At it again !!!

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Simbo

Interesting to see that there's been very little reporting on the 10000 protesters at the US Democratic Convention and the fact that the St Pauls cops have been using heavy handed tactics- wading in on them with tear gas, batons and smoke bombs. Democracy in action.

like i said in another thread
if you can seriously compare a protest in an established country that got a little out of hand vs a protest in a 3rd world country with simmering tensions then its laughable

also, why does every issue always comes back to the US with you guys? it gets boring.

plus, you are taking away from a very informative thread that people are using(i know i am using this as a concerned husband to know what is going on) to find out what is going on

[LivinLOS]

Airport clear at the moment.

[Dupree00]

Originally Posted by Simbo

Interesting to see that there's been very little reporting on the 10000 protesters at the US Democratic Convention and the fact that the St Pauls cops have been using heavy handed tactics- wading in on them with tear gas, batons and smoke bombs. Democracy in action.

Actually it’s the Republican Convention. And I would call this an anti-war protest. Hopefully it doesn’t turn out like the Chicago Democratic Convention did in the 1960’s which was an anti Vietnam War protest. The Chicago police cracked a lot of skulls.

AP photog arrested while covering anti-war protest - Yahoo! News

[landofsmiles]

Originally Posted by 22sye22

is there any protesting still going on at phuket airportor have they all gone

The airport is clear. They all went to the Provincial Hall this morning and looks like most have gone on up to Bangkok...let's hope so!

PHUKET CITY: People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters began gathering at Phuket Provincial Hall (Sala Klaang) at 8 am this morning, their numbers increasing all morning to reach about 500 by 11:30 am.

The protesters, taking cover from the sun under six tents, plan to board five tour buses to Bangkok to join fellow PAD protesters in the capital.

The coaches are expected to depart this afternoon.

The Phuket PAD travel plans come despite Bangkok being declared under a state of emergency following a clash between pro- and anti-government supporters there early this morning, at about 1:30 am.

Under the emergency decree, which applied only to the capital, gatherings of more than five people are prohibited.

Officials at Phuket Provincial Hall provided the PAD with electricity for their public address system, Gazette reporters at the scene noted.

Some 200 PAD protesters at Phuket International Airport have also been asked by the local PAD leaders to come and join the group at Provincial Hall, where they plan to present Governor Niran Kalyanamit or one of his deputies with an official letter explaining why Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej must resign.

[22sye22]

Originally Posted by landofsmiles

The airport is clear. They all went to the Provincial Hall this morning and looks like most have gone on up to Bangkok...let's hope so!

PHUKET CITY: People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters began gathering at Phuket Provincial Hall (Sala Klaang) at 8 am this morning, their numbers increasing all morning to reach about 500 by 11:30 am.

The protesters, taking cover from the sun under six tents, plan to board five tour buses to Bangkok to join fellow PAD protesters in the capital.

The coaches are expected to depart this afternoon.

The Phuket PAD travel plans come despite Bangkok being declared under a state of emergency following a clash between pro- and anti-government supporters there early this morning, at about 1:30 am.

Under the emergency decree, which applied only to the capital, gatherings of more than five people are prohibited.

Officials at Phuket Provincial Hall provided the PAD with electricity for their public address system, Gazette reporters at the scene noted.

Some 200 PAD protesters at Phuket International Airport have also been asked by the local PAD leaders to come and join the group at Provincial Hall, where they plan to present Governor Niran Kalyanamit or one of his deputies with an official letter explaining why Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej must resign.

are the railways runing ok now

[Simbo]

Originally Posted by marc26

like i said in another thread
if you can seriously compare a protest in an established country that got a little out of hand vs a protest in a 3rd world country with simmering tensions then its laughable

also, why does every issue always comes back to the US with you guys? it gets boring.

plus, you are taking away from a very informative thread that people are using(i know i am using this as a concerned husband to know what is going on) to find out what is going on

200 arrests 'a little out of hand'- come on. So its OK to turn water cannons on people and pepper spray them in an 'established country' but not condone the behaviour here? I dare say there are 'simmering tensions' in St Paul tonite and for the next few days with typical overkill gung-ho policing. The reason this was commented on was that it was going on- the fact that this is in the States is immaterial. If it had being going on at the same time in London or Paris I would have been equally prepared to comment on it. Some of you guys are very quick to jump to the defence of what goes on at home while lambasting others behaviour- maybe I'm not the only one that's boring. This is not Brit or US bashing- interesting how quick you are to jump down people's throats today, not just on this thread.

