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#106
15-05-2008, 06:59
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You bring up some interesting points; I'd like to insert some comments if I may(in blue)...
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Ok...biofuel...I don't know much about biofuel but here is my 2 cents worth: The reason rice and sugar etc. has doubled recently had something to do with people buying up massive quantities of rice and corn etc. to manufacture biofuels. Yes? This has left short supplies of food for people who need to eat. Yes? So the guy driving his Hummer in LA is getting a good deal on biodiesel while people in Burma have no rice? Yes? Biofuel part 2: The other thing to consider here is that to sustain a human being on this planet requires a certain area of arable land to provide food per person. I cannot remember the number right now but as the worlds population grows, more and more land area is required to produce food to feed these people. The world's population has grown from 300 million to 6.5 billion in 2000 years and the bulk of the growth occurred during the industrial revolution which was spurred by oil...so oil has given us the cheap energy whereby we can support the growing population...when we have no more oil, we simply cannot continue to support the continuing population growth. If you are to try and use arable land to produce biofuel, there isn't enough to feed the people...so you see biofuel is not a long term solution either for 2 catastophic reasons. In conclusion, we are headed for a sh*tstorm of mammoth proportions. When oil gets too pricy, we can't simply switch to another fuel source because nothing is being done now on the scale that is required to make the switch. I certainly wouldn't want to be living in one of America's suburbs when the oil runs out. Please tell me I am wrong. If you have any happy information I would love to hear it. |
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#107
15-05-2008, 08:08
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We can go back to riding horses and bicycles.  |
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#108
15-05-2008, 08:36
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I thinks theres valid points on both sides.. To respond to some of CMD's comments..
Re food riots.. I dont see these happening in the west.. I see starvation level events being a 3rd world, poor country thing while first worlders will eat but have a dramatically reduced standard of living as energy becomes more expensive.. The food miles in some items like fruits and processed foods will put them high on the cost of living.. Its only the last 30 40 years we have had such an abundance of cheap fresh globally delivered items and thats in part thanks to cheap energy. Unsure about wind not being a feasible option.. I read a really good time article about the wind operations in Holland and IIRC denmark.. 1 wind turbine was IIRC 1/20th a power station.. In some countries wind could be viable.. Also the idea of personal homes becoming part subsidized becomes more viable as prices rise. I saw a alternative energy guy on TV the other day.. He had made a fully energy efficient home.. It had solar power collection and used to solar to split water into hydrogen.. The hydrogen was then stored in huge tanks almost like a battery system and the houses energy was then drawn off the stored hydrogen. He had even made a fuel cell hydrogen car that ran off this system. The house and car were 100% energy independent and produced no hydrocarbon emissions at all... However the cost of this system was over 500k USD !!! However it should be pointed out he designed and built the system, if this was made off the shelf in volume it would of course cost a tiny % of that. So yes there were huge design costs, yes solar cells are currently not what they could be, but there are answers out there. Taking homes off the grid or having them use the grid only as backup systems (and in fact IIRC this home contributed to the grid its surplus) is possible. Its the fact that we have had cheap energy for so long that has made us lazy about how we use energy. I do however agree with you that many of the touted renewables are mirages.. Nuclear energy is always subsidized by governments for other reasons and never are the full decommissioning and waste disposal costs looked at.
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Men have only 2 emotional states, hungry and horny.. So ladies, if you see me without an erection, make me a sandwich. |
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#109
15-05-2008, 23:08
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The waste disposals are looked at. At least in the US. Any consumer that benefits from nuclear power is charged a surcharge on the wattage each month for decommissioning on their monthly bill. In the US, we can't figure out where to put the spent fuel rods, but there are billions of $'s in a fund until the US does figure it out. Nevada and Utah want the opportunity/funds to permanently store these rods.... but at the same time all the spent fuel rods sit in a pool (literally a POOL), at these nuclear power plants. |
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#110
16-05-2008, 07:25
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Really ?? In the UK decommissioning and waste disposal was always outside of the claimed profits.. Of course helps to obfuscate th weapons grade stuff too..
Never heard of billions in a fund sitting idle for this.. Surprised its still there given budget issues.
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Men have only 2 emotional states, hungry and horny.. So ladies, if you see me without an erection, make me a sandwich. |
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#111
16-05-2008, 08:35
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I found a source on the net confirming what TanMan said: Nuclear Decommissioning: WNA A direct quote from the article(Dated December 2007): In USA, utilities are collecting 0.1 to 0.2 cents/kWh to fund decommissioning. They must then report regularly to the NRC on the status of their decommissioning funds. As of 2001, $23.7 billion of the total estimated cost of decommissioning all US nuclear power plants had been collected, leaving a liability of about $11.6 billion to be covered over the operating lives of 104 reactors (on basis of average $320 million per unit). |
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#112
16-05-2008, 09:40
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OK but those costs look very low for waste disposal.. Decommissioning is the easy part, its which carpet you sweep the crud under thats really an impossible question.
