Swedish woman found dead on Mai Khao beach

[dawsey]

Originally Posted by DREW

Since when has it been a ''local custom' (in Thailand or any other country) to bare your chest if you are a woman and then be raped and murdered.

Not being sensitive to a death or the Family who may be grieving is far worse in my book.

Should we murder you?

There should be a MENSA test for members before they join this Board.

C'mon Drew, I'm sure neither sishow or Minder is happy with the fact this poor girl was murdered.
I think they are just saying that we all should not take for granted that Thailand is any safer than our own countries.
This girl had every right to think she could go topless on a deserted beach, but obviously someone saw her, and she paid a dear price for being in the wrong place at that time. Very sad, but it should make others think about their situation when in LOS too.

[garyteets]

Just for clarification: Rape is a crime of anger not of lust or sex. Yes, a man can be turned on by a woman but that is not the primary reason he rapes her. Many old, ugly and fully dressed women get raped. If men raped out of sexual desire then why wouldn't there be many many many more rapes in scantilly clad sexual promiscous places like Phuket, Pattaya, Bangkok etc?????? Don't say because you can pay them either because locals can have sex with girls for under 500 Bht.

[DREW]

Originally Posted by dawsey

C'mon Drew, I'm sure neither sishow or Minder is happy with the fact this poor girl was murdered.
I think they are just saying that we all should not take for granted that Thailand is any safer than our own countries.
This girl had every right to think she could go topless on a deserted beach, but obviously someone saw her, and she paid a dear price for being in the wrong place at that time. Very sad, but it should make others think about their situation when in LOS too.

Dawsey I like you and I think you are switched on with a great outlook on life; so I do respect you

However I completely dissagree, how would you feel if it were one of your daughters? and please be honest and think as well before you answer (it is more relevant to you than most posters or posers)

do you remember that poor kid in Samui and her folkes and that Poor girl in Itlay last year and her folkes and sister and how they felt.

Do you really think they want ass*holes telling them it was all her own fault for being a loose woman or not wearing a chasity belt...........

and where do you draw the line

''well she did not close the curtains so it was her fault that he broke in and raped her as she was getting changed''

Come on..........there is no excuse for rapists and murderers I am just not having that..........get the barstard and string him up ...STOP BLAMING THE POOR GIRL

and neanderthals who have been to Thailand twice and then think they can write a book on locals values and customs is not going to be read by me or anyone else

Regards

Drew

[dawsey]

Originally Posted by DREW

Dawsey I like you and I think you are switched on with a great outlook on life; so I do respect you

However I completely dissagree, how would you feel if it were one of your daughters? and please be honest and think as well before you answer (it is more relevant to you than most posters or posers)

do you remember that poor kid in Samui and her folkes and that Poor girl in Itlay last year and her folkes and sister and how they felt.

Do you really think they want ass*holes telling them it was all her own fault for being a loose woman or not wearing a chasity belt...........

and where do you draw the line

''well she did not close the curtains so it was her fault that he broke in and raped her as she was getting changed''

Come on..........there is no excuse for rapists and murderers I am just not having that..........get the barstard and string him up ...STOP BLAMING THE POOR GIRL

and neanderthals who have been to Thailand twice and then think they can write a book on locals values and customs is not going to be read by me or anyone else

Regards

Drew

Hi Drew,

I obviously didn't convey what I was trying to say at all. I agree 100% in what you are saying in the post quoted above.
However, what I was trying to point out was, it is unfortunately no longer safe to do the kind of innocent thing (sunbathing topless on a deserted beach) that this Swedish tourist did. Through no fault of her own, some one has taken her life, and reading how the Thai justice system works, will probably escape with it. Its wrong, its unfair, and its happened. Everyone should be aware of it.

Dawsey

[Dupree00]

This could have happened in any secluded place anywhere in the world. But Western women should be aware that the sexual freedom that they may take for granted in their own countries may not be accepted (and in some cases result in abuse) in extreme misogynist cultures such as Thailand. In Thailand women seem to be 2nd to men and possibly the water buffalo.

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by garyteets

Just for clarification: Rape is a crime of anger not of lust or sex. Yes, a man can be turned on by a woman but that is not the primary reason he rapes her. Many old, ugly and fully dressed women get raped. If men raped out of sexual desire then why wouldn't there be many many many more rapes in scantilly clad sexual promiscous places like Phuket, Pattaya, Bangkok etc?????? Don't say because you can pay them either because locals can have sex with girls for under 500 Bht.

