Bangkok Post: Nightspots forced to shut earlier

[Nicke]

Nightspots forced to shut earlier

Midnight closing the general rule

Preeyanat Phanayanggoor and Yuwadee Tunyasiri

Cabinet has ordered bars, clubs and other nightspots across the country to observe new closing times that would shut most of them down at midnight.

The decision, part of the government's morals campaign aimed at curbing crime and drug problems, is certain to cause an uproar among owners and workers at thousands of discos, karaoke halls, go-go bars and massage parlours.

The directive comes into force on March 1.

All nightspots outside specified nightlife zones will have to shut at midnight, while there will be some exemptions inside the zones, of which Bangkok has three _ Patpong area, Ratchadapisek road and Royal City Avenue (RCA).

Discos and hostess bars inside the zones will still be allowed to open until 2am, the current legal closing time for all establishments across the nation, while restaurants featuring musical performances have until 1am.

Sansanee Nakpong, deputy government spokesman, said night entertainment venues with music and alcoholic drinks as well as karaoke would open from 6pm and close at 1am for those in the zones, and at midnight for those outside the zones.

At present only four provinces _ Chiang Mai, Uttaradit, Samut Prakan and Lamphun _ have not yet been subjected to zoning and all entertainment places may stay open until 2 am. Once the zoning is completed in these provinces they will have to observe the new opening hours.

Ms Sansanee said the new opening time for massage parlours in entertainment zones has been changed from noon to 4pm. Those outside the zones would open even later, at 6pm. Both will have to close at midnight. The new operating time does not affect spa and traditional massage parlours, however.

Discotheques and other dancing entertainment places are allowed to operate until 2am for those within the zones, but those outside them will have to close at midnight.

Pracha Maleenond, the deputy interior minister, said 24-hour khaotom (congee) foodshops would not be affected because they were not classified as nighteries, but as restaurants. They must however obey the Public Health Ministry's ban on smoking inside their shops.

Mr Pracha said he was worried the different opening and closing times would not be fair to every business operator and they might file lawsuits against the government. He personally preferred the same opening and closing times for all nightspots because it would be easier to control and regulate, but the Interior Ministry had no problems implementing the new order.

Mr Pracha said with the new complex opening and closing times, authorities would need to remember which venues opened and closed at what time.

Cabinet last month rejected the Interior Ministry's proposal for earlier closing times, saying the move would affect thousands of people.

The nightlife crackdown which began in August 2001 under the stewardship of Deputy Prime Minister Purachai Piemsombun, ended the free-wheeling ways of Bangkok's bars and clubs, which used to shut at dawn. Despite grumbles from club owners, the initiative was firmly backed by most members of the public.

[Nicke]

Is a beer bar with girls a hostess bar?

[pigandwhistle]

HI Nicke
Do you have any Confirmation on any change of the time that the Bars can open ?? As we all know the Rumor was 6pm ?


Regards
PigandWhistle

[K2]

Hi Nicke et al....

Thanks for a fun time last night - was good to get a chance to chat for once and nice to see your bar so busy!

From the original text of 'Purachai's vision this means 1am closing for bars with girls and discos, but if the police are considerate as is likely then 2am will probably be more likely.

In reading the comments of other members something is missing, what is the purpose of all this - the zoning rule is to control OWNERSHIP - the lease holders have little redress or power - especailly farang owners. If what is happening in BKK (see Stickman) then its clear that ownership is being transfered to TRT loyal owners and this will largly dictate who gets zoned where - and if anyone thinks that somewhere is 'obviously' an enternatment zone, they should see what happened in Soi Cowboy, Soi Zero and in Patong - The Platinum Complex and Shark Club.... all to easy to crush a business if its suits --- make no mistake.

As an aside Star Club is to close March 15th - bit of 'som num na' there as was taken over by Thai owners and never recaptured the crowds... shame as they have tried, but not enough room for 3 large clubs in Patong.

The new complex being built will be the biggest threat to current owners, and Soi Seapearl is obvious first casulty. Just make sure your Thai owner is TRT friendly and perhaps you'll be allowed to have asuccessful business. As for Safari - Nicke's comments are insightful, and will be very interesting to see what happens here - note elections on March 14th. (Please don't make this a target to be shut by too much discussion!!!!)

