Police Crackdown on Patong Bars

[Soupdragon]

Originally Posted by midnightsun1

If you are going to go on strike why not strike something meaningful for whats best for Patong and its tourism. The rest of Thailand seems to be doing just fine with a 1am - 2am closing that I am assuming is there law. Its just being enforced in Patong now. Just has the Visa rules where a few months back. In the future maybe the prostition laws will get enforced. Who knows TIT.

How about striking for these things.

1. Strike and demand reasonable rents so you don't need to charge your customers anywhere from 80-160 baht for a Chang Beer...

2. Strike and demand that the tuk tuks stop charging 300 baht to go around the block and another 200 if u live on hill. Parking in areas that are not designated to park.

3. How about the jet ski operators who jack around the customers for damaging their 15 year old jet ski. for another 10k-20k.

4. The low life touts who are in front of Soi Sea Dragon ripping off customers entering go go bars.

5. Safe passage to cross streets with out getting run over.

6. All the double pricing and fleecing that is making alot of toursits sour on Patong.

Seems to me this would beneifit all those who come to Patong for a holiday. Maybe many would be going home with much better memories of the place. Your business may even pick up more money in the long run with the tourist having more money in their pockets.

All worthy causes but they will put not one baht in Thai pockets so guess what is gonna happen SWA.

[THAICAM]

So much to consider.

First, as I posted before in another discussion that seems to have vanished (about 500 baht drinks) most of the groups mentioned here are all part of the same machine, and while one person may object to touts, another may object to the girls. If Phuket were to enforce all the existing laws, things would be very different from what the situation now is really like. Closing the bars at 2am is just a start. If people really don't want that, then the laws need to be changed.

Second, the problem with jet ski operators isn't with the way they're doing business, but with the lack of information about what's really at stake for visitors. The people I've seen who have been hit with this after an accident never considered the implications of renting a jetski. Visitors just don't think ahead - but why should they, when they're on vacation and just assume that there really is insurance?

Touts - some people find them obnoxious, but they're just doing what they're paid to do. It's their job. If you meet them individually, they're just as nice as anyone else you're likely to meet - but they're doing what they've been paid to do.

Tuk-tuks - ditto. If you don't like the rates, find a different tuk-tuk, walk, or find another way of getting where you're going. Even at their most extravagant prices, say 300 baht, that's about what you pay for a taxi in the western world for a four-minute trip. Negotiate the price ahead of time, or don't complain.

As I see it, there's no need to strike, only to make sure you understand the costs before you do anything. If you act like you don't care, the other person will try to get whatever they can, be it a tout, a bar girl, or anyone else in this wonderful paradise!

[THAICAM]

Before everyone yells at me, let me add that as long as you understand the situation before doing something, there's no problem. If you want to spend 3K for LT, or 300 baht for a tuk-tuk, or 500 for a drink, go for it. If not, just find out the price BEFORE you do something, after which you can go ahead, or change your plans.

Even the 2am bar closing - officially, it's been 2am for many years, right? Don't get upset at the police for enforcing the law - a better solution would be to get the law changed. Methinks there's enough wealthy people in Phuket to make a case for treating Patong differently than other locations.

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by THAICAM

So much to consider.

First, as I posted before in another discussion that seems to have vanished (about 500 baht drinks) most of the groups mentioned here are all part of the same machine, and while one person may object to touts, another may object to the girls. If Phuket were to enforce all the existing laws, things would be very different from what the situation now is really like. Closing the bars at 2am is just a start. If people really don't want that, then the laws need to be changed.

The actual law says 12 am outside of a nightlife area and 1 am inside it.. So the real law still is being broken !!! You want to go home at 12 ??

Secondly the technical law here is largely irrelevant.. Laws are only used when it suits those in power.

Second, the problem with jet ski operators isn't with the way they're doing business, but with the lack of information about what's really at stake for visitors. The people I've seen who have been hit with this after an accident never considered the implications of renting a jetski. Visitors just don't think ahead - but why should they, when they're on vacation and just assume that there really is insurance?

True its partly the fault of the tourist for not understanding they are outside of thier comfort zone and are putting themselves in a position to be ripped off. But the costs of some of these 'repairs' is often far more than the real cost or even the amount the jetski was bought for.. Isnt it normal to expect to pay for damage at the real cost of the damage.

Also the jetski boys will invent damage, use the same ding as many times as they can get away with and threaten and intimidate to back up these scams. Going to the police is usually useless as they side with the scammers, is that fair practice ??