I would say there ARE many rapes.. But do you think the police take a bar girl seriously if she says a customer man handles her ?? And if he then throws a grand at her when he walks out is it no longer rape ??

[Lantern]

From this mornings Sydney Morning Herald.
Female Phuket tourists to be given safety whistles - News - Travel - smh.com.au

[garyteets]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

I would say there ARE many rapes.. But do you think the police take a bar girl seriously if she says a customer man handles her ?? And if he then throws a grand at her when he walks out is it no longer rape ??

My definition of rape is non-consentual sex or having sex without the consent of the victim. Girls who receive, agree to receive or put themselves in a position to receive money for sex cannot say they were raped. The main point I was trying to make but failed to mention in my previous thread was that these bargirls do not get murdered as the end result of being raped first. To reinterate being dressed or undressed in and of itself does not lead to rape and/or being murdered. Rape is not a crime of passion.

[LivinLOS]

So anyone that 'put themselves in a position to recieve money for sex' cannot be raped ??

I know plenty of bar girls who have told me horror stories of non consensual sex.. Of going back to a room and finding multiple other guys there and essentially gang raped.. Of deciding a customer was too weird, or wanted to do something they would not agree to and raped..

The fact that they work in the sex trade should not IMO preclude the right to still choose if they have sex and with whom.

As to not being murdered after the event.. Perhaps you should read the patts press a bit more.. Or remember the girl strangled and stabbed to death in Patong and the UK perp caught (in the airport literally with her blood on his shoes) and let go. Or the US marine with the dead BG in her room (again shipped out of country) or the gang rape of a BG by a group of US navy (IIRC also unpunished) or or or..

Basically despite the way many of us mongers paint it.. A bed of roses it aint..

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Lantern

From this mornings Sydney Morning Herald.
Female Phuket tourists to be given safety whistles - News - Travel - smh.com.au

just saw that on the site myself....how ridiculous......certainly a Thai response....talk about raising panic in tourists......'hi welcome to thailand...now you will be needing this whistle to be with you so if you get into trouble you can blow it'

it will however shock people into seeing this is a dangerous place...for people who are not men or water buffalos....(yes i do agree that it seems that way at times) and care needs to be taken......but safety whistles with your passport stamp......what idiots are responsible for these types of statements going out.....could a mensa test even cover it.

[garyteets]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

So anyone that 'put themselves in a position to recieve money for sex' cannot be raped ??

I know plenty of bar girls who have told me horror stories of non consensual sex.. Of going back to a room and finding multiple other guys there and essentially gang raped.. Of deciding a customer was too weird, or wanted to do something they would not agree to and raped..

The fact that they work in the sex trade should not IMO preclude the right to still choose if they have sex and with whom.

As to not being murdered after the event.. Perhaps you should read the patts press a bit more.. Or remember the girl strangled and stabbed to death in Patong and the UK perp caught (in the airport literally with her blood on his shoes) and let go. Or the US marine with the dead BG in her room (again shipped out of country) or the gang rape of a BG by a group of US navy (IIRC also unpunished) or or or..

Basically despite the way many of us mongers paint it.. A bed of roses it aint..

The original thread pertained to the statement being made that the "reason" the girl was raped and then consequently murdered was because she had been seen topless. Meaning the sequence was "attire, sexual arousal, rape then murder". However in actuality men don't rape because they are horny or murder because they have a hard on. They are deranged men with needless to say severe mental issues.

Concerning BG's yes they can at any time withdraw their consent. However they have put themselves in a vary precarious to say the least situation. Not to belabor the issue but here again "Rape is Not a Crime of Passion" so those gang f**ks are done not out of lust but out of rage. The girl assuredly has put herself in a place of opportunistic venue and is out of alternatives to say "I no longer consent to this foray".

I agree with "ain't no bed of roses" and many times have felt symphathy for some of those girls. We as men believe the BS that we "are" sexy and then find out she is a starfish and basically wants you to get it up, get it in, get in off and get it out.

[midnightsun1]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

just saw that on the site myself....how ridiculous......certainly a Thai response....talk about raising panic in tourists......'hi welcome to thailand...now you will be needing this whistle to be with you so if you get into trouble you can blow it'

it will however shock people into seeing this is a dangerous place...for people who are not men or water buffalos....(yes i do agree that it seems that way at times) and care needs to be taken......but safety whistles with your passport stamp......what idiots are responsible for these types of statements going out.....could a mensa test even cover it.

This has to be one of the dumbest solutions to ongoing problem in Thailand.... Whats next... Lets give all the rapist and murders who are wondering free a red paper clip to remind them to be good boys and girls.