One other observation is that some posters are under the impression that all the P4P SHOULD exist here .... absolutly no self respecting Thai shares this view... the farang (western) slice of the adult entertainment industry is small (less than 15%) but is very visable - the majority is centered on local and especially ethnic Chinese interests (KTV/massage joints) which are generally low-key and inconspicuous which is good face saving for Thai society (a good thing perhaps???). This government (rightly) is persuing a better quality tourist - read higher spending - this is GOOD for Thai economy and thus the 60 million Thai's who live here. To make entertainment venues better tax revenue generating is the likely real goal, this would be greatly added by legalising prostituation and gambling, which is likley in K. Thaksin's next term.

To this 'up marketing' of Phuket (and Thailand as a whole) would see highly visable low end entertainment businesses being herded into a less visible compound as a likely course of action. The govenment has been very successful in hugly reducing the number of under 20 year olds in Patong and these new moves will again change the character of action in Patong and elsewhere.


Have fun while you can!

[chucky66]

Quote "This government (rightly) is persuing a better quality tourist - read higher spending - this is GOOD for Thai economy and thus the 60 million Thai's who live here. To make entertainment venues better tax revenue generating is the likely real goal, this would be greatly added by legalising prostituation and gambling, which is likley in K. Thaksin's next term.

To this 'up marketing' of Phuket (and Thailand as a whole) would see highly visable low end entertainment businesses being herded into a less visible compound as a likely course of action. The govenment has been very successful in hugly reducing the number of under 20 year olds in Patong and these new moves will again change the character of action in Patong andelsewhere" end quote

-------------------------------------------------------

I totally agree that thais dont give a flying fiddle about sex tourists. BUT would Thailands tourist industry do as well without them? (Now waiting for the we dont need thm comments!) In the long run without late night nightlife many europeans tourists may be of the opinion that they may as well go to Vietnam, Cambodai, Phillipines, Malaysia or easier still stay closer to home and go to Italy, Spain, Cyprus, Turkey etc etc where the nighlife is thriving and the beaches arent too different to Thailands etc. The americans and ozzies may not venture as far away from home for those very reasons too. Thailand must rise to the challenge of an incredibly competitive and fragile tourist industry. My point of view is that Thailands nightlife clampdown is a step backwards and not a progressive step forwards. Agreed if its infrastructure was better established and it was already attracting enormous numbers of tourists then a more sedate nightlife may not damage thailands tourist industry.

You said it yourself that all these changes will mean is the that the nightlife will resurface somewhere else or Patong etc will lose its image as a place where all the action happens.

So what will replace Star Club exactly?

[Coolhand]

What I don't quite understand is: the main reason for earlier closing times was to protect Thai youths from vice and drugs. The Thai government has imposed a midnight curfew on all thais under eighteen, so what does it matter what time the bars close? The young-uns are at home anyway.
Perhaps all Thai youths should be tagged?

[chucky66]

What I don't quite understand is: the main reason for earlier closing times was to protect Thai youths from vice and drugs. The Thai government has imposed a midnight curfew on all thais under eighteen, so what does it matter what time the bars close? The young-uns are at home anyway.
Perhaps all Thai youths should be tagged?

Good point coolhand. The curfew solves the problem which they have brought the zoning laws in for. You either have one or the other but you dont need both???

[K2]

There are 2 main reasons for current changes:-

1) Ownership - there is push to re-allocate entertianment industry real owners to ruling party friendly entities.

2) 'Up marketisation' - to conceal this end of tourism to attract the higher spending 'family' tourist.

The under 19 curfew was to counter rise in teen crime, the under 20 year old ban on bars/clubs has been very effective in Patong and BKK especially, although Pattaya and places outside Patong which are more Thai orientated still seems to have the odd youth managing to get in.

I think this move is retrograde, especailly when consideraing Singapores progressives steps in the other direction, but once ownership is 'correctly adjusted' then its likely that things will be relaxed. In the near term there is already changes going on and more out of the way bars will become more popular, but these are not likely to be particulaly safe places for the casual visitor to go.