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Men have only 2 emotional states, hungry and horny.. So ladies, if you see me without an erection, make me a sandwich. |
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#113
16-05-2008, 09:58
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I believe Nevada and Utah have both bid on the crud storage. |
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#114
17-05-2008, 03:04
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Saudi Arabia's leaders made clear Friday they see no reason to increase oil production until customers demand it, apparently rebuffing President Bush amid soaring U.S. gasoline prices.
It was Bush's second personal appeal this year to King Abdullah, head of the monarchy that rules this desert kingdom that is a longtime prime U.S. ally and home to the world's largest oil reserves. But Saudi officials stuck to their position that they will only pump more oil into the system when asked to by buyers, something they say is not happening now, the president's national security adviser told reporters. "Saudi Arabia does not have customers that are making requests for oil that they are not able to satisfy," Stephen Hadley said on a day when oil prices rose above $127 a barrel, a record high. "What the Saudis wanted to tell us was we're doing everything we can do ... to meet this problem, but it's a complicated problem." The Saudi oil minister, Ali al-Naimi, announced that the kingdom decided on May 10 to raise production by 300,000 barrels at the request of customers, including the United States. He said that increase was sufficient. "Supply and demand are in balance today," he told a news conference. "How much does Saudi Arabia need to do to satisfy people who are questioning our oil practices and policies?" Bernard Picchi, an energy analyst at Wall Street Access, an independent research firm, said the 300,000-barrel Saudi production increase was "a token amount" that is not expected to have much impact on prices. It would be different, he said, if Saudi Arabia boosted production by 1 million or 1.5 million barrels a day. The announced increase will have Saudi Arabia pumping 9.45 million barrels a day by June, Saudi officials said. That's about 2 million barrels below its capacity. Oil prices advanced Friday as traders, unimpressed by efforts to boost supply, kept buying on the expectation that prices would keep setting new records. Saudi Arabia often adjusts its output to meet demand, and the increase coincides with the start of the peak driving season in the U.S. "It's a way to raise production without raising production," said Phil Flynn, analyst at Alaron Trading Corp. "I think it was a way to save face." Hadley never mentioned the Saudi's new production in his recap with reporters. He said the Saudis briefed Bush again on their plan to increase their production capacity over time. They also argued that even an increase would be unlikely to bring down the soaring prices, driven more by uncertainty in the market, lack of refining capacity for the type of oil readily available and other complicated dynamics, he said. Economists say prices are being driven up by increased demand, not slowed production. Energy-guzzlers China and India are stretching supplies. As a result, Hadley suggested the White House was satisfied with — or at least accepted — the Saudi response. He added, however, the Bush administration will see if the explanation "conforms to what our experts say." Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal said the discussion with Bush about oil was friendly. "He didn't punch any tables or shout at anybody," the minister said. "I think he was satisfied." High energy costs are a major drain on the U.S. economy, which is experiencing a slowdown that some think is already a recession. At the pump, gas prices rose to a national average of $3.78 per gallon on Friday, according to a survey of stations by AAA and the Oil Price Information Service. When Bush and Abdullah met in the kingdom in mid-January, the president also sought more Saudi output in a plea that also ultimately was for naught. Iran was the other dominant topic of Bush's overnight visit with the king. The two shared a concern over the recent violence in Lebanon, where Hezbollah overran Beirut neighborhoods last week in protest of measures aimed at the group by the country's government. The display of military power by the Shiite militant group, which the U.S. considers a terrorist organization, resulted in the worst internal fighting since the end of Lebanon's 1975-90 civil war. With Shiite-dominated Iran backing Hezbollah, Sunni-dominated Saudi Arabia — eager to stop any advance of regional power by Tehran — joins the West in supporting Lebanon's government. Hadley said Bush and Abdullah shared a concern that the recent events would "embolden Iran." The U.S. and Saudi Arabia, he said, "are of one mind in condemning what Hezbollah did." On Thursday, Hezbollah and the government reached a deal to end the violence after Lebanon's Cabinet reversed measures aimed at reining in the militants. Bush's Saudi stop was intended, in part, to celebrate 75 years of formal U.S.