How to live in LOS

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by snorter

Wait! 42 Yrs........if you retire at 50 you would be 92 and spending a lot less on ST's and partying........or dead

Yeah but how about medical insurances, hospital care, maybe hospice homes or a live in nurse..

Out here in asia expats better realize theres no safety net, and being old aint the time to be defenceless !!

[MrDK]

Originally Posted by snorter

The column may be properly titled but the figure you start out with is wrong i.e. 350,000 (which would be 7 x spending, not annual income)

We are going in circles here. I already clarified that my figures were based on (future) spending; and my comment stand that 20 times is my goal/benchmark. Current annual income is more arbitrary as the ratio between spending and pre-retirement income is not the same for all, the the Current-Income times Seven is a guess at best.

Originally Posted by snorter

If your are spending 50,000 per year on your lifestyle I would suggest your earning would be closer to 150,000 per yr (take into account: income tax, mortgage-your house should be paid for by the time you retire, cost of raising children-they've grown up by the time you retire, and savings)

7 x 150,000 is just over 1 million and at a spending rate of 50,000 per year that is, as you say, going to leave you broke in 42 yrs (even at your very low ROI of 4%)

As I said, current income vs future spending may not follow a fixed ratio for all.
You assume that someone with a future spending of 50,000 currently has an income of 150,000 or a ratio of times Three.
While the stated values are not right, that ratio happens to applicable for me, but not for all.
Our calculations are not far apart, only the assumption of the ratio between current income and future spending.
In your case it is 150k x 7 = 1,050k
In my case it is 50k x 20 = 1,000k

Originally Posted by snorter

Wait! 42 Yrs........if you retire at 50 you would be 92 and spending a lot less on ST's and partying........or dead

You are right again and so was I when I earlier mentioned variable spending over the course of retirement.
The earlier you retire the more you need to figure on a non-depleting nest egg.
As you plan for you retirement you also plan for your death and how old you will get is anyone's guess.
Best case scenario you will die with just a few bucks in your pocket, but who in the hell can time that.
Personally I calculate my retirement as if I will get very old and I would rather leave money for the family that drain their resources... or worse find myself broke.

Originally Posted by snorter

Doesn't matter what your income is, if you are saving for retirement, pay income tax, have a mortgage and raise children, your spending on your lifestyle is always less, much less

Presumably.
I agree that a lot of expenses may go down, but some go up too, such as health care.

[MrDK]

Originally Posted by snorter

Fellow board members..........don't take any advise off this guy, he lost 20% of his investment last year!! 555555555555

You are absolutely 100% right here.

I have never offered investment advise, only a model that can be used with you own investment strategy.

Plug in you own numbers in the model. Be as aggressive or as conservative as you like ... just pay attention to the bottom line.

[Sir Burr]

My retirement plan requires me to die at 72 years 8 months.

[MrDK]

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

My retirement plan requires me to die at 72 years 8 months.

That makes you planing easy ... hope you meet your objective.

[Sir Burr]

Nah...just kiddin'.
I will retire with enough money to live off the interest without ever touching the principle. Roll on 2012.

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

I have met a number of expats who have their businesses operating back in farang land and live here. Obviously this takes some setting up and and you need to work at it. Have come across all kinds of industries not simply 'web based' stuff. I guess it falls into the 'active investment' arena.

On a smaller scale - some of my friends have set themselves up with foreign jobs / or as contractors to companies back home and simply complete work here.....a lot of jobs can be set up this way (of course not all) but i know people in writing, design, business coaching, QS, engineering, research etc etc....you need to come up with a way to make it work for your employer or go get yourself a contract for some work in your field that can be a viable proposition. Most are doing quite well as they are earning farang money while living here....doing better than they would with the costs of living in their home countries.

They have got work permits through different means depending on the specifics of what they are doing. good luck with it.

Know a few 'employees' mostly in the hotel, marine, education and property industries...but not many.

There are quite a lot of younger expat people (such as yourself) on the island and in other parts of Thailand and other countries in the region. They have not retired, nor are they planning to soon (although some well could if they chose).....they are getting on with their career as they would no matter where they were living. It takes some creative effort to set it up and some planning and discipline to have it work. It is a LOT easier and faster than reaching your career end financial retirement goals.

