Thailand

UKguy · #1 29-04-2006, 05:00

hi
I was thinking about investing in a condo in Phuket. The one I came across is Bel Air pan wa which is a new development somewhere on the island, I think 10 mins drive to Phuket town centre. The cheapest is going for £60K.
Any guesses as to how the capital appreciation will go? Will it be safe to part with my cash? I mean, I wont get ripped off will I? it is supposed to be an australian compant that is the developer.

Also, would a hostel business be ok in Phuket or are there too many of them? I was thinking about that too.

Martin

M & M · #2 29-04-2006, 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKguy

hi
I was thinking about investing in a condo in Phuket. The one I came across is Bel Air pan wa which is a new development somewhere on the island, I think 10 mins drive to Phuket town centre. The cheapest is going for £60K.
Any guesses as to how the capital appreciation will go? Will it be safe to part with my cash? I mean, I wont get ripped off will I? it is supposed to be an australian compant that is the developer.

Also, would a hostel business be ok in Phuket or are there too many of them? I was thinking about that too.

Martin

Martin, Martin, Martin...What planet are you from?

Quote: "I mean, I won't get ripped off will I?"

When in LOS you are in a constant state of "warding off folks trying to rip you off"

It's sport for the Thais!! and they're very good at it!!

It's up to you as to how good you are at playing their game with their ball!!

Marcia & Mike

UKguy · #3 29-04-2006, 07:05

oh right.

so you mean dont do it then? This aussie guy who is the developer has rung me and also sent paperwork to set up a thai company so that I can buy the condo if I want to. It sounds all above board to me. Why do you think I couls get ripped off buying it then?

stevem · #4 29-04-2006, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKguy

oh right.

so you mean dont do it then? This aussie guy who is the developer has rung me and also sent paperwork to set up a thai company so that I can buy the condo if I want to. It sounds all above board to me. Why do you think I couls get ripped off buying it then?

I wont comment either way on this, but you must be aware that once you form the company, you will then be paying company taxes, whether you are trading or not. Has it been explained to you that you need 'x' number of Thais on the board, have you given any thought to who.

You need to speak with a lawyer familiar with Thai laws, and not the Aussie guy from the company.

sledge038 · #5 29-04-2006, 09:06

have you heard of "multiplex"?? 5555

Dodger · #6 29-04-2006, 09:24

UKguy the only person offering you actual advice here is Stevem. Bel Air Panwa is being constructed at Panwa, this is a pensinsular located at the south of the island almost directly below Phuket Town. I believe Panwa will become a desired area in the future but at present there is very little in the area, but the islands first 6 star hotel is currently being built there, FIFA are building a football training facility there, and there is a deep water port accepting cruise liners the only one capable on the island at present. Views are quite spectacular from this side of the island and you can see the group of islands which Phi Phi is part of.

The units are very competitively priced at 6 to 10 million, with a 3 year 8% gtd rental return. They are being built by Watsons one of australia largest property companies, all to australian spec, so no you will not be ripped off by a Thai because there is no Thai involvment.

My advice to you, is get advice from a good solicitor, you can buy these freehold as it is a condominium but also you could set up a thai limited company and purchase them freehold, you will have taxes and costs involved but these should be minimal in the first two years, however there is certain queries I have with non trading limited companies, so perhaps best if you were considering renting, but other advantages as you can avoid or minimalise cgt upon future sale.

Remember the price of the unit should not just be your reason for buying, the location of Panwa is well away from Patong etc if that is what you come to Phuket for, Panwa will in my opinion become a retirement/couples area.

crazy_gman · #7 29-04-2006, 12:33

UKguy, I have purchased a unit at Bel Air Panwa. I spent a lot of time looking at developments on the island and from what I can see Bel Air is top notch. Yes this side of the island is quite right now but with the 3 year 8% it is great and by then who knows it could become a great little getaway. If not not a bad place to live!! Maybe in the future we will have a few beer bars on the cape..

If you have any other questions PM me,,

G

LivinLOS · #8 29-04-2006, 14:40

Other threads by you say you have not yet been here.. Is that correct ?? If so then my advise is come live here a year or two and commit once you know you like the place as then you will have a much better understanding of the risks and issues..

As others have said Bel Air Panwa is a high end development and should all be above board.. However many other 'high end' developments have gone tits up so its not impossible.. Out here the property rights and rules all stack against you and courts and laws are not as clear or applicable as they are back in western countries..