The beauty of a democracy is the right to protest and comment. I am exercising that right to comment- seems like you are trying to implement your own version of censorship because you perceived what I said to be Yank bashing. By making a post no one person takes away from a thread- it is the sum of its whole and long may that continue to be the case. 'Concerned husband' just look at the apathy of Thais around here to see how much THEY actually care- its the Falangs on this and other boards who are making a big issue out of this.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Simbo

The beauty of a democracy is the right to protest and comment. I am exercising that right to comment- seems like you are trying to implement your own version of censorship because you perceived what I said to be Yank bashing. By making a post no one person takes away from a thread- it is the sum of its whole and long may that continue to be the case. 'Concerned husband' just look at the apathy of Thais around here to see how much THEY actually care- its the Falangs on this and other boards who are making a big issue out of this.

just by making a post about US, when it has zero relevance to this thread and have 3 other people commenting on it takes away from the useful information that people have been providing
there is no need for that crap in an important thread like this

[alfredo garcia]

Originally Posted by Simbo

200 arrests 'a little out of hand'- come on. So its OK to turn water cannons on people and pepper spray them in an 'established country' but not condone the behaviour here? I dare say there are 'simmering tensions' in St Paul tonite and for the next few days with typical overkill gung-ho policing. The reason this was commented on was that it was going on- the fact that this is in the States is immaterial. If it had being going on at the same time in London or Paris I would have been equally prepared to comment on it. Some of you guys are very quick to jump to the defence of what goes on at home while lambasting others behaviour- maybe I'm not the only one that's boring. This is not Brit or US bashing- interesting how quick you are to jump down people's throats today, not just on this thread.

The beauty of a democracy is the right to protest and comment. I am exercising that right to comment- seems like you are trying to implement your own version of censorship because you perceived what I said to be Yank bashing. By making a post no one person takes away from a thread- it is the sum of its whole and long may that continue to be the case. 'Concerned husband' just look at the apathy of Thais around here to see how much THEY actually care- its the Falangs on this and other boards who are making a big issue out of this.

Nice post . I too believe participating in this forum is democracy.
Mark, I hope everything is safe for your wife. I too worry about loved ones in Thailand, but they seem to be aloof to the situation. Thais, go figure?

[edje123]

Originally Posted by alfredo garcia

I too worry about loved ones in Thailand, but they seem to be aloof to the situation. Thais, go figure?

Called my girlfriend today, mai bpen rai all the way in isaan.
She only said: "minister have to think good now". Case closed. Then she went on that she "has to make farmer" and that it's heavy work, "farang can not do like that"

I was asking myself why the king doesn't intervene (yet)? Can't he make 'em stop making troubles?

[Jeep]

i issued my own warning against traveling to the us. back in 88.........you can keep it. and stein stein and stein...........who run it.

[11]

Never knowing whats the next loony step in this process, on todays menu we have ..

Widespread disruption of public services is expected today as state enterprise labour unions have confirmed they will down tools to press for the resignation of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej.

Somsak Manop, vice-president of the Thai Airways International labour union, said members will take retaliatory measures today in response to the government's use of force against the people.

Mr Somsak admitted this action will inevitably affect air travellers.

This one I think is perhaps pretty disconcerting ....

The CAT Telecom labour union will block international direct dialling if Mr Samak refuses to step down today, union leader Somboon Sarpsarn said.

This would affect companies doing business with foreign countries, he said.

No kidding !!!

Still on the bright side they have decided to not cut off electricity and water - so thanks a lot for not sending Thailand back to the stone age!

Bangkok Post | Breaking News | Unions confirm power strikes will go ahead today

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by Simbo

200 arrests 'a little out of hand'- come on. So its OK to turn water cannons on people and pepper spray them in an 'established country' but not condone the behaviour here?