If these moves result in higher end toursim booming then so be it - good for Thailand, the economy, but if they create an underground nightmare for the overworked/underpaid police (like gambling is now) then things will be pretty miserable for us in the near term.

Perhaps if the western P4P scene became a little less obvious, then this would appease the current push to heard it into ever smaller confines. Legalisation of prostitution and gambling would help in revenue generation and the police would have a stronger position to weed out the less desirable elements. You are right in saying there will be a push to Phillipines, Vietnam...maybe Cambodia (massive move in PP resulted in shift of P4P to Siem Reap recently) and if Burma opens up then the whole tourist game plan will take on new dimension.

Phuket has got very expensive, comparable in the Big Island of Hawaii !! so for the 'elite' card carrying tourists afetr a few rounds at Blue Canyon and deep sea fishing in Phang Nga Bay a return trip may be less than appealing, whereas many of the memebers here will reurn many many times.

Needs to be balance between Thai culture/ethics and ALL tourists and hopfully sanuk can be had by all in many diffrent ways!

Party while you can!!

NB: Don't know what happens to Star Club after closes on Mar 15th ...but guess would lie dormamnt until cheap enuff to be levelled for BigC or Lotus store or a hotel ahead of vast new complex opposite opening in Nov '04!

[Nicke]

Respite for Pattaya, Phuket?

Nightspots in Pattaya and Phuket can make official requests for nightlife zoning, but there will be no exceptions made for other entertainment venues wishing to stay open beyond midnight, Deputy Interior Minister Pracha Maleenont said yesterday.

From March 1, all nightspots outside specified nightlife zones must close at midnight while the new closing times will be 2am for discos and hostess bars inside the zones and 1am for restaurants featuring musical performances.

Mr Pracha said the government would strictly enforce the zoning policy as of March 1.

Deputy Prime Minister Purachai Piumsombun had made a careful decision on the issue, so no groups could be given exemptions, Mr Pracha said.

Mr Purachai said businesses would be affected by the change, but they would have to respect the law and make adjustments.

However, nightspots in Pattaya and Phuket, which are tourist cities, can ask the social order panel, chaired by Mr Purachai, to consider declaring their areas nightlife zones.

[richie007]

I can't belive the Thai gov't would be that stupid.................oh well at least i experienced the real Thai nightlife till 5am in the old days before this crap.

Its a real shame

[Swishtz]

Vote on the closing time law - scroll near the bottom of the Nation Newspaper page...66% think it is "nuts" so far

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/

[Nicke]

Vote on the closing time law - scroll near the bottom of the Nation Newspaper page...66% think it is "nuts" so far

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/

Done! Now when I voted it was 67%, also the second choice is in favour for later closing time.

It's funny, the Nation said thai-critics.com didnt know "facts" because early closing time was never going to happen. I hope they remeber those words now. lol. I dont worry about Patong or Bangla in particular, I guess we will be able to close 02 am anyway even if the situation is still very unclear. There will be another meeting in Patong today at 01 pm regarding this to protest against early closing time.

[Swishtz]

Done! Now when I voted it was 67%, also the second choice is in favour for later closing time.

It's funny, the Nation said thai-critics.com didnt know "facts" because early closing time was never going to happen. I hope they remeber those words now. lol. I dont worry about Patong or Bangla in particular, I guess we will be able to close 02 am anyway even if the situation is still very unclear. There will be another meeting in Patong today at 01 pm regarding this to protest against early closing time.

When did the Nation comment on Thai-Critics.com, I never saw that ?

[Nicke]

When did the Nation comment on Thai-Critics.com, I never saw that ?

Posted by Malaysian first, as below:

FARANG AFFAIRS: Sign where? And why?

Published on Jan 23, 2004

A website called www.thai-critics.com was lauched last Sunday
to collect “signatures” for a petition against what it seems to think are plans to close bars and clubs at midnight.

The launch of the website came nearly a week after the prime minister all but said during a Cabinet meeting this was not going to happen.

