sentenced to the death penalty

[JAM]

SURAT THANI, Thailand (Reuters) - Two Thai fishermen were sentenced to death on Wednesday for the rape and murder of student Katherine Horton after an unusually short trial and sustained political pressure.

"The court has ruled them guilty of all the crimes they were charged with and imposes the maximum penalty," judge Jamnong Sudjaimai told the two men in the packed courtroom in the southern province of Surat Thani.

Bualoi Posit, 23, and Wichai Somkhaoyai, 24, arrested 10 days ago, pleaded guilty last Thursday to charges of rape, pre-meditated murder and hiding the corpse of the 21-year-old Horton on the resort island of Samui.

Police say the pair had watched pornographic movies on their boat before swimming ashore to rape Horton, who was studying at Reading University and was on holiday on Koh Samui with a friend over the New Year.

[Tyfon]

The girl's mother asked for the sentence to be limited to life in prison, but Taksin was applying pressure in favour of judicial murder because they had harmed Thailand's tourist image. As if a lynching is going to improve things.

[steve@thaib]

I wonder if these kids will actually get topped, or if the deal was that they plead guilty and their sentence will get quietly commuted to life in prison once all the reporters have gone home?

[jimholio]

To be honest im not sure whats the hardest penalty. Lifetime imprisonment in Thailand or death sentance. Me myself, if i were a poor thai with no means of getting out again then i would probably prefer the death penalty.

[CeeGee]

According to the news here, they are going to appeal.Strange, how can you appeal if you plead guilty.
However, it appears that the appeal process could take up to two years!!!
How much any one want to bet that in six months if you ask what happened to them, no one knows anything.

[steve@thaib]

Originally Posted by jimholio

To be honest im not sure whats the hardest penalty. Lifetime imprisonment in Thailand or death sentance. Me myself, if i were a poor thai with no means of getting out again then i would probably prefer the death penalty.

Might be less attractive when they strap you down and roll your sleeve up..

[steve@thaib]

Originally Posted by CeeGee

According to the news here, they are going to appeal.Strange, how can you appeal if you plead guilty.
However, it appears that the appeal process could take up to two years!!!
How much any one want to bet that in six months if you ask what happened to them, no one knows anything.

That's what I was getting at. Whatever happened to the cop that shot those two kids a couple of years ago?

[fun2have]

good point steve, that was the MIB who shot the 2 young british tourists.

i think the man in that incident pleaded not guilty.

but never heard more about it.

[whuakito]

Originally Posted by jimholio

To be honest im not sure whats the hardest penalty. Lifetime imprisonment in Thailand or death sentance. Me myself, if i were a poor thai with no means of getting out again then i would probably prefer the death penalty.

I would probably choose the death sentence. < after reading about thai prisons

[JAM]

this seems to be the most realistic artical i have read





Thai killers 'will avoid death'

Two men sentenced to death for murdering and raping a British backpacker in Thailand will have their sentence reduced to life imprisonment, a legal expert has predicted.

Mark Stephens, a barrister with law firm Finers, Stephens, Innocent, believes the Thai judiciary acted out of a "cultural feeling of national disgrace" over the killing of 21-year-old Katherine Horton.

Bualoi Posit, 23, and Wichai Somkhaoyai, 24, face lethal injection for attacking Miss Horton, who disappeared while holidaying in Koh Samui with her best friend Ruth Adams on New Year's Day. Her body was later found floating in the sea.

After the sentencing, the Reading University student's family thanked Thai police for quickly catching the culprits and helping them "seek an end to the uncertainties of this tragedy".

The Foreign Office confirmed that the men have 30 days to submit an appeal - but if they do not, an appeal will automatically be submitted by the court on their behalf.

No death sentence has been carried out in Thailand since 2003, although more than 1,000 people are on death row, according to Amnesty International.

Mr Stephens, who studied the Thai legal system for the International Bar Association, believes today's sentence will be reduced to life imprisonment at the Court of Appeal, as is customary for guilty pleas to murder.

He said: "It usually takes three to six months for a case to come before the Court of Appeal but in this instance it would be at the shorter end of the scale.

"I think part of the reason why they were sentenced to death is because the judge knew that (the sentence would get reduced).