Actually I am of the opinion that yes its totally OK and its a sign of the fact that the system does have control that it can turn water cannons on people when they are breaking laws.

I am all for peoples right to assemble, peoples right to protest, peoples right to have a voice.. But when that voice is one that breaks laws, disrupts the lives of others, and is dangerous then for the common good control must be exercised. The fact that control is not able to be exercized here is where the problem lies.

Of course its vital that theres a balance of power so that the ability to express civil dissent is balanced against state power to control its citizens. This is and always will be a fine line and a constant debate but I dont thin anyone could argue that PAD is way past the line.

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by marc26

just by making a post about US, when it has zero relevance to this thread and have 3 other people commenting on it takes away from the useful information that people have been providing
there is no need for that crap in an important thread like this

Its just the most recent demonstration to use as an example and the US is an easy target as it holds closely to the ideals of clean governance.. Nothing more.

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by alfredo garcia

Nice post . I too believe participating in this forum is democracy.

Any time when people can get together and have the opinions shared and ideas discussed is when these things get hammered out.. Whether thats holding forth in a bar, sat with family, or sitting on the steps on a gov building.

Partly why I dont agree with the taboo about discussing religion or politics.. I realize it can lead to arguments or even broken friendships, but on the other hand if someone has views I really cant stand (strong racism, bigotry, etc) then I dont want to be thier mates anyway.

[TanMan]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Actually I am of the opinion that yes its totally OK and its a sign of the fact that the system does have control that it can turn water cannons on people when they are breaking laws.

Yeah, but could you do it ???

[TanMan]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

Actually I am of the opinion that yes its totally OK and its a sign of the fact that the system does have control that it can turn water cannons on people when they are breaking laws.

Do you mean a "snap" law???

I would guess that a lot of people on a lot of lawns or on a lot of runways just do not have the same internet connection you do... or access to the same news,,,,

They are listening to bullhorns right now probably....

[landofsmiles]

Some of these media outlets need their balls cut off. Don't they realise the damage they do with some of their badly researched comments?

Someone has posted on another forum that Australian Channel 7 Morning News supposedly said today"any Australians in Thailand should get out in case things get any worse!"

[MassMoose]

So far I have not seen any television coverage here in America just on the web.
This article taken from CNN.com states that 6.5% of Thailands GDP is tourism.
Unrest threatens Thailand's tourist industry - CNN.com

Hope this situation works it self out before the 14th..not holding my breath

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by MassMoose

So far I have not seen any television coverage here in America just on the web.
This article taken from CNN.com states that 6.5% of Thailands GDP is tourism.
Unrest threatens Thailand's tourist industry - CNN.com

Hope this situation works it self out before the 14th..not holding my breath

I have heard similar numbers.. Ranging from 5% upwards..

However thats GDP.. If you look at that as foriegn exchange, which is then not simply passing money from person to person hand to hand, but increasing the wealth of the country relative to other countries. Tourism is far far more important.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by landofsmiles

Some of these media outlets need their balls cut off. Don't they realise the damage they do with some of their badly researched comments?

Someone has posted on another forum that Australian Channel 7 Morning News supposedly said today"any Australians in Thailand should get out in case things get any worse!"

that is why i value this thread
i can hear straight from you guys what is going on annd cut out the BS

[MassMoose]

I just read an article on yahoo.com(probably AP source) and it seemed like the planned strikes did not have much effect on things. Has anyone in LOS seen differently?

[Dodger]

Yes, they turned the fecking internet off this morning for about 5 hours and I couldn't do any work, hence I'm sitting here at 10pm catching up, all I can hear is that litlting wafting melody............Tiger, Tiger, Tiger!!!

[faultytowers]

Originally Posted by landofsmiles

"any Australians in Thailand should get out in case things get any worse!"

Advice for Brits is basically use your common sense .

If you are in Bangkok, or have plans to travel there, you should keep yourself informed of developments, including by regularly checking this advice and the media.

You should exercise caution, avoiding any demonstrations or large gatherings of people. See the Political Situation section of this advice for more details.