Sirgezza · #9 29-04-2006, 16:21

Condominiums freehold?????

Is that up to a maximum of 49% of those built can be owned by farangs? The other 51% must be owned by Thais or thai companies set up by farangs?

UKguy · #10 29-04-2006, 20:26

hi

Thanks for all the advice. I thought it sounded an honest company and apparently it is about 80% complete so it looks like it will be completed ok. But I do not want a retirement place. I would like the place to be full of younger people (I am 39 going on 25) and chicks LOL

The Aussie guy told me that it was just about a 10 minute drive into Phuket town centre so it can't be that far away from all the current nightlife can it? I am doing my house up here to rent out and should be ready to rent in a few more weeks. So, the only other thing is a business like a hostel instead...cant afford both LOL. Whatever happens though, I will need an income if I stayed there, although there is the 8% yield available up to 3 years. Anyway, if anyone can find out what you are taxed on if you set up a company to buy the condominium (yes you can buy it freehold), I think you can buy freehold up to 49% as a foreigner and thereafter you have to have a thai company. Can someone check this out to see if thats the reason why they say to set up a thai company. Or should I get a place before 49% has been sold if you can own it in your own name? This obviously needs checking.

I was also looking at some place called the marina on the middle east coast I think it is. But they are more expensive. But hey, help I need to get out of the UK coz everyone here sucks and earns more money than me (mediocre teacher)

LivinLOS · #11 29-04-2006, 21:31

Panwa is the other side of the island from the main naughty nightlife in Patong..

If its a condo you should be able to own it 100% in your name.. If its not a condo and properly registered as such then you will need to set up a Thai company that is majority Thai owned and have that own the property.. Problems arise as the business must be legally an active company so what is it doing ?? Setting up a company purely to get around the fact that farangs cant own property in Thailand is illegal. Currently this law is not enforced and dormant companies own lots of property but it only takes a tiny change of sentiment to create a new on the ground situation..

It sounds like you really are not yet aware of how the Thai legal systems are and how they work.. I suggest spending time here first then you will make a safer investment (or not depending on your mood)..

crazy_gman · #12 29-04-2006, 22:43

I do believe the Bel Air Panwa is out of Freehold as they are over the 49% mark. I purchased mine with a Thai company, which is not hard to setup. The costs and Tax's are minimal. If you are going to take the 8% for 3 years, then your Thai company has income coming in.

Phuket town is only 10 mins away but Patong is more like 30-40 minutes away by scooter. I did this trip a number of times 2 weeks ago as I was staying in Patong and went to Bel Air Panwa almost every day. It is not a bad ride but I wouldn't want to ride home after a night in the patong bars.

I think it will end up being a fairly younger crowd there, I am only 42 but going on 25 as well. I want someplace high end a litlle away from the action but within easy reach of all the action. Who knows by the time I move there I might end up buying another place in Karon or someplace then keep the Bel Air as a rental unit or sell it once the cape becomes popular.

G

Dodger · #13 30-04-2006, 10:28

Well crazy gman you seem to have your head screwed on okay and have thought through your reason prior to buying. I'm a little pi$$ed off because when I bothered to reply I didn't realise at that time UKguy had never been to Thailand, let alone phuket.

UKguy, do not buy any property anywhere without at least a little knowledge, you cannot live on the 8% return, Panwa is 10 minutes away from Phuket Town but very few farang go to phuket town they nearly all go to Patong which is a good 30 minutes away. You would not live in Panwa if your real intentions are to monger in Patong.

At least visit the island first, to see if you want a house here, whilst here talk to many professional people and tour the island and its current developments without making any commitment.

Denver · #14 01-05-2006, 01:18

Beginning to wish I had invested in a condom (Minimum) with that bird you set me up with Dodger!

Oh my Buddha!

UKguy · #15 01-05-2006, 02:49

If I bought in Panwa I would only use the 8% to cover the mortgage, not to live on. I would get a job to live on. I cant see what the problem is whether or not I have been to Thailand. I have not been YET. I may go, but I would not buy anything there unless I had seen the place myself.
have you got any birds to set me up with too LOL

dawsey · #16 01-05-2006, 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKguy

If I bought in Panwa I would only use the 8% to cover the mortgage, not to live on. I would get a job to live on. I cant see what the problem is whether or not I have been to Thailand.