"There is a cultural feeling of national disgrace over this incident and, as a consequence, I think they wanted to send a message to the Thai community and the international community that they are prepared to deal quickly with offenders of this kind."

© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2006, All Rights Reserved.

[Mr Floatplane]

What makes everyone so sure they did it anyhow? There was practically no trial and they have not been proven guilty – they merely said they did it. There is a big difference. How does anyone know a false confession was not extracted from them?
Facts aside, the Thai authorities would see it in their in the interests to quickly find someone guilty and have them punished. I am not saying that this is the case, and probably they are guilty – but I am skeptical of a judicial system that sentences without proving guilt.
Knowing the consequences of guilt, the fact that they pleaded guilty and then appealed makes me wonder why they pleaded guilty in the first place?
Still I am no lawyer and don’t really understand these things…

[pdj]

they seem a bit to smug to be innocent in my opinion.
every time ive seen them on the tv they both have had some sort of smile on there faces like they dont care.i think they are guilty ! it was a random attack which prob had no planning which was prob the reason they were arrested so quickly there must of been a lot of evidence at the scene.

[bigalsouth]

Apparently there was forensic evidence (semen from both of them) found on the victim.

About the policeman who killed the two tourists - he was sentanced to life imprisonment last year. Not sure I would like to be banged up for that long with people I may have helped to put away in the first place!

[steve@thaib]

Originally Posted by bigalsouth

About the policeman who killed the two tourists - he was sentanced to life imprisonment last year. Not sure I would like to be banged up for that long with people I may have helped to put away in the first place!

My point about that was is he still banged up? Deals are done and what we are shown is not always what happens

[del boy]

Originally Posted by pdj

they seem a bit to smug to be innocent in my opinion.
every time ive seen them on the tv they both have had some sort of smile on there faces like they dont care.i think they are guilty ! it was a random attack which prob had no planning which was prob the reason they were arrested so quickly there must of been a lot of evidence at the scene.

I have felt uneasy with regards to the speed and efficiency of this case. And if the now convicted men had been kept away from the worlds press, I would have been even more deeply suspicious.

But they have both been paraded on several occassions in front of the worlds press. If a confession had been forced from them, if it was me, I would use such an opportunity to scream and shout that I was innocent and a confession had been beaten out of me! (if that was the case anyway!). But they did not do this. As you said, they both had a smug look about them and showed no hint of remorse or innocence.

Personally, if it was me, i would prefer the death penalty to life in a Thai prison. Even if they do appeal against the death penalty and win, as they are both in their early 20's, spending the rest of their natural life in a thai prison could be for maybe 50 years or so! 50 years of hell in a Thai prison would be much, much worse than a quick, relatively pain free exit IMHO.

Still, whatever happens to these guys now, I doubt that if will get much more press in Britain, if any at all from now on. Apart from this girls family & friends it will all be soon forgotten. Recent history would suggest that this is not going to be the last of a murder of a Britton/Farang in Thailand. When it happens, it will make headline news here. To an extent, this maybe down to the law of averages. So many people visit here compared to the rest of SE asia, that inevitably there will be the odd tradgedy. I genuinely hope that this and similar incidents dont put tourists off as its the innocent thais that suffer. And I felt safer here than anywhere in Britain.

[steve@thaib]

[QUOTE=del boy]I have felt uneasy with regards to the speed and efficiency of this case. And if the now convicted men had been kept away from the worlds press, I would have been even more deeply suspicious.

But they have both been paraded on several occassions in front of the worlds press. If a confession had been forced from them, if it was me, I would use such an opportunity to scream and shout that I was innocent and a confession had been beaten out of me! (if that was the case anyway!). But they did not do this. As you said, they both had a smug look about them and showed no hint of remorse or innocence.

Personally, if it was me, i would prefer the death penalty to life in a Thai prison. QUOTE]

That's the point I was making, they knew what would happen if the pleaded guilty, they were going to get topped. Knowing that, how could anybody make you confess? What could they threaten you with\do to you that is worse than death?

There is DNA evidence here too, so let's face it they have got the right guys. Maybe you are uneasy because it has been dealt with so quickly and we would have dragged it out for a couple of years?