If you are planning to visit Thailand in the next few days you should consider the present situation in Bangkok and that travel in Thailand is subject to possible disruption when making your decision. Railway services are disrupted. You are advised to check with your airline before travel as flights are also affected, for example from Hat Yai airport.

[11]

- Samak will NOT resign. (As per his radio address this morning).

CAT Telecom union postpones cutting overseas circuit until Thursday

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's CAT Telecom labour union which earlier planned to cut the country international circuit telecommunications gateway Wednesday afternoon in support of the demonstrators demanding for the ouster of the coalition government has postponed the decision until 9am Thursday.

The CAT Telecom labour union had said it would make a decision Wednesday afternoon whether or not to cut the international circuit telecommunication or gateway. Disconnecting the gateway would affect access to the Internet and international telephone services as well as financial transactions.

Speaking to TNA, Somboon Sapsarn, president of the CAT Telecom labour union, said union members had decided to postpone the decision.

Although a full work stoppage at CAT Telecom has not begun, about 40 per cent of the agency's 5,600 employees nationwide already took a day off on Wednesday. It is expected that more would join on Thursday.

The firm's operations on Wednesday did not disrupt its services to the public because most of those who were absent were in administration.

Meanwhile, CAT deputy managing director Marut Buranasettakul told TNA that the company's labour union had no authority to cut the international circuit telecommunication gateway.

Only senior executives of the company could do it, said Mr. Marut, adding that services at the company continued normally as of now. Representatives of the labour union were invited for talks with senior executives and were told that work disruption would greatly affect public users, said Mr. Marut.

-- TNA 2008-09-03

Lets hope CAT does not go ahead and axe the internet - but be warned just in case you are reliant on the net for anything. Crazy we came that close to chaos.

BKK Post has further comment ..

CAT union backs down

KOMSAN TORTERMVASANA

The CAT Telecom union has called off its threat to disconnect the international gateway and suspend international direct dialling, fearing it would paralyse telecommunication services and put businesses with overseas links in chaos.

Such drastic action would be the last resort if the prime minister remained stubborn and did not step down, union leader Somboon Sarpsarn said yesterday.

He said the union had a total of 10 steps in mind to pressure the government and cutting off international communications was the last one. As of yesterday, he said, members were at only the second step in their anti-government activity.

He said the union and the State Enterprise Relations Confederation would monitor developments and believed Premier Samak Sundaravej and his cabinet might step down before the union executed the 10th step.

He said that 30% of CAT Telecom staff took leave yesterday but all services were still functioning automatically.

However, if the people in charge of the control systems took leave together, then services would be crippled instantly, he said, adding that all staff were entitled to two weeks' leave under the law.

SET down 6% so far this week.

USD/THB (34.42) THB weaker by ~1% so far this week.

[LivinLOS]

Thai army disobeys PM's orders -- so what's new?

Thu Sep 4, 2008 4:05pm IST

By Ed Cropley

BANGKOK (Reuters) - In July 2006, an 85-year-old Thai general dressed up in full military regalia to address a bunch of graduating young officers. It was no ordinary passing out parade.

The general was Prem Tinsulanonda, chief adviser to King Bhumibol Adulyadej, and his message was clear and aimed straight at elected Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawtra.

"Soldiers are like horses and governments are jockeys but not owners. You belong to the nation and His Majesty the King," Prem, also a former army chief and prime minister, said.

His comments were prophetic -- two months later, the army removed Thaksin in the 18th coup in 74 years of on-off democracy.

They also show how this week army chief Anupong Paochinda could refuse orders from Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to evict, by force if necessary, the thousands of protesters who have been occupying his official compound calling for his head.

Put simply, Thailand's army has never taken orders from the government.

"The military is not answerable to the executive," historian and Thaksin biographer Chris Baker said. "The elected government comes in every now and then, and they can ride on the horse for a bit but they don't actually own it or control it."

Within hours of Samak declaring emergency rule on Tuesday to get the army to remove the protesters from Government House, Anupong made it clear he would deploy only unarmed troops and only to prevent pro- and anti-government groups clashing.