[TV Channel 11]

POLICE HAVE ONLY ISSUED WARRANT & MiniVDO: The Thai minister of Tourism and Sports inspected the location where the Swedish tourist was murdered and visited the victim’s friend at the hospital to convey his condolences.

BREAKING UPDATE: WE HAVE JUST HEARD TUESDAY MORNING THAT POLICE HAVE ONLY ISSUED WARRANT FOR A SUSPECT.

To see or download mini-video, go to ThaisNews

Following the murder of a Swedish tourist, Hanna Charlotta Backlund (pronounced Becklund, her name has 2 dots above the A in Backlund) on Mai Khao beach in northern Phuket last Saturday, the Tourism and Sports Minister Weerasak Kowsurat visited Phuket late Sunday night to ask police to speed up the probe into the murder of the tourist. Mr. Weerasak asked police to brief him on the details of the beach and the attack before inspecting the crime location yesterday morning. He affirmed that the authority will do its best and quick, fair investigation to bring the criminal(s) to justice. The minister also went on to visit the victim’s girl friend who is undergoing post trauma treatment at Phuket International Hospital. The minister told reporters that the friend knows that the Thai government is seriously working on searching for the murderer(s). He also vowed to quickly restore confidence in tourist safety as well as work with travel agents and explain the facts to Swedish media, work with local governments to ensure better safety, and distribute alert whistles; as he told more to a Swedish journalist and our reporter after the site inspection:

A viewer also informed Andaman News that a memorial is being organized for Ms. Backlund and to vigil against hate crime directed at women across the globe, next Saturday, March 22 at 10:30 AM on the site of her murder, Mai Khao Beach, North Phuket, Thalang district. He invites people to come by looking for bright pink signs, bringing hope and peace. He said the “Vigil is against Violence and to do nothing is no longer an alternative”. For further info, email MustavaMond@gmail.com or Telephone 084 842 4581


MiniVDO: Police state that there is much progress in the murder case after obtaining useful information from witnesses.
To see or download mini-video, go to ThaisNews

A integrated operation centre comprising city police, tourist police, crime suppression and forensic officers is established to work on the Swedish tourist murder case to ensure that the wrong doers are swiftly brought to justice. Located at the Tha Chartchai check point, the joint force will hold a meeting at 10 o’clock everyday to report on any progress, according to the Provincial Police chief Decha Butnampet. He further stated that the investigation is much in progress due to information from witnesses and evidence at the crime scene, which should lead to the arrest of criminal(s). Phuket Police chief Pol Maj Gen Decha Butrnamphet revealed that the Phuket Tourism Association offered a 100,000 baht reward for information leading to the arrest of the murder(s). Meanwhile Miss Backlund’s body has been sent to Bangkok and is to be repatriated to her home country by the Swedish Embassy.

Andaman News TV11 (VHF dial) at 8.30am & local Cable TV channel 1 + maybe FM90.5 Radio Thailand 6pm, broadcast to Phang Nga, Krabi & Phuket provinces, & possibly FM108 Mazz Radio 7.30pm in Phuket, Tuesday 18 March 2008 & Êӹѡ¢èÒÇ ¡ÃÁ»ÃЪÒÊÑÁ¾Ñ¹¸ì......ThaisNews »ÃШÓÇѹÍѧ¤Ò÷Õè 18 ÁÕ¹Ò¤Á 2551

[Dodger]

Originally Posted by garyteets

The original thread pertained to the statement being made that the "reason" the girl was raped and then consequently murdered was because she had been seen topless. Meaning the sequence was "attire, sexual arousal, rape then murder". However in actuality men don't rape because they are horny or murder because they have a hard on. They are deranged men with needless to say severe mental issues.

Concerning BG's yes they can at any time withdraw their consent. However they have put themselves in a vary precarious to say the least situation. Not to belabor the issue but here again "Rape is Not a Crime of Passion" so those gang f**ks are done not out of lust but out of rage. The girl assuredly has put herself in a place of opportunistic venue and is out of alternatives to say "I no longer consent to this foray".

I agree with "ain't no bed of roses" and many times have felt symphathy for some of those girls. We as men believe the BS that we "are" sexy and then find out she is a starfish and basically wants you to get it up, get it in, get in off and get it out.

So are you saying that a bg cannot at anytime change her mind??? say in the event as illustrated by Lil and noted by you, of turning up to a room to find 5 blokes in there??

Also, who states rape is never done as a crime of passion or lust but only in anger?? where did you get this theory from?? how does anyone proove that??
can't ask the rapist can they?? he will say what is required surely to reduce his sentance or anyway he is mentally deranged, so no answer from him could be used in research, could it??

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by garyteets

Concerning BG's yes they can at any time withdraw their consent. However they have put themselves in a vary precarious to say the least situation. Not to belabor the issue but here again "Rape is Not a Crime of Passion" so those gang f**ks are done not out of lust but out of rage. The girl assuredly has put herself in a place of opportunistic venue and is out of alternatives to say "I no longer consent to this foray".

How can you not see that this is exactly the same as dressing immodestly, and staying in an isolated area, in a country where women dont always have the powers that they do in the west. To me this is exactly the point many are making that drew rallys so hard against.

As for rape not being a crime of passion.. Well thats a discussion.. I tend to think its a very grey scale.. The beach boy that takes the foriegn girl back to a room, and expects some sex (cause she came there unaccompanied) and then rapes her.. I would say thats exactly due to lust / crime of passion and not a hate crime.

[garyteets]

Originally Posted by Dodger

So are you saying that a bg cannot at anytime change her mind??? say in the event as illustrated by Lil and noted by you, of turning up to a room to find 5 blokes in there??

Also, who states rape is never done as a crime of passion or lust but only in anger?? where did you get this theory from?? how does anyone proove that??
can't ask the rapist can they?? he will say what is required surely to reduce his sentance or anyway he is mentally deranged, so no answer from him could be used in research, could it??

If you read the beginning statement of the paragraph that you are quoting me from it says that the girls CAN change their mind.

Concerning the validity of my theory on rape as a crime of rage it is a fact that most law and/or phycologist agree on. I don't have time this morning to research the case studies proving my point. However if you do then have at it.

[Sparkle]

I think garyteets was more saying that in premeditated cases where they guy/gang or whoever is planning to rape you and gets you into a position where they are set up to do it....no amount of say no! is going to stop it......it comes down to if you can escape or not......

every woman in the situation of being raped is saying NO......but at that point it makes no difference at all....they are raping you unless you can get away.

so i think he was more saying that the unfortunate situations of bg's is that they find themselves in these terrible situations regularly where it really comes down to if the guy they are with is a rapist or not, at that point, if he is a rapist, simply changing ones mind and saying no i don't want to be raped is not going to have an effect that it would on a decent guy who is not a rapist.......if he is planning to rape there is not much chance for the girl..... if he is not then things will progress as the transaction she agreed to.

so i don't think the issue is can she change her mind, she can and should be able to (i think Garyteets is saying that too)....but in the case of rape.....it most likely won't make any difference....a criminal will be a criminal.

in terms of passion /rage/lust i guess there would be cases that cover all those bases at times.

[LivinLOS]

I think the point is that rape can be a very large range.. In actual fact some 'rape' here might even confuse the rapist as in his own cultural norms any girl that comes to his room is agreeing to sex..

Yes random street rape is a hate crime, its a sexual attack.. But thats very different from denied sex that leads to rape IMO.

Also rape and molestation are very high on the Thai (often unreported) crime list, even among family members and in small rural communities. If women that came here actually thought about the risks they put themselves in, while in a 3rd world and more lawless environment they would go a long way to protecting themselves. Eg my GF wont be out alone of she can help it, she certainly avoids groups of unknown thai males, wont ride the roads after dark, etc etc etc.. Shes Thai and realizes some of the dangers for a female here.

I mean hell, I am a big ugly, 6 foot something heavy guy, and if I am off the tourist beat I sure keep my eyes open, wont be venturing into thai karaokes or places where drunk thai males may gather, let alone females camping in isolated areas while giving the appearance of promiscuity and exhibitionism. Its not blaming the woman for her own attack, but it is saying she must have been crazy nieve to put herself in that position.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

I. Its not blaming the woman for her own attack, but it is saying she must have been crazy nieve to put herself in that position.

of course she was crazy naieve, werent we all at that time of life??

and how is she really to know?
i mean anytime someone reports a bad incident or suggests that Phuket may not be the safest place they get run over by every ex-pat on the board. if someone mentions that so-sn-so country put a travel advisory on Thailand, people on this board rip that country to holy hell

so if a bunch of intelligent, in-the-know ex-pats have such a defensive manner about these type of situations, how do you think TAT or the local thai politicians react. i am sure a lot more defensive than the people on this board to the detriment of unkowing travelers

[Dupree00]

I've heard that a random act of rape, ie. a career rapist, is a power compulsion. To overpower the woman is the gratification.