled shit as I had to wait more than 5 minutes for my card to return, and I had to ask several times for it.
Next month, I am going back to Sea Hag, and speak to the owner.
Why I pay with cc? Because it is a lot cheaper than cash. I pay as much as possible with credit card, and have only cash for small bills (drinks), where they don't accept cc's or where they ask 3% extra for CC payment.
And in ATM, I preferably use Maestro as the rates are better than cc.

If you are that certain that it was the Sea Hag then report it to the police and also to Visa and they can investigate it.If you are correct the local police will bust them and other tourists will not get ripped off.

LivinLOS · #15 07-01-2006, 16:52

Doesnt mean the mangement themselves are in on it. .anyone in the billing chain could be responsible...

I remember that back in the UK EVERY reciept from the petrol station (when card was used) used to list the full visa number and exp date.. Kids used to hang around and just pick up dropped reciepts for the full card number and use it in phone calling and dial a wank lines.. Did not have the full address for mail ordering good etc..

Amazing lack of security.. Cant remember which chain it was but a big one (Total or Q8 or similar).. Pointed it out to one station manager who just kind of shrugged and didnt care..

steve@thaib · #16 07-01-2006, 17:02

A bit surprising that they can get away with it in these days of chip and pin. I do think it should be reported though, if you are sure where it was done.

I remember the fuel station thing here too, and it's actually what woke me up to the fact that it could happen. I used to fuel the car up every day when I was travelling a lot.

On the 3% thing, if you look at your receipt from some supermarkets it says 'I agree to pay 3% of this total to the merchant', it's just that most merchants over here factor it into their pricing.

Robo(sydney) · #17 07-01-2006, 18:59

I was is Patong from 5/12 - 18/12 last month and using my credit card at one place outside Central Shopping and that was at Banya restaurant near the water...
Had dinner there 4 times....
Today I get a call from my bank that someone has tried to debit the card 7.98 dollars in the UK.....????
I have never been to the UK but obviously the numbers have been ripped off me somehow....
Fortunately we the bank put a stop and cancelled my card(new one arrives next week) but re-sorting all my direct debits is gonna kill me....
I think they tried the small amount ...and then would have hit me hard next...

stevem · #18 07-01-2006, 19:16

We all complain about the bloody banks for something or other, but at least they seem to have gotten their shit together on this issue

LivinLOS · #19 07-01-2006, 20:27

Call me a cynic but might that be because THEY have to swallow thr fraudulent charges on these actions !!!!

Every heard them blocking a Debit card from use ?? I wonder why not ?? Perhaps cause its straight out of your account and bloody hard to get back instead of money they expect you to pay them later !!!

Thats why bankers rhymes with..

gregor200 · #20 08-01-2006, 05:16

My creditcard company charges me 1.75 percent, when I use it outside the EC, even if the foreign company charges me in Euro. So normally I use it only for hotel or rental car bills, where they use my credit card as a deposit.
Or sometimes in Lotus.

Any other bill is paid in cash, and I use the ATM with my EC (maestro) card. They charge me about 200 baht per transaction. Can take up to 26000 baht per transaction, depending on the ATM

stevem · #21 08-01-2006, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Call me a cynic but might that be because THEY have to swallow thr fraudulent charges on these actions !!!!

Every heard them blocking a Debit card from use ?? I wonder why not ?? Perhaps cause its straight out of your account and bloody hard to get back instead of money they expect you to pay them later !!!

Thats why bankers rhymes with..

Thats very true, but from the end users perspective it appears they are doing the right thing, regardless of the motives behind the scenes.

big mitch · #22 26-01-2006, 17:09

I got stung on my last trip bigtime during december. Beware of the atm machines as this was the only place i used it.On return to australia nothing happened til last week when 600 pounds in the UK was charged to my mastercard account. I will get a refund, it is the waiting and the fcuk around that angers me. If you are all thinking beware BG, no iam not that stupid, the card sleeps in the safe til i need to use it, then goes straight back to bed

shark1963 · #23 26-01-2006, 19:43

the problem is that the bankers know very well how unsecure the cc´s and the whole system are. b ut because of the high interrest rates they make by using the credit cards they pay they damage instead of increasing the safty of this cards. It would costs them much more money all over the world to change the ATM and the whole structure. the trouble , you have does not belong to them.

I don´t use the card for everything, not only because of the security problem. i don´t like my bankers to know ,where i go and for what i sprend my money at all. maybe you think about of your privacy.