You had better read this then

http://www.phuket-info.com/forums/ex...jobs-list.html

You really haven't thought this out yet have you? Do some more research my friend.

Spend a while looking through this forum
www.thaivisa.com

LivinLOS · #17 01-05-2006, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKguy

If I bought in Panwa I would only use the 8% to cover the mortgage, not to live on. I would get a job to live on. I cant see what the problem is whether or not I have been to Thailand. I have not been YET. I may go, but I would not buy anything there unless I had seen the place myself.
have you got any birds to set me up with too LOL

Mortgage.. In Thailand.. To a farang... Pray tell how ??

I think the point is more than looking at it.. Diving into a country you have no experience of (reading online doesnt count) is more than a little strange.. Come look, live and spend time.. Then see how you feel.

Try to get over the honeymoon stage first also.. 6 months to a year min IMHO.

urtheman · #18 01-05-2006, 18:00

What the law says is that setting up a company for the sole purpose to purchase land is forbidden.

If you are showing 8% return as income for your business on your condo and not any other return from other sources the revenue department might not look at that favorably.

However many people have done the same.

Cheers!

The costs and Tax's are minimal. If you are going to take the 8% for 3 years, then your Thai company has income coming in.

Phuket town is only 10 mins away but Patong is more like 30-40 minutes away by scooter. I did this trip a number of times 2 weeks ago as I was staying in Patong and went to Bel Air Panwa almost every day. It is not a bad ride but I wouldn't want to ride home after a night in the patong bars.

alibaba · #19 04-05-2006, 20:45

You also need to check out the management costs.
I looked at a couple of condo developments for a friend while there last month and couldn't believe some of the costs i was quoted.
Also i was given so much b/sh-t it was unbelieveable.
One "agent" even assured me with hand on heart that foreigners could definitely own 100% freehold of a condo development.

LivinLOS · #20 04-05-2006, 21:19

Well we can own 100% of a condo unit if its been done correctly.. Many different systems exist one is that only 49% of the untis can be foriegn owned but as foriegners can own property (as seperate from the land the property sits on) outright I could see how someone or a management company could own the land under the condo building but farangs could own the building..

Its quite legal for you to own a house 100% outright but not theland the house sits on ?!?! Makes sense.. Welcome to Thailand.

DaveRetiring · #21 04-05-2006, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKguy

If I bought in Panwa I would only use the 8% to cover the mortgage

Er, guys, pardon an old fart from butting in here, BUT, isn't that 8% income based on renting out the apartment when you are not using it? You will be getting money ONLY when your apartment is being rented by guests.

Tell me to shut up, but I really can't see how you can count on the 8% as income unless you are guaranteed that it is fully rented out ALL the time. Miss out on one week rental and that drops to 7.8%, miss a month and it is now barely 7% etc.

Dave the cautious.

crazy_gman · #22 04-05-2006, 22:16

Dave in the case of Bel Air Panwa, they are giving you 8% guaranteed for 3 years no matter if your unit is never rented out. You can use the condo for 60 days a year.

G

LivinLOS · #23 04-05-2006, 22:16

A Lot of the most expensive places have a guaranteed rental program where you agree to rent it through thier holiday rental scheme and they then guarantee a % return on your investment for a couple of years..

When I looked at most of these things it looks to me like they have usually higher than usual prices so they can afford to give 8% for 3 years for a total of 24% but amortized over time and inflation etc back.. They then rent it but they still made the 76% initial sale no matter what.. When small apartments are priced in the 4 / 5 million range and up (a long way up) there may well be enough room to worry about making extra profit out of the rental later.. even a 76% sale is still a immediate sale..

Plus they still will levy the management fees on you over time (quite a profitable little busness in supplying gardeners and maids, and watch your unit per electric and unit per water).. I remember when I studies the Villa Santi deal for someone thinking that the management fees would be coming in at over 25k per month even after you have bought your home..

ElectrO · #24 05-05-2006, 05:17

Do these flats have phone lines?

Theres a huge shortage in Thailand, and especially Phuket for Telephone lines. If you don't want the internet or a phone, then its ideal

Just something many people over look as they think every place has one.

I agree with what some of you have said about Panwa. Its the old persons retirement place. It maybe 10 minutes by airplane to Phuket Town, but thats still over 30minutes away from the night life. Panwa is quite a long way, and from Patong... well its a damn long drive!

E