The petition urges “decision makers” to “exclude tourists destinations from the proposal”.

While we have nothing against someone organising petitions, they really should try to remain informed about the subject of their complaint.

They also need to be a bit more open about who they are exactly. The website gives no indication of who is organising the petition and how it will be presented when and if the time comes.

Expecting “decision makers” to take any notice of a vague, badly worded petition calling for halt to something that is not going to happen, and “signed” by people sending emails to an anonymous website is, well ... pointless.

The futility of it all is reflected in the number of people who have signed the petition.

As of last night, 424 people had lodged their email signatures for the petition, including a bloke called Kundi-kundi from the Maldives.

Unfazed by the fuss

Nearly all of those who signed the petition against earlier closing times at the www.thai-critics.com were from overseas, confirming our suspicions that most expat elbow benders are not all that concerned if they get tossed out of a bar an hour or so earlier.

We are of the opinion that most people who live in foreign countries long term are by nature an adaptable bunch, otherwise they never would have left the familiar comforts of their homelands in the first place. So things like this do not faze them.

Either that, or most of them usually find out within two weeks of arriving in a place were they can get a drink after normal closing time.

And in Bangkok, that is not a particular difficult endeavour.

[Swishtz]

The words egg and face come to mind

[Swishtz]

Review of zoning draft tomorrow

Published on Feb 16, 2004


The Cabinet is scheduled to review draft legislation on closing times and entertainment zones tomorrow. The result will determine whether the authorities will be able to enforce a midnight-closing rule on all entertainment venues outside designated zones starting March 1.

"We will have to stick to the old rule until the ministerial regulation on entertainment zones comes into effect," Local Administration Department's director-general Prasart Pongsiwapai said yesterday.

The current rule allows entertainment venues to remain open till 2 am, depending on their type of services. Nightclubs can operate until 2 am, discotheques until 1 am, and lounges, bars and massage parlours until midnight.

"We will wait and see how the draft will come out," Presart said.

The midnight closing time, which is scheduled to take effect on March 1, will require all entertainment venues outside "designated zones" to shut their doors by midnight

Venues in the designated zones will get two more operating hours.

However, the enforcement of the new rule will be possible only after the entertainment-zoning draft legislation becomes law.

The draft, if approved, will regulate the designated zones. It is being prepared by Deputy Prime Minister Purachai Piumsombun and has already won approval from Interior Minister Wan Muhamad Noor Matha.

Meanwhile, massage-parlour tycoon Chuwit Kamolvisit urged the government to rezone entertainment areas and award more operating hours to tourist zones.

"Areas with large number of tourists like Patpong and Sukhumvit should be allowed to remain open till 3 am," he said. He recommended that the number of tourists in an area should be a major factor in determining at what time places must close.

However, even in areas with a light concentration of tourists, Chuwit called for a 1am closing time.

Chuwit planned to submit his proposals to the Office of the Prime Minister tomorrow.

Benjawan Somsin

THE NATION

[chucky66]

My fingers are still crossed

[Coyotee]

Done! Now when I voted it was 67%, also the second choice is in favour for later closing time.

It's funny, the Nation said thai-critics.com didnt know "facts" because early closing time was never going to happen. I hope they remeber those words now. lol. I dont worry about Patong or Bangla in particular, I guess we will be able to close 02 am anyway even if the situation is still very unclear. There will be another meeting in Patong today at 01 pm regarding this to protest against early closing time.

I Just voted and now it is 68%.

Malaysian

[Swishtz]

Protesters seek to stop early closing


PHUKET TOWN: About 1,000 workers and business owners from the entertainment industry gathered outside the Phuket Provincial Meeting Hall this afternoon to stage a peaceful protest against tighter restrictions on opening hours.

The protesters caried banners and placards criticizing the 1 am closing time that is scheduled to be imposed on the island from March 1 as part of the government’s early-closing push around the country.

About 200 people traveled from Patong in a convoy of tuk-tuks to join the large crowd in asking the Phuket Governor, Udomsak Usawarangkura, as the government’s representative, to have the decision reconsidered.