Touts - some people find them obnoxious, but they're just doing what they're paid to do. It's their job. If you meet them individually, they're just as nice as anyone else you're likely to meet - but they're doing what they've been paid to do.

Well if we mean the bunch we discussed before, I dissagree.. I think that particular bunch are an aggressive clique who have an anti farang chip on thier shoulder, they are not a friendly open bunch but another little group of thugs playing the wannabe 'mafia' card. Even local Thais I have chatted with have told me exactly the same thing and expressed thier distaste over them.

Plus they are not really employed to do that, they have just carved a niche where they can scam farangs that dont know thier game purely through ignorance. As its a scam that only hurts farangs no one objects or stops it.

Tuk-tuks - ditto. If you don't like the rates, find a different tuk-tuk, walk, or find another way of getting where you're going. Even at their most extravagant prices, say 300 baht, that's about what you pay for a taxi in the western world for a four-minute trip. Negotiate the price ahead of time, or don't complain.

Please.. Comparing a western salary for a 3rd world job.. That makes any sense at all ?? So tuk tuk drivers have western costs of living do they ?? Western standard of vehicle maintenance, western liability insurances ?? The very fact that a 3rd world service is even similar on price to a 2st world service just shows how much of a joke it is.

Secondly a western system has a meter, its fair, all pay equally depending on distance. The tuk tuk system is another scamming mafia system where they enforce thier little monpoly via threats, intimidation, and bully boy tactics.

Lastly tuktuks will make a price, then when getting near to your destination (if your up a hill like I was) despite clearly agreeing to take me to the top of the hill before leaving) stop and demand another 100 even 200 baht to drive 200m up a hill. Its 4am, you have people with you, are you going to get out ?? They renege on thier previous agreement once you have no other options.

One day Thailand will want to grow up and enter the real developed world and leave these kind of banana republic type scams behind themselves. A world where people all pay equal prices based on equal service, a world where personal responsibility is enforced, etc etc etc.

Thailand has many charms, many things that make it as great place to live.. But those listed above are not part of them IMO.

As I see it, there's no need to strike, only to make sure you understand the costs before you do anything. If you act like you don't care, the other person will try to get whatever they can, be it a tout, a bar girl, or anyone else in this wonderful paradise!

But too many of these are false costs.. The 550 baht drink, the fake (old) damage on a jetski or rental bike, the the additional surcharge that a tuktuk slaps on even tho he agreed to it a second before. These are not fair supply and demand economics its scamming the farangs and its becoming distasteful to many tourists who come. Maybe there will always be more but the word is out, Phuket is not only becoming less cheap, but its also the fact that scammers like this demand money without the service. That take take but dont give attitude turns visitors off more than anything I suspect.

[K2]

Originally Posted by LivinLOS

One day Thailand will want to grow up and enter the real developed world and leave these kind of banana republic type scams behind themselves. A world where people all pay equal prices based on equal service, a world where personal responsibility is enforced, etc etc etc.

Thailand has many charms, many things that make it as great place to live.. But those listed above are not part of them IMO.

Gets post of the month award - sadly that one day is not in the foreseeable future where those that govern perpetuate these practices.

[landofsmiles]

Originally Posted by THAICAM

Touts - some people find them obnoxious, but they're just doing what they're paid to do. It's their job. If you meet them individually, they're just as nice as anyone else you're likely to meet - but they're doing what they've been paid to do.

You make it sound like they are employed and on a salary. They work on commission so make nothing unless they get someone through a door into a gogo...hence their aggressiveness. Most annoying thing is they are spreading like a cancer. There used to be just the group at the end of Seadragon...now you get hit by them the moment you step onto Bangla.

The 500baht thread is still going but the moderators have moved it.

[Dupree00]

Torch the Touts!

[landofsmiles]

A run over Bangla by one of these should do it>>>

[THAICAM]

I dunno. I agree with some of what you said, but not all of it. First of all, I read that the law was 2am in designated areas. Now you're saying it's 12 or 1. Were the other people wrong who posted the later times? Me confused...

Jet Ski operators - of course you're right, and the operators probably charge far more than they should for repairs, but if the people renting them would stop crashing into each other, there wouldn't be any repairs. I've watched the end result of some crashes, and if the goal is to repair the jet ski to like new, the prices might even be reasonable. If you ignore the no insurance signs, and have a wreck, you're in trouble. I don't know if you're right or not, that they're charging way too much. The answer of course is to not rent one, or if you have to do so, be prepared for huge bills if you mess up.