"If we thought we could use police and soldiers to get them out of with a peaceful conclusion, we would do it. But we think that that would create problems," he said.

In its most glaring form, the military's disdain for elected government -- which, ironically, started with the overthrow of absolute monarchy in 1932 -- is shown in the frequency with which it has launched a coup: on average, once every four years.

But its control in a country where patronage is still the prevailing social force stretches way beyond merely the periodic seizure of political power.

As well as more than 300,000 men, it has a widespread network of informants, a legacy of anti-communist activities during the Cold War, and is a major conduit for humanitarian projects evolving from the revered royal family.

The army owns TV and radio stations, was able to corner up to 20 percent of the national budget, and has as many as 1,000 generals on its staff, even though most of them are more familiar with golf, rather than rifle, ranges.

Besides minor operations in Vietnam, and the occasional border skirmish with Myanmar, it has fought only one proper war -- a three month affair against neighbouring Laos in 1987-88. Japanese occupation in the Second World War was unopposed.

Attempts to cut the armed forces down to size have invariably gone nowhere.

Only after 1992, when troops opened fire on huge democracy demonstrations, killing dozens, was its public standing so low the government could even contemplate military reform.

The financial crisis of 1997 led to further squeezing of the military share of the budget, which dropped to as little as six percent under Thaksin, whose career started with the police -- the army's bitter internal rivals.

After the putsch against Thaksin, the army-appointed government increased defence spending by 66 percent to $4.5 billion for 2007-08, leading many to question its motives in ousting the prime minister on the pretext of "rampant corruption".

Thaksin even claimed the army tried to assassinate him, sacking General Pallop Pinmanee as deputy director of the shadowy Internal Security Operations Command after a junior officer was found near his home in a car packed with explosives.

Pallop contemptuously dismissed any plot, saying: "If I had wanted to kill him, the prime minister would not have escaped."

[11]

Taklen from 2 other Forums .... not necessarily my views ....

A short history of the Chakri dynasty for any noobs

To those new here the history of the royal bloodline here can be quite interesting.

The Chakri dynasty/bloodline begins 9 generations ago in 1782, but to get to Rama 1 you need to begin with his predecessor, King Taksin.

K. Taksin:

Taksin was born into a Chinese merchant family and entered into the royal service under the patronage of a Thai noble man. At the age of 30 he gained the rank of Phrayaa, became the governor of Tak province and assumed the name of Taksin. Shortly after the Burmese sacking of the capital Ayuthaya in 1767 he gathered up a band of followers under the promise of reuniting the country and driving out the Burmese invaders. Which, fair play to him, he did. With the country floundering, the succession was up for grabs, and he grabbed it. All was fine except for one thing, he was insane. And what should be done with a nutjob with the life of millions in his hands, well, his generals put him in a sack and beat him to death with clubs of sandalwood.

Enter his regal successor, one of his generals – Rama I

Rama I. (1782 – 1809)

So the beginning of today’s Royal Bloodline begins here, with a general of a madman who assumed power after the monarchy before him was destroyed by the Burmese. Chao Phraya Chakri (the Rama titles weren’t introduced until Rama III ) began restoring the culture destroyed by the Burmese and moved the capital from Thonburi to Bangkok. A court fortune teller predicted the dynasty will last for 9 generations. Succeeded by his son Loet La in 1809.

Rama II (1809 - 1824)

Didn’t do much. Continued to restore the destroyed culture.

Rama III (1824 – 1851)

Rama III went beyond just restoring the culture by developing trade with China and increasing domestic agricultural production. Introduced the Rama title, and chose himself as number 3. Was succeeded by his half brother.

Rama IV (1851 – 1868)

Rama IV originally missed out on the throne to his half brother Rama III and lived as a monk for 27 years. During this monastic time he became adept at Sanskrit, Latin and English, studied western sciences and kept an ever watchful eye on the outside world. Upon taking the throne in 1851 he immediately courted the diplomats of the powerful European nations to avoid colonisation.