-Saudi relations and strengthen ties that, once strong, have frayed over the perception Washington favors Israel too much in the dispute with the Palestinians, the Iraq war and the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. Fifteen of the 19 airline hijackers were Saudis, and Americans blamed Saudis for allowing the religious extremism that gave rise to them, an accusation that stings here. Bush was spending the day with Abdullah at his lavish farm complex outside Riyadh, talking mostly out of public view over multiple tea services and meals. Abdullah greeted Bush warmly at the airport, and rode with him in his limousine out into the desert. The White House hoped that new agreements formalized during Bush's visit would give the relationship a boost. Among them was an agreement for the U.S. to assist the kingdom in developing civilian nuclear power. Another agreement involves U.S. promises to help protect any Saudi nuclear infrastructure with training, the exchange of experts "and other support services as needed." Hadley said it would not involve U.S. troops. But the rising price of oil commanded attention. When Bush first ran for president in 2000, he criticized the Clinton administration for high fuel prices and said the president must "jawbone" oil producing nations and persuade them to drop rates. At that time, oil was nearing $28 a barrel — less than a quarter what it is now. Bush's visit comes two days after Congress voted to temporarily halt daily shipments of 70,000 barrels of oil to the nation's emergency reserve. After Bush's talks on Friday, his administration announced in Washington that it has canceled oil shipments into the reserve beginning in July, when the current purchase contract expires. Bush has refused to stop pouring oil into the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, saying the stockpile was meant for emergencies and that halting the shipments would have little or no impact on gasoline or crude oil prices.
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i'm lost my mobile, lady boy take my mobile. i can't connect u |
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#115
17-05-2008, 03:47
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Wow, that was very well written. Are you a journalist? |
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#116
21-05-2008, 03:20
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Alternative Fuels
Oil at $129
Thieves swipe used cooking oil to brew biodiesel By GARANCE BURKE, Associated Press Writer Tuesday, May 20, 2008 (05-20) 10:45 PDT San Francisco (AP) -- A few years ago, drums of used french fry grease were only of interest to a small network of underground biofuel brewers, who would use the slimy oil to power their souped-up antique Mercedes. Now, restaurants from Berkeley, Calif. to Sedgwick, Kan. are reporting thefts of old cooking oil worth thousands of dollars by rustlers who are refining it into barrels of biofuel in backyard stills. "It's like a war zone going on right now over grease," said David Levenson, who owns a grease hauling business in San Francisco's Mission District. "We're seeing more and more people stealing grease because it lets them stay away from the pump, but it's hurting our bottom line." Levenson, who converted the engine in his '83 Mercedes to run on straight canola oil, has built up contracts to collect the liquid leftovers from 400 restaurants in the last two years. Last week when his pump truck arrived at Thee Parkside, a dive bar known for its chili-cheese fries, his driver found someone had already helped himself to their barrel of yellow oil. Grease is transformed into fuel through a chemical process called transesterification, which removes glycerine and adds methanol to the oil, leaving a thinner product that can power a diesel engine. Biodiesel can also be blended with petroleum diesel, and blends of the alternative fuel are now sold at 1,400 gas stations across the country. But as the price of diesel shoots up, so, too, does the value of grease. In the last three years, the price of soybean oil — the main feedstock for biodiesel made in the United States — has tripled. Last week, a gallon of crude soybean oil fetched 66 cents on the open market, according to the National Biodiesel Board. Those kinds of numbers have encouraged biofuel enthusiasts to plunder restaurants' greasy waste, and have even spurred the City of San Francisco to get into the grease-trap cleaning business. "Restaurants and staff are no longer looking at this material as trash, they're looking at is as something that's about to go into city vehicles," said Karri Ving, who runs the city's new waste cooking oil collection program. "Unless you lock down every trash can, thefts are going to happen." Drivers for Blue Sky Bio-Fuels, a grease hauler that also manufactures biodiesel for San Francisco's municipal program, often find the 300-gallon dumpster they store outside the Oakland Coliseum nearly dry, despite the dozens of concessions stands that regularly dump their oil there. Losses at that one site alone have cost the company $3,700 in foregone oil revenues in the last year, said Wesley Caddell, the Oakland firm's business developer. In Kansas, Healy Biodiesel reports thousands of dollars in losses from used cooking oil heists from restaurants near Sedgwick, about 20 miles north of Wichita. Standard Biodiesel in Seattle recently started working with police to try to catch the fly-by-night home-brewers who are pilfering up to 30,000 gallons of the oil they collect from restaurants every month. Company officials say oil rustlers typically siphon their supplies into drums of their own, which they take to backyard gins to be brewed for personal use. As more customers seek alternatives to petroleum-based fuels, biodiesel production has grown from the grassroots to become a multimillion dollar industry. A combination of government subsidies, tax incentives and high oil prices have increased demand for ethanol and biodiesel, which can also be made from animal fat. The National Biodiesel Board reports that U.S. production of biodiesel reached 500 million gallons last year, up from just 75 million gallons in 2005. To manufacture the renewable fuel legally, biodiesel producers must register with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. Biodiesel consumers must