You need to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of it and give it a go. It will depend a bit on what your skills and industry are too. A move to Thailand need not be a step backwards career wise or financially for you. Again all the best of luck with your adventure.

Thought a bit more about the above post, and there seems to be some common denominators amongst the people who are making it work well for themselves. It might help in your decision as to if such a strategy would work for you.

Pretty much everyone really likes what they do for their work or business. It is important to them and they enjoy the time they spend on it. Conversation never turns to how they hate work.

They can all work by themselves and are 'self motivated' so to speak. There will be no-one here getting you to do your work so if you let it slip your arrangement wont last long. As you will be mostly working alone during your 'work hours' you need not to be someone who needs the social aspect while working to get the job done.

They are not here for a 7 night a week party. Not to say they don't party and do so regularly :-) ....but they are not in 'holiday mode' if you know what i mean. They are creating their lifestyle to work for them and need to be a bit responsible around it just as they would back home. But Thailand is an easy place to enjoy so you are not at a loss of things to do in your non-work time.

On the upside they often have more 'time' than they did back home while even getting more work done (due to few interruptions and being able to work the hours they like etc) as here they are not doing the washing or cleaning, mostly eat out as it is cheap to get done for you here etc. and no travel time and such.

The age group of people doing this seems to be around 25-40. however that might just be because i tend to know people in my age bracket.

Also many move around. If what they have set up is not reliant on Thailand they can move where ever they want. So 'extended holidays' eg a month in China or Vietnam etc, are common, as they can do their thing from many places. The time spent here can be a career helper as of it's own...your adding some language and concept of a different culture and so on. One girl got sent by her back home company she was only contracting for to Singapore to help with a business trip a senior manager was doing there. Something she would never have been picked for back home but as she was 'in the area' they thought she would be useful to have there. You never know where it might lead.

So i guess the people it works for like what they do, are looking to keep forwarding their careers, are self starters (probably the kinds of people who would do well wherever they worked), keep themselves in balance like they would back home and appreciate the lifestyle they have set up for them selves and don't jeopardise that by "under delivering from over partying or 'checking out' "

It is not THAT hard if you really want to live elsewhere to farangland, many are doing it. You don't have to do something 'weird and wonderful' or 'fringe' to make it work...often there are things within your own training or industry you can do. It takes some effort, but well worth it IMHO. :-)

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

The time spent here can be a career helper as of it's own...your adding some language and concept of a different culture and so on. One girl got sent by her back home company she was only contracting for to Singapore to help with a business trip a senior manager was doing there. Something she would never have been picked for back home but as she was 'in the area' they thought she would be useful to have there. You never know where it might lead.

I would say from UK or Europe this would be a total opposite.. A couple years on a CV working in Thailand would be a black stain that many never recover from.. Maybe its different in Oz but once you step out of the career path in the UK, coupled with the stigma of Thailand, you better be able to make it on your own outside of a corporate system.

As to the usefulness of some Thai language and culture.. Its benefits are a bit narrow IMO.

[Sparkle]

Agree with you LOS.

The thing is they are not so completely set up as - Working in Thailand....so to speak....some are within the system back home - just doing the (outsourced thing - ie they could be doing it from their local UK flat) others have 'contracted work - and really the companies they are providing to are expecting delivery of a service and may not even be clearly aware (some are and don't care) of where they are exactly in the world...so long as their work/contract gets done.....so going 'back' to the UK or where ever the resume only has work being done for the home market on it. Where that work was 'done from' is not so relevant (but not being a direct employee could be a problem...doesn't seem to worry these guys too much though), it isn't 'i have been working in thailand for 3 years'....it's I've been doing x,y and z projects for abc company for the past 3 years.

From what i know seems the pay being earned ranges from a bit less (20%) than they would get back home to up to 2.5 times home earnings (contractors/contract finders only).

yes is a risk...i only know of 5 aussies doing this kind of thing here...most i know are in fact UK, some are US and then other various Europeans. Most are 'self contractors' but i do agree it is a risk and certainly not for all industries...and i don't have experience myself with UK career things, i would have to get more detailed stuff from the gang from there.