Having also studied western sciences he tried to demythologise Thai religion (a process still not completed) by aligning Buddhist cosmology with modern science. He loosened Thai trade restrictions and signed many trade agreements with Western powers. He instituted educational reforms, developing a school system (*snigger*) along European lines. Although he was fond of the West’s logic and reason, and wished for it to replace Thai superstition wherever possible, he warned his subjects ‘imitate and learn from them, but don’t wholeheartedly believe in them’. He was also the first monarch to show his face to Thai commoners in public.

Being of a scientific mind and having a particular interest in astrology, he calculated an upcoming solar eclipse in 1868. Wanting to discredit the common Thai belief that a solar eclipse was in fact the dragon Rahu eating the sun, then disgorging it when frightened by the drums and fireworks that the Thais would let off, he organised a large expedition 140 miles south of Bangkok and invited a French expedition to witness the event. Unfortunately he chose an uninhabitable swamp to host the party and he and his son, Rama V contracted malaria. He died shortly afterwards.

Rama V ( 1868 – 1910)

Rama V – probably the second most worshiped king in the Chakri dynasty – continued his father’s work on reform. Educated by European tutors, he abolished prostration before the king as well as slavery and state labour. Relations with Europe and America were built, as were railways, a civil service and the legal code was restructured.

A new spirit cult has swept the Thai public since 1991 which reveres the great Rama V in the class of a demigod. Every Tuesday evening thousands of Bangkok residents go to a bronze statue of the great man to offer candles, pink roses, incense and whiskey. Worship begins at around 9 pm at his statue in Royal plaza by Dusit zoo.

Oddly enough very few of these Rama V cultists appear to acknowledge that the great Rama V had to concede more Thai territory than any other king since the Sukhothai era! Laos and Cambodia were conceded to French Indochina and 3 Malayan states to British Burma to avoid total colonisation.

He was the first Thai King to visit Europe (twice), and having done so introduced chairs, knives, spoons and forks to Thailand, and discouraged eating with your hands while sitting on the floor, as was the Thai tradition. Since the Ayuthaya period Thai women had kept their hair cropped short, but upon one of his visits to Europe he asked his number one concubine to grow her hair long after the European fashion, her being one of the first Thai females to sport long hair since the 15th century.

His palace on Koh Si Chang was abandoned when the French occupied the Island in 1893.

Rama VI (1910 – 1925)

Rama VI was educated in Britain and during his reign introduced compulsory education and educational reforms. He further ‘Westernised’ the country by making the Thai calendar conform to western models. In 1909 a royal decree required the adoption of Thai surnames for all Thai citizens to parallel the European system, where beforehand children were given a single, original name with no tie to family identification.

In 1912 a group of military officers unsuccessfully attempted to overthrow the monarchy, the first in a number of coup attempts that has continued to this day.

As a show of support for the ‘Allies’ in WWI he sent 1300 Thai troops to France in 1918.

Succeeded by his brother in 1925.

Rama VII (1925 – 1935)

During Rama VII’s 10 years of rule, a group of Thai students living in Paris mounted a successful coup d’etat against absolute monarchy. This bloodless revolution led to the development of a constitutional monarchy along British lines. One of the King’s final official acts was to outlaw polygamy in 1934.

In 1935 he abdicated without naming a successor and retired to Britain.

His 10 year old nephew was promoted by the cabinet, even though he was studying in Switzerland at the time, and continued to do for another 10 years.

Rama VIII (1935 – 1946)

Was announced King at the age of 10 while studying in Europe. Didn’t return to his Kingdom for another 10 years.

During this time the country’s name was changed from Siam to Thailand in 1939.

He arrived back in Thailand in 1945 only to die from a gunshot to the head under mysterious circumstances in his bedroom the following year. Although there was no evidence of an assassination, three of his attendants were arrested two years later and were executed in 1954.

The general consensus among modern historians is that the attendants were sacrificed to settle a karmic debt for letting the King die during their watch. Succeeded by his brother, king Bumpipol Adulyadej.

[11]

And another ....

Einstein, Steven Hawking and Oppenheimer all rolled into one

Last week I was working with the employees of an American company that has operations here in Bangkok. It’s a multinational name that all of you would be familiar with – a truly globe-straddling enterprise. I asked a few employees to prepare some simple worksheet projections for me to show WEEKLY projections for the next four years.