also pay the government taxes to help with road upkeep. So far, members of the National Biodiesel Board haven't reported feedstock thefts, but that doesn't mean they aren't happening on a small scale, said Amber Thurlo Pearson, a spokeswoman for the industry's national trade association. "We are of course opposed to the alleged selfish, personal-use theft of feedstock that could otherwise go to make product to benefit the U.S.," Pearson said. San Francisco started its program, SFGreaseCycle, to cut down on the millions it spends each year to dislodge fats, oils and grease clogging the sewers, Ving said. The San Francisco Public Utilities Commission eventually hopes to power its fleet of buses, fire trucks and emergency vehicles with biodiesel made from local restaurants' old oil, she said. Currently, drivers collect about 15,000 gallons of fat and oil each month from 350 restaurants, including Enrico's, a mainstay in the Italian-themed North Beach neighborhood. When the program started six months ago, the city picked up the old oil for free, and sold it to select licensed biofuel makers for 30 cents a gallon. Now that restaurants are supplying them with cleaner waste oil, they can get up to $1.25 a gallon, Ving said. Those numbers — and the city's sudden move into the market — have convinced Levenson he needs to invest in padlocks to safeguard his precious grease and the barrels that hold it. Several of those have disappeared, too. "When you're hauling grease for free, you want to make sure there's something there to pick up. Otherwise, with these prices, it's not worth your while," he said. "That said, if I wasn't doing this company, I would probably be doing the same thing as everybody else, just going to restaurants and filling up directly."
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i'm lost my mobile, lady boy take my mobile. i can't connect u Last edited by Dupree00 : 21-05-2008 at 03:45. |
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#117
22-05-2008, 09:20
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Has now hit $135
...and predicted to rise another 10%+ during the rest of the year to break through $150 :-( Let's hope the bar owners don't use it as an excuse to raise prices.
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 Thai girl saying:"This my brother - not my boyfriend"...
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#118
22-05-2008, 10:11
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That seems a bit low...I predict an end of year higher than $150. |
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#119
22-05-2008, 12:24
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My downstairs neighbour works in the oil industry and I was having a chat with him yesterday. His insider opinion was we will see $150 this year and his reasons were that although opec says it can keep prices down, he said the oil industry is taking this opportunity of higher prices to renew and replace all their current equiptment. His company are scrapping all boats over 20 years old and replacing with new ones, boats at 10 years old are being closely looked at and replaced where they feel they can do.
He said, over the last few years they have kept things tight but are now making the most of the higher prices and increased revenue to spend spend spend and he felt this alone would keep prices going upwards. Just a simple view of some other forces affecting the oil prices!!
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If I havn't done it already, then i'm gunna do it today. |
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#121
22-05-2008, 12:41
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Let's hope the bar customers don't use it as an excuse to drink less 555555 |
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#122
22-05-2008, 14:41
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Oil's rallied $25 this month alone! Move to $150 now we are in the run away phase of this rally is 'doable' by the end of next week.
US summer driving season is upon us - there was a 5000 barrel shortfall in expected API crude inventories last night and thats even with the halting of shipments to the US strategic oil reserve. Given an outside shock we are very much in uncharted territory. Fed minutes were released last night and thats the last rate cut in this cycle - so we better hurry up and have a recession or bar owners raising beer prices (which they probably should) will be the least of your concerns!
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Its My Life ..........! |
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#123
22-05-2008, 16:17
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They should replace as those tankers are single hull and aren't welcome anymore in European waters after the Erika and Prestige disasters. Couldn't the demand for oil from "new rich" countries have something to do with it? I mean in the first place China, then India. Steel doubled in price in a year as the demand from China rose. Same with minerals in Africa where China is pushing to require them. Suppose ther are a lot more cars in China now. Had a congress in Saint Petersburg last week and was told 1.5 million cars for 4.6 million inhabitants... Thas was not the case 10 years ago. Last edited by Captain : 22-05-2008 at 16:23. |
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#124
22-05-2008, 16:29
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I work in the survey end of things...perhaps the ships Dodger mentioned are seismic survey ships, not tankers. I know there are a lot of seismic ships being built lately.
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#126
22-05-2008, 21:23
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