Touts - you walk down Bangla and every so often there's a group trying to hand out flyers, or get you to come into some place for a show or a drink. If you're not interested, they move on to the next person. They might be annoying, but no more so than the annoying people trying to sell you new shirts or suits, or anything else. They're just trying to earn some money, the same as everyone else around them. Maybe the ones you're referring to I just haven't seen, or maybe they ignore me because I just ignore them. There are a few that I got to talk with, and after a few minutes, it seems like they're just people, the same as anyone else. If they're selling tickets, or shows, or suits, or cigarettes, or a ride in a tuk-tuk, is that any different than walking down Soi Erik only to have people at several bars pull you into their bar? (The difference might be something that you want more or less, and someone pulling you into a situation you enjoy might seem better, but they're really doing the same thing.)

Tuk-tuks. Never had that experience. If the agreed on price was a certain amount, and they got to the hill and asked for more, I'd be stubborn enough, or stupid enough, to tell them that they either go the full distance for what was agreed upon, or they get nothing - I'd get out and start walking. On the other hand, if they're asking for too much to begin with, just move on to another one. Paying the inflated rate just justifies it for everyone else who wants to charge more.



By the way, if Patong were to grow up and become more or less just like other places in the developed world, would all of you still be going there? Nothing in life is perfect, but isn't Patong still far better than just about any other place you could be going to?

[Dodger]

Originally Posted by THAICAM

Before everyone yells at me, let me add that as long as you understand the situation before doing something, there's no problem. If you want to spend 3K for LT, or 300 baht for a tuk-tuk, or 500 for a drink, go for it. If not, just find out the price BEFORE you do something, after which you can go ahead, or change your plans.

Even the 2am bar closing - officially, it's been 2am for many years, right? Don't get upset at the police for enforcing the law - a better solution would be to get the law changed. Methinks there's enough wealthy people in Phuket to make a case for treating Patong differently than other locations.

Originally Posted by THAICAM

I dunno. I agree with some of what you said, but not all of it. First of all, I read that the law was 2am in designated areas. Now you're saying it's 12 or 1. Were the other people wrong who posted the later times? Me confused...

Jet Ski operators - of course you're right, and the operators probably charge far more than they should for repairs, but if the people renting them would stop crashing into each other, there wouldn't be any repairs. I've watched the end result of some crashes, and if the goal is to repair the jet ski to like new, the prices might even be reasonable. If you ignore the no insurance signs, and have a wreck, you're in trouble. I don't know if you're right or not, that they're charging way too much. The answer of course is to not rent one, or if you have to do so, be prepared for huge bills if you mess up.

Touts - you walk down Bangla and every so often there's a group trying to hand out flyers, or get you to come into some place for a show or a drink. If you're not interested, they move on to the next person. They might be annoying, but no more so than the annoying people trying to sell you new shirts or suits, or anything else. They're just trying to earn some money, the same as everyone else around them. Maybe the ones you're referring to I just haven't seen, or maybe they ignore me because I just ignore them. There are a few that I got to talk with, and after a few minutes, it seems like they're just people, the same as anyone else. If they're selling tickets, or shows, or suits, or cigarettes, or a ride in a tuk-tuk, is that any different than walking down Soi Erik only to have people at several bars pull you into their bar? (The difference might be something that you want more or less, and someone pulling you into a situation you enjoy might seem better, but they're really doing the same thing.)

Tuk-tuks. Never had that experience. If the agreed on price was a certain amount, and they got to the hill and asked for more, I'd be stubborn enough, or stupid enough, to tell them that they either go the full distance for what was agreed upon, or they get nothing - I'd get out and start walking. On the other hand, if they're asking for too much to begin with, just move on to another one. Paying the inflated rate just justifies it for everyone else who wants to charge more.



By the way, if Patong were to grow up and become more or less just like other places in the developed world, would all of you still be going there? Nothing in life is perfect, but isn't Patong still far better than just about any other place you could be going to?

Thaicam, you are getting very confused and writing very contradictory posts.

Bars the law is 12 undesignated entertainement area's and 1 in entertainment area's, Lil told you, it is fact it is the law.

Jet ski operators are forceable scam artists, not probably or maybe and its not just about peoiple who crash into each other, they try it on with all and sundry, try doing a little search on here and you will get to understand a little better.

Touts are NOT paid and again some contradiction, you always ignore them real easily, then you go on to say you have stopped and chatted to them and they are nice ordinary people. But again you have not experienced their scams so you do not know, well try listening to people who live here or holiday here a lot, they do KNOW and are trying to tell you.

Tuk Tuks, never had that experience, ditto as above

Also in one post you are saying its okay to pay whatever you want and then in the next your saying people should'nt overpay cos it sets a higher rate for everyone else??? so which one do you feel is right today? little contradictory??

My advice, instead of putting your ill informed opinion forward over and over again, by all means post your thoughts initially, then sit back and learn from others who do know. Keep saying 'I don't know' but here's my take on it, is a tad ignorant.

[LivinLOS]

Originally Posted by THAICAM

I dunno. I agree with some of what you said, but not all of it. First of all, I read that the law was 2am in designated areas. Now you're saying it's 12 or 1. Were the other people wrong who posted the later times? Me confused...

Thats the differene between law as enforced and law as on the legal statute books.. Hence claiming something is 'law' in Thailand is pretty ridiculous.. Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, football betting is illegal in Thailand, etc etc etc

Jet Ski operators - of course you're right, and the operators probably charge far more than they should for repairs, but if the people renting them would stop crashing into each other, there wouldn't be any repairs. I've watched the end result of some crashes, and if the goal is to repair the jet ski to like new, the prices might even be reasonable. If you ignore the no insurance signs, and have a wreck, you're in trouble. I don't know if you're right or not, that they're charging way too much. The answer of course is to not rent one, or if you have to do so, be prepared for huge bills if you mess up.

Well lets just say that from what I know of the jetski boys a single ding gets rebilled weekly to anyone that looks liek they can intimidate into taking it.. and some repairs I have known of cost far more then the purchase price that the person bought the jetski for.

As to the shouldnt rent it.. Well thats what I do, however is it to much to expect to not be ripped off, bullied, threatened with beatings and scammed while doing something as simple on holiday as renting a jetski for 20 mins.. If thats what Phuket has come to (and thats your defense, thats just the way it is so live with it) then thats a said comment on how bad it is.

Touts - you walk down Bangla and every so often there's a group trying to hand out flyers, or get you to come into some place for a show or a drink. If you're not interested, they move on to the next person. They might be annoying, but no more so than the annoying people trying to sell you new shirts or suits, or anything else. They're just trying to earn some money, the same as everyone else around them. Maybe the ones you're referring to I just haven't seen, or maybe they ignore me because I just ignore them. There are a few that I got to talk with, and after a few minutes, it seems like they're just people, the same as anyone else. If they're selling tickets, or shows, or suits, or cigarettes, or a ride in a tuk-tuk, is that any different than walking down Soi Erik only to have people at several bars pull you into their bar? (The difference might be something that you want more or less, and someone pulling you into a situation you enjoy might seem better, but they're really doing the same thing.)

No I dont think shoving an x rated close up of a pussy into a married couple or woamns face is the same as selling cigs.. And this group is very quick to step up and act violently should they be told not to do that.

Tuk-tuks. Never had that experience. If the agreed on price was a certain amount, and they got to the hill and asked for more, I'd be stubborn enough, or stupid enough, to tell them that they either go the full distance for what was agreed upon, or they get nothing

Exactly what a mate of mine said.. His stitches have been removed now !!

A MB taxi made like he was going to punch my GF when he charged 80 baht and she said no (80 baht.. for a MB taxi along nanai !!) she came running in the house in tears.. Nice big tough guy with a sub 40 kg girl.

By the way, if Patong were to grow up and become more or less just like other places in the developed world, would all of you still be going there? Nothing in life is perfect, but isn't Patong still far better than just about any other place you could be going to?

Thailand can keep its charms and keep its attraction and still have a fair equitable systems that doesnt involve ripping people off.. A fair reward for a fair service.. Unfortunately the attitude is becoming one of take without giving.

[Geir]

A big thank you to LivinLos and Dodger to take the time to learn THAICAM a few things about whats going on............................I sort of lost all my ability to read or type after his resent posts.........Oh MY God

Geir

[landofsmiles]

Originally Posted by THAICAM

Tuk-tuks. Never had that experience. If the agreed on price was a certain amount, and they got to the hill and asked for more, I'd be stubborn enough, or stupid enough, to tell them that they either go the full distance for what was agreed upon, or they get nothing - I'd get out and start walking.

Next time you're here...try doing that and let us know what happens.

[Flhai]

Originally Posted by landofsmiles

Next time you're here...try doing that and let us know what happens.

I 2nd that! You make things sound so simple ThaiCam.... Just a shame the reality is so far from the rose tinted thailand you describe.

[THAICAM]

If it was universally as bad as you say it is, nobody would ever come back. I wonder if we're all going to the same place.

I don't rent jetskis, but I've seen the crowds gather when someone has a problem