I expected to get columns totaling 208 weeks.

Instead, I received projections from two employees – employees with university degrees who hold respected jobs in this global company – each with 192 weeks.

I was puzzled.

Not unusually, I was eating lunch in a restaurant in Sukhumvit when I opened the reports on my computer to review them. I happened to be sitting at the bar, so I looked at the bartender and asked her how many weeks there are in one year.

“Oooh!” she exclaimed, as if I’d just asked her to explain the subtleties of Einstein’s general theory of relativity. “One moment!”

She actually grabbed a calculator. A few keystrokes later she beamed at me proudly, “Forty-eight!”

My brow furrowed. A waitress arrived at that moment to pick up a drink order. Like the bartender, I know the waitress well from too many three-Singha lunches, and I asked her the same question.

To her credit, she didn’t grab a calculator. She did the math out loud. “There are four weeks in a month and twelve months in a year, so that’s…. erm… forty-eight weeks in a year!”

She looked at me expectantly. I held my head in my hands.

The bartender and waitress looked at me. “Is it right?” one of them asked.

I answered ‘no’ that in fact there were 52 weeks in a year. The bartender asked if I was sure. The waitress immediately showed the light of dawning understanding in her face. “Because some months have two or three extra days, right?”

Close enough.

“That’s right” I answered.

Among most Thai people I am an intellectual giant. Oppenheimer had nothing on me!

Of the four people in this parable who thought that there are 48 weeks in a year, I blame none of them for being ignorant of this seemingly simple fact. After all, they all employed an identical means for arriving at their answer.

It speaks to a greater failing in Thailand .

Education.

A man could be forgiven for believing that the typical bar girl, who has a sixth-grade education, is exceptional in her ignorance, but in fact my experience tells me that little separates bar girls from university graduates in terms of what they actually know or critical thinking ability. In fact, my experience argues that bar girls may be smarter.

The two multinational employees I mentioned above both hold bachelor degrees from respected Thai universities. The two restaurant employees I mentioned are both high school graduates (I asked) and both of them have studied at a certificate level after high school.

Were this an isolated example I wouldn’t waste time writing about it. In fact, after three years here, I am surprised when a Thai person I meet knows anything of significance, no matter how impressive their academic qualifications.

I was recently in the company of more than a dozen Thai people; all of them managers, all with secondary degrees, and most with a scientific background. In general I’m talking about the upper half of the Thai education system.

I mentioned the name of Nelson Mandela. One face lit up with recognition, and over the next several minutes, one woman about my age lectured her colleagues about the basic facts of Mandela’s life. Some knew his name, fewer still knew that he had been President of South Africa, but only one shining star knew that he had been a political prisoner. She incorrectly put his term of imprisonment at more than 30 years instead of the actual number of 27, but it seemed a forgivable lapse.

With some prompting she went on to explain his imprisonment in terms of the better known Burmese (please forgive me; here in Thailand we don’t say Myanmar ) political activist (dare I say opposition leader?) Ang Yang Syu Kyi.

In a group of university-educated 40 year olds in nearly any country in the world, I would expect a comfortable familiarity with the name Nelson Mandela and his life. In Thailand my only surprise was that someone in the room actually knew some salient facts about him.

It’s a sad fact that the vast majority of Thais are not taught to think.

I don’t believe it’s because they don’t want to.

I have many Thai friends… many people I hold dear in my heart. They are born with the same ambition and curiosity inherent in all of us. But real education is reserved for the very, very few. Usually this means being educated abroad. By Thai standards, this means that true education is for the super-rich; one more way to maintain absolute control over a population of people who hunger for something without knowing exactly what it is.

As I sit here typing, I’m torn between two endings to this blog. In one ending, I personalize it – saying to readers that when you spend time around bar-girls, the daughters of ignorant farmers in an ignorant country – to understand who they are and that they are a product of a system that creates them.