One of the banners read, "If your face itches and you scratch your backside, will you feel better?" – a reference to the fact that Patong's entertainment industry believes that young Thai people, whom the government is trying to protect through the crackdown, do not frequent the resort town.

The leaders of the protest pointed out that the island – and especially Patong – was a popular destination for foreign tourists who would find the new closing time restrictive.

The governor was invited to join representatives of the industry on an official committee to examine the needs of Phuket and its strategies for tourism.

He was also urged to push for the closing time to remain at the existing 2 am until the committee delivers its report.

Gov Udomsak said that the attitude of the people in the entertainment industry had frequently been conveyed to Deputy Prime Minister Purachai Piemsomboon – who as Interior Minister was previously responsible for implementing the Better Social Order policy – by his predecessor as Governor, Pongpayome Vasaputi.

"We have never ignored the issue, then or now," Gov Udomsak told the crowd.

The entertainment group decided to go ahead and set up its own investigating committee, with eight representatives from Patong and eight from Phuket Town, and attempt to compile a report before the March 1 deadline.

[Nicke]

My friend who attended the meeting in Patong told me it was not many people there and they also left after 20 minutes when they heard they had to go to Phuket Town.

[butterflyblonde]

[QUOTE=Swishtz]Review of zoning draft tomorrow

Published on Feb 16, 2004

The current rule allows entertainment venues to remain open till 2 am, depending on their type of services. Nightclubs can operate until 2 am, discotheques until 1 am, and lounges, bars and massage parlours until midnight.

I find your posts very informative and thankyou for that , the only thing i did not understand was some of the cabinets rulings on types of venue.
Nightclubs till 2am and discoteques till 1am , i thought these were one and the same thing ?? I am utterly confused by this .

[Swishtz]

[QUOTE=butterflyblonde]

Review of zoning draft tomorrow

Published on Feb 16, 2004

The current rule allows entertainment venues to remain open till 2 am, depending on their type of services. Nightclubs can operate until 2 am, discotheques until 1 am, and lounges, bars and massage parlours until midnight.

I find your posts very informative and thankyou for that , the only thing i did not understand was some of the cabinets rulings on types of venue.
Nightclubs till 2am and discoteques till 1am , i thought these were one and the same thing ?? I am utterly confused by this .

Glad you find them useful - well you have stumbled across one of many inconsistencies, Nightclub/Disco & Pub/Bar. I think the Thai words for these are more differential, but I have no clue either how one defined a place when the terms are so vague. This may lead to descriptions being key in keeping a place open. Same as the only hostesses being specified are female, hence you could assume Gay bars are exempt if you follow their words literally !

[stevem]

Just out of interest, I have done a little survey of my own, with friends from around the world. All live in different countries, and most have partaken in the nightlife in SE Asia at some stage. I have previously worked with all these guys, and they are all good players.

Out of 22 surveyed, only 2 had heard about the early closing issue. All responded positively to visiting Thailand even with the early closing times.

So I guess we'll all just have to wait and see where this all takes us.

Steve

[K2]

There should be no confusion over the classification of entertainment venues, it was set out last year by Deputy PM Purachai....

Purachai's night vision:

Entertainment venues with female escorts: 9pm to 2am in designated zones; 9pm to midnight in other areas.


Teahouses with female escorts: 6pm to midnight in all areas.


Massage parlours: 4pm to midnight in designated zones; 6pm to midnight elsewhere.

Karaoke lounges, pubs and discotheques: 6pm to 1am in designated zones; 6pm to midnight elsewhere.


Everything in Patong comes in the last category.....the first category means the 'cafe' bars that are mainly visited by Thai's.

Was talking to friends in Tiger complex and disco and police last night, and from March 1st they will impose 1am blanket closing on all Patong - so now you know and until this starts to hurt financially (tax revenues) probably just have to live with it!

[chucky66]

Just out of interest, I have done a little survey of my own, with friends from around the world. All live in different countries, and most have partaken in the nightlife in SE Asia at some stage. I have previously worked with all these guys, and they are all good players.

Out of 22 surveyed, only 2 had heard about the early closing issue. All responded positively to visiting Thailand even with the early closing times.