Thai in itself is not so valuable...but seems to get lumped in a bit with 'asian understanding' in some cases. Trips to china seem to add the most value to people....(from my limited/breif experience of seeing how they go) - but no i wouldn't pin my hopes on the 'value' of Thai alone but can be of some value depending on the situation.

and yes the people it is working best for are the ones for whom things would be going well for no matter where they were. The kind that would move ahead one way or another and probably could operate outside the corporate tank if it came to that.

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

Thai in itself is not so valuable...but seems to get lumped in a bit with 'asian understanding' in some cases. Trips to china seem to add the most value to people....(from my limited/breif experience of seeing how they go) - but no i wouldn't pin my hopes on the 'value' of Thai alone but can be of some value depending on the situation.

I nearly mentioned the China angle.. Would think Chinese skills in cultural and language would have to be a strong positive in the coming years.

and yes the people it is working best for are the ones for whom things would be going well for no matter where they were. The kind that would move ahead one way or another and probably could operate outside the corporate tank if it came to that.

Agree here.. I tend to find a lot of expats are the tribe of one type folks anyway, the kind that a 'career' path isnt going to be on the cards for them anyway and are more independent or contractor types. Hard to know if its one causing the other or vice versa but some people are not going to fit the mould either way.

As to working well for them anyway aspect.. I had a long discussion with someone who was saying my impression of doing a Thai company / working here was a waste of time. His counter was that while its true many many more businesses fail here, that could be due to the lack of biz skills for many farangs (who would be an employee back home) and that some farangs will always be able to succeed. My argument was that if they had the entrepreneurial skill to make it in Thailand, where they may have modest success here those same skills would probably make the multi millionaires back in the west without the 'headwind' of Thailand.

[Sparkle]

[
As to working well for them anyway aspect.. I had a long discussion with someone who was saying my impression of doing a Thai company / working here was a waste of time. His counter was that while its true many many more businesses fail here, that could be due to the lack of biz skills for many farangs (who would be an employee back home) and that some farangs will always be able to succeed. My argument was that if they had the entrepreneurial skill to make it in Thailand, where they may have modest success here those same skills would probably make the multi millionaires back in the west without the 'headwind' of Thailand.[/quote]

I 150% agree with you on that one. Of all the 'entrepreneurial' people here that i know ALL but 1 are running/growing/expanding their businesses back home...where the businesses are based. They are not undertaking operations here for exactly the reason you said above.

They are here for lifestyle reasons or 'business related' reasons eg closer to their Asian customers etc.. It's what we do. Can't see the reason to go at it here when there is a paved road for it back home. Business is growing faster back home since we moved here, as we are getting more of the important stuff done and the guys back there are moving faster and not doing as much buck passing as they did when we were physically on hand. Working better than expected. Time zone is good for us too.

Of my 'contractor' friends...they nearly all have contracts outside of Thailand...where the money is better and a contract means a bit more..

I would totally agree...if you are going to go the entrepreneur route....try it at 'home' if at all possible...unless of course what you are doing here is not too serious or just for some fun.

[ThatGuy2]

this is a great read, thanks all

For me it will only come in handy WHEN i win ths weeks AUD$50 mill lotto

otherwise its the holiday once maybe twice a year and living my Thai life through TR's of other BM's


TG2

[Sparkle]

Yeah also on the businesses failing due to lack of business skills .... good point...might be why the contractor guys are doing so well....they are not jumping too far from their employee backgrounds...they are sticking with what they know and building on it....if they were launching into full on businesses they may well not be enjoying themselves so much.

Probably comes from some honest evaluation on their part of what they are really good at and and what they want for themselves. I'll ask a couple of them about it too....i would be interested to know their thoughts on it.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

I nearly mentioned the China angle.. Would think Chinese skills in cultural and language would have to be a strong positive in the coming years.



.

i have my eye on Asia as a possible next destination
although plenty of jobs availabe for english speakers, i may take one fo the languages in the next few years