In my other ending, I talk about the current political polarization of Thailand . About how it’s nothing new. About how it is a manifestation of a class-society where the under-class outnumbers the upper-class who are threatened by democracy and fighting back. About how the country will continue to suffer through periods of relative stability and instability as long as there is a system which keeps the under-classes ignorant and hungry for knowledge, while reserving knowledge, power and wealth for the chosen few.

I suspect that both endings will bore the readers.

So let me try a different ending.

Ignorance in Thailand is nothing new. It is perpetuated by the upper classes on purpose, and as long as you are a sex-tourist you should be happy about that.

In Thailand crisis is the norm. The only period of relative stability started with Thaksin’s first election as Prime Minister and lasted until he publicly announced the sale of Shincorp in 2005.

Thailand has been in crisis – not for days, months, years or even decades – but for centuries. Like Africa , Thailand lives in chaos.

Education, or lack thereof, is one of the tools that is used in Thailand to separate the rulers from the ruled. Three years ago when I first arrived in Thailand I might have said that international visitors, the internet, etc were changing all that.

Now I’m not so sure.

Thailand IS in crisis. But here, that’s condition normal.

That’s why the Thai baht is weak. That’s why beautiful and kind women work as prostitutes. That’s why things are so ****ed up that no matter who you are, Thailand can welcome you.

The people who love living in Thailand or visiting regularly say ‘thank you’ every day for the fact that Thailand is so ****ed up. It’s what creates the paradise that we can’t find at home.

So, if you are a dedicated sex-tourist or sex-pat like me, then root for the political crisis to continue. Do not bemoan ignorance, cheer for it. Do not fret about instability, be happy about it. Do not seek to make things better for Thailand , instead, do your best to support chaos.

Pray that ‘common’ Thais are never educated; that they never rise to the level of other countries – your home and mine – or we may lose the land and the people we love so much.

Always remember that Thailand is what it is because even people with university educations think that there are 48 weeks in a year. It’s not stupid, exactly… it’s just wrong.

[LivinLOS]

Superb bit of writing.. And 100% spot on.

People look at you like your some kind of savant if you can add 3 number up in your head.. The woman who came to calculate the drapes, who calculates area all day every day, couldnt multiple numbers by 2 !! When she got a calculation wrong on the calculator and came to a number that was out by a factor of 10, she couldnt see her mistake even though its obvious a single doorway isnt going to need 80sqm etc.

[ChoakMyDee]

Yes, that was great reading. It no longer bothers me but when I first got to Thailand I was shocked to see a store clerk use a calculator to figure out the change from 200 Baht for a 150 Baht purchase. He's absolutely right, they're not taught how to think.

[TanMan]

That's my bud Werewolf.... it was a brilliant blog...

[Simbo]

This is why the 'elite' do not want the majority educated- ignorance is bliss and they keep making the cash- it's not rocket science. Imagine putting a second generaton Issan BG in as Finance Minister. Every angle would be 'worked' and the country would flourish subsidised by 'donations' from Western 'sponsors')!

[LivinLOS]

I have had a few bar chats where a theory evolved that perhaps one reason why the Thai elite seems so keep to restrict Thai immigration, is due to the fact that as westerners we overturn thier applecart. We marry 'low status' girls, we send thier dark offspring to good schools, we employ people based on thier desire to work not the width of thier nose or the color of thier skin, we are also more likely to train and retain staff giving them skills, where the Thai system seems to be to employ 3x more than you need, pay them all a subsistence wage, and let none of them become important.

By doing this we are actually destablizing the Thai top down control systems much more than you might think. Even the idea of equality and fairness, the personal responsibility angles, those cause real change.

[Denver]

Then let them buy into our Football Clubs.................But not for long!

You've got a point though!

[OldMan]

Some great stuff here. I have been trying to verbalise my thoughts on this issue for a while and now I find others have done it far more eloquently than I could possibly have done. Well done LivinLOS et al. I fear for Thailand, given that the elite are so keen to manipulate and keep the masses uneducated.

[muddyhoop]

I have been trying to find where Thailand ranks in the world on education but the only thing found was this

QS Top Universities: Top 400 universities in the THE - QS World University Rankings 2007

A Thai Uni came in at 284, thats 3 places higher than Cork Uni Ireland