[butterflyblonde]

Originally Posted by steve@thaib

That's the point I was making, they knew what would happen if the pleaded guilty, they were going to get topped. Knowing that, how could anybody make you confess? What could they threaten you with\do to you that is worse than death?

There is DNA evidence here too, so let's face it they have got the right guys. Maybe you are uneasy because it has been dealt with so quickly and we would have dragged it out for a couple of years?

A lot of this talk has been going on in the UK, people feeling uneasy regarding how quick this has been pushed through.

But like you have said already..DNA can't lie and neither can these 2 individuals because of this conclusive evidence.

I think it's fair to say that this court case has been pushed though 'extra quick' simply to show the farang world they are doing all they can to get justice for the deceased and her family.
A job very well done I say, DNA proves it and I certainly won't lose sleep over these 2 guys.

[del boy]

steve@thaib,

I have to say that I can't help but think that you are somewhat naive to the effectiveness of a forced confession! Over your recent posts you have basically stated that you would never confess to a crime that you had not committed under any circumstances/pressures!

I am not referring to this case in particular, but just in general. Unless you are an SAS trained soldier conditioned to resist nearly everything that somebody can throw at you, i am sure that most people will have a breaking point!

Maybe I'm a wimp, but it wouldn't take much more than a couple of electrodes attached to my testicles for me to confess to anything they wanted me to say!

I have to say that I think that these guys are guilty as charged. But I think that coercion is a lot effective than you give credit for, and sadly still in some countries in the world. Especially when there is a definate motive for a quick result.

[steve@thaib]

Originally Posted by del boy

steve@thaib,

I have to say that I can't help but think that you are somewhat naive to the effectiveness of a forced confession! Over your recent posts you have basically stated that you would never confess to a crime that you had not committed under any circumstances/pressures!

I am not referring to this case in particular, but just in general. Unless you are an SAS trained soldier conditioned to resist nearly everything that somebody can throw at you, i am sure that most people will have a breaking point!

Maybe I'm a wimp, but it wouldn't take much more than a couple of electrodes attached to my testicles for me to confess to anything they wanted me to say!

I have to say that I think that these guys are guilty as charged. But I think that coercion is a lot effective than you give credit for, and sadly still in some countries in the world. Especially when there is a definate motive for a quick result.

Hang on, who are you to say I am naive or to read anything into what I write? If you want to quote me then go ahead, but please don't put words into my mouth. I've been pretty careful to avoid all the 'Iwould prefer death to ..' type comments and have never, not once, even remotely suggested that I would or would not 'confess' to anything.

This is not about me, what I would and would not do. You can call me naive if you must, but let's be serious here. The idea that two young men would quietly walk to their deaths on the back of fabricated DNA evidence and forced confessions is something I find ridiculous; sorry.

We're not talking about 1970s South Africa or Zimbabwe, this is Thailand 2006; do you believe that the Thai cops had these kids stood in tin baths with their goolies hooked up to the mains? They were on TV every couple of days in freshly laundered shirts looking relatively healthy to me, or is that just my naivete again?

How the hell would that conversation go?

Cop: 'ok, it's electric in the testes unless you confess'

Kid: 'what will you do to me if I confess?'

Cop: 'Well, we'll probably kill you a bit'

Kid: 'Ok, I'll choose death, pass me that pen chief; it's a fair cop'

Cop: 'Smart boy, see you next week for a good topping'

I'm no expert but when we got locked up as kids all they did was seperate us and tell each one that the other said you did it and we were all coughing like bronchial wrecks in minutes. Me naive? Maybe, but maybe someone took Bravo 2 Zero too literally.

[del boy]

steve@thaib,

I think that maybe I owe you an apology, if you were offended by my post! It was written immediately after coming home after a HEAVY night out on the beer!!! I actually only have a vague memory of writing it! I guess that the point I was trying to drunkenly make was that regardless of this specific situation, who can say what we would confess to under extreme pressure unless you find yourself in this situation. Maybe todays Thailand is not South Africa in Zimbabwe in 1970, but neither is it free from from corruption. To what extent, who knows?

I did say that I was not being specific to this case, but talking about the effects of a forced confession in general. Reading this thread and your posts again, I apologise for getting too personal! Regards.

[steve@thaib]

Thanks for reasonable words DB, and I do take your point.