So I guess we'll all just have to wait and see where this all takes us.

Steve

Likewise Steve, very few people that I know that are intending on travelling to Thailand this year was aware of the changes. The press in the UK and USA mentioned it once a just before chinese new year but that was all. Many package tour companies still havent adjusted their nightlife guides in the holiday brochures either. Most tourists (esp repeat tourists) go to thailand expecting a liberal, fun, vibrant nightlife and many people will be shocked this year with the limited opening hours. I think that the impact on the tourist industry will be a slow one as information will take a while to filter back to friends and family etc unless there is greater media coverage of the situation. Give things 6 months to a year for the big decreases to appear in farang tourist numbers.

[organic]

This government (rightly) is persuing a better quality tourist - read higher spending - this is GOOD for Thai economy and thus the 60 million Thai's who live here.

Sorry, but I think you're totally wrong here.

1. The higher-spending tourists tend to stay more in high-end places owned by multi-national corporations. It's the lower end of the tourist market that use Thai-owned places. I doubt whether it benefits the Thai treasury too much either, a lot of multi-nationals pay their (zero-rate!) tax in the Cayman Is and such places. Still those Thais that used to have profitable businesses can no doubt go & do menial jobs in those corporates.

2. I used to work for the British Tourist Authority and the attitude there too was that they simply weren't interested in the low-end tourists. Then someone actually bothered to do a survey on backpackers and found astonishingly that they spend just as much as the jetsetter family types, but over a longer period and on quite differents goods & services. Cue abrupt change in policy. Most of the wealthier countries actually now try to pull in the low-end market realising it's value.

3. The low-end tourist is often a student, some of whom will become the next generation of wealthy executives. If Thailand doesn't want their dollars now, perhaps it'll make them less likely to want to spend their bigger dollars here in the future.

[Swishtz]

Sorry, but I think you're totally wrong here.

1. The higher-spending tourists tend to stay more in high-end places owned by multi-national corporations. It's the lower end of the tourist market that use Thai-owned places. I doubt whether it benefits the Thai treasury too much either, a lot of multi-nationals pay their (zero-rate!) tax in the Cayman Is and such places. Still those Thais that used to have profitable businesses can no doubt go & do menial jobs in those corporates.

2. I used to work for the British Tourist Authority and the attitude there too was that they simply weren't interested in the low-end tourists. Then someone actually bothered to do a survey on backpackers and found astonishingly that they spend just as much as the jetsetter family types, but over a longer period and on quite differents goods & services. Cue abrupt change in policy. Most of the wealthier countries actually now try to pull in the low-end market realising it's value.

3. The low-end tourist is often a student, some of whom will become the next generation of wealthy executives. If Thailand doesn't want their dollars now, perhaps it'll make them less likely to want to spend their bigger dollars here in the future.

As has been mentioned on many occasions (!) This campaign by the government is nothing to do with tourists, it is to do with social order upon Thai youth. Ironic as today they have refused to ban mobile phone use in vehicles as it would impact people's freedoms (!) I wonder who owns the largest mobile phone company in Thailand who would lose precious Baht from people not using their phones whilst driving (Ho Hum)

[K2]

Organic - think you have taken the one line a little out of context .... did say 'IF' this results in more revenue for Thai's.... and that is a very big IF!

You point on low-end tourism is valid and I certainly remember those days fondly and indeed did shape future travel plans and recommendations. Still hold the view that this all about true ownership of entertainment venues (as it is so lucrative) and that the social order policy is merely a smokescreen.

Note: ABC and Channel News Asia news carried story on TV, so at least the Aussie's and Singaporean's will be informed now.

[stevem]

Note: ABC and Channel News Asia news carried story on TV, so at least the Aussie's and Singaporean's will be informed now.

And who watches the ABC?? Not too many Aussies that would be interested in nightlife in Thailand thats for sure.

[Swishtz]

I hear from a good source that there may be a twist to all of this still, I dont know anymore than that at the moment, nor do I know how much of a twist there will be, but as soon as I hear anymore I will put it up, hopefully today or tomorrow.
Fingers crossed