At it again !!!

[LivinLOS]

Well obviously no backing down in that... Expect more sillyness for months !!

[snorter]

The reason its different is that the money spent goes into the entire economy, benefiting (in theory) all citizens equally no matter what thier vote.. Where Thai vote buying benefits ONLY those citizens that indulge in the corruption practice.

Cant you see that difference ??

.....when Thaksin did it it was called 'populist policies', 'marketing gimmicks' and 'cheap hand-outs to the poor'..........

[LivinLOS]

.....when Thaksin did it it was called 'populist policies', 'marketing gimmicks' and 'cheap hand-outs to the poor'..........

I would say theres a huge dividing line right there tho.. Populist policies, 30 baht healthcare, cheap loans, etc.. Those benefited people equally no matter whom they voted for.

Handing 500 bahts out to buy a vote, is benefiting only the voter and the votee.. If you refuse the money you dont benefit.

But all of this comes back into the asian top down feudal systems, where the pooyai can tell the lower people what to think, where those that have made money can buy allegiance and loyalty through thier munificence. The very basis of nam jai / boon khun and Poo yai / Poo noi mentoring is deeply ingrained in the culture, perhaps even more so in the rural populations.

[ChoakMyDee]

The reason its different is that the money spent goes into the entire economy, benefiting (in theory) all citizens equally no matter what thier vote.. Where Thai vote buying benefits ONLY those citizens that indulge in the corruption practice.

Cant you see that difference ??

Well truthfully yes and no. The vote buying in "respectable" Canada is aimed at poor segments of the population. The one candidate is promising benefits to the old and sick the other candidate promising $100 million to the working class for jobs( 100 million is really nothing). What they are doing is buying votes form the "poor" with promises of riches to come. That is buying votes no matter how you look at it. It actually makes me sick because the amount of money they promise brings about no real change and they know it. Yet people in western countries like to look down their noses at the 3rd world.

[marc26]

Well truthfully yes and no. The vote buying in "respectable" Canada is aimed at poor segments of the population. The one candidate is promising benefits to the old and sick the other candidate promising $100 million to the working class for jobs( 100 million is really nothing). What they are doing is buying votes form the "poor" with promises of riches to come. That is buying votes no matter how you look at it. It actually makes me sick because the amount of money they promise brings about no real change and they know it. Yet people in western countries like to look down their noses at the 3rd world.

promising to provide them with government programs that should be available to citizens doesn't compare to buying votes

[dennisinkamala]

Huffing and puffing aplenty. No house will fall down and it will be biz as usual.

Sufferers will be the tourist industry and all the service industries, retailers etc.

Shopping mall landlords have seen the writing on the wall and have raised rents and expenses accordingly.

Que sera

[ChoakMyDee]

promising to provide them with government programs that should be available to citizens doesn't compare to buying votes

Yes but what about providing jobs to the poor. Jobs that are temporary at best and do nothing to create long term benefits for the poor. Since when is it the governments job to provide jobs for people? When they are promising jobs to people they are basically dangling cash in front of their noses. All they are doing is trying to get votes with the promise of money. How is that not buying votes?

[marc26]

Yes but what about providing jobs to the poor. Jobs that are temporary at best and do nothing to create long term benefits for the poor. Since when is it the governments job to provide jobs for people? When they are promising jobs to people they are basically dangling cash in front of their noses. All they are doing is trying to get votes with the promise of money. How is that not buying votes?

all the programs promised are their to help the citizens, it is completely different than handing cash out for a vote

-tax-credits for 1st time homebuyers
-5k credit for clothing costs, home inspection costs and land transfer costs
-100mil for skills training
-900mil over 4 years for new drug benefit plan

giving people skills training, incentive to purchase their 1st home, better drug benefit programs. all of these campaign promises(and some will probably not be followed through) are aimed at bettering citizens lifes
sure that is the same as giving some rice farmer 300-500baht to go buy whiskey

it is not even comparable and i pretty sure you realize that

[LivinLOS]

And as I said earlier.. Those programs reward people who vote for them and people who didnt vote for them equally.. Sure you can argue that its appealing to a segment of society but thats still not the same as paying for a vote where only the person whose doing the buying and selling is getting benefits.

[nelsonone]

yep...porkbarrelling (legit) vs outright bribery

[ChoakMyDee]

And as I said earlier.. Those programs reward people who vote for them and people who didnt vote for them equally.. Sure you can argue that its appealing to a segment of society but thats still not the same as paying for a vote where only the person whose doing the buying and selling is getting benefits.

Yes, I agree.

My post was made in response to TanMan's post about democracy only working with a level playing field. You couldn't buy a vote for 500 Baht if everyone was equally wealthy because the 500 Baht would mean nothing. The same goes for a politician promising jobs to Canadians if they vote for him. People who don't need a job won't be affected so if everyone was equally wealthy then promises of money, jobs or other financial benefits wouldn't be effective. That's what I meant when I said it is the same; in that respect it is the same. As long as there are poor people in "democratic" countries then they can be bought the same as people in 3rd world countries. I can go into this in greater detail if you like but I think it is a wee bit OT.

[Red Bull]

The same goes for a politician promising jobs to Canadians if they vote for him. People who don't need a job won't be affected....

Not affected directly but there would be a huge indirect benefit to providing jobs. Less people claiming unemployment insurance, less homeless, these people who are now working are spending that money... the list goes on and on. These promises are there to stimulate the economy and increase the overall standard of living in Canada (though I really doubt any of these promises will be implemented post-election)...

[11]

While Moose election seems to have taken over from Thai situation - heres a economic update ...

SET - since 26/08 start of PAD protest has fallen 11.3%

THB - has STRENGTHENED 10 satang to 34.25 over this period.

THB 10 year Gov bond yields have held (astonishingly) steady at 4.10%.

(In comparison the Dow has fallen >8% in this period - all things considered Thailand is holding up reasonably well, despite the politicians being 'at it again').

[nelsonone]

so who would the BMs prefer Samak or Somchai????

[11]

so who would the BMs prefer Samak or Somchai????

Neither - how about Lee Kwan Yew - what Thailand needs a benevolent dictator, and all the domestic options available seem intent on self agrandisment (along with self-enrichment).

[marc26]

Not affected directly but there would be a huge indirect benefit to providing jobs. Less people claiming unemployment insurance, less homeless, these people who are now working are spending that money... the list goes on and on. These promises are there to stimulate the economy and increase the overall standard of living in Canada (though I really doubt any of these promises will be implemented post-election)...

but they will provide every single program to the useless drug addicted scum that roam Vancouver and do nothing but add negatively to society
make sure they have their mouth guards so they dont burn their lips on their crackpipes!!!

[ChoakMyDee]

but they will provide every single program to the useless drug addicted scum that roam Vancouver and do nothing but add negatively to society
make sure they have their mouth guards so they dont burn their lips on their crackpipes!!!

Hehe, I had heard about the free needles when I lived in Victoria but the mouth guard is a new one to me.

[JayBee]

Yes, I agree.

My post was made in response to TanMan's post about democracy only working with a level playing field. You couldn't buy a vote for 500 Baht if everyone was equally wealthy because the 500 Baht would mean nothing. The same goes for a politician promising jobs to Canadians if they vote for him. People who don't need a job won't be affected so if everyone was equally wealthy then promises of money, jobs or other financial benefits wouldn't be effective. That's what I meant when I said it is the same; in that respect it is the same. As long as there are poor people in "democratic" countries then they can be bought the same as people in 3rd world countries. I can go into this in greater detail if you like but I think it is a wee bit OT.

There is a rather large difference between hard cash paid, and promises made. In US, once they are elected. politicians often ignore or forget about promises made. The fact is, that it would be impossible for them to make good on many, if not most, of their promises, because unless the economy is booming, you cannot cut taxes, and undertake large spending increases at the same time. Nonetheless, this is what many of them promise to do, time after time.

[ChoakMyDee]

There is a rather large difference between hard cash paid, and promises made. In US, once they are elected. politicians often ignore or forget about promises made. The fact is, that it would be impossible for them to make good on many, if not most, of their promises, because unless the economy is booming, you cannot cut taxes, and undertake large spending increases at the same time. Nonetheless, this is what many of them promise to do, time after time.

Well that is 3 different people telling me the same thing so I must admit defeat.

[marc26]

Well that is 3 different people telling me the same thing so I must admit defeat.

haha
i have been reluctantly admitting defeat my whole life
it never gets easy 55555

although i don't really agree with it, i do see your point
hell, at least the thai farmer gets his 500baht for whiskey, all we get in wst is reneged promises 5555

[slinggalin]

Would you guys say it's safe to travel there these days??????


Thanks much

[slinggalin]

Guess nobody knows

[11]

Would you guys say it's safe to travel there these days??????

Yes - perfectly safe!

[snorter]

Things have taken a turn for the worse after the arrest of Chamlong.

Police have been trying to disperse PAD protestors who were blockading parliament. Reports of PAD protestors losing legs, police being stabbed and a car bomb killing an anti-govt protestor.

The maid watching NBT just now said a tank has broken down the door of the police headquarters.........I hope she's misunderstood!!

[landofsmiles]

Bangkok Post says 162 injured in crowd dispersal :-( 3 policeman shot in Parliament! and a woman dying from an explosion near the Chart Thai party’s headquarters.

[Dodger]

Ooops, I just told some guy he would be perfectly okay coming here in a months time, if the above and the footage I'm looking at on the news, not understanding what they aresaying, but loads of people being dispersed with tear gas, I might have been just a tad premature with my advice??

[ATMwalking]

Neither - how about Lee Kwan Yew - what Thailand needs a benevolent dictator, and all the domestic options available seem intent on self agrandisment (along with self-enrichment).

Isn't that what we thought we had with Taksin in the early days? He was so rich already, why would he bother with corrupt activities...

[11]

Isn't that what we thought we had with Taksin in the early days? He was so rich already, why would he bother with corrupt activities...

Yes - dissapointing outcome ... perhaps compulsory limit on assets allowed - over that cap then excess goes back direct to Treasury with a ban on overseas divestment. Cap on term of office - say 5 to 8 years tops - they usually go nuts after that long in power anyway!

[Datsun]

I land in BKK in 7 days

Where exactly are the parlament buildings in BKK, are they near the tourist areas?

[andmel]

Talked to my GF now, she is at Government House

she say 2 dead today.

Last thing she said before she ended the conversation was that she had pain in her eyes, I guess that means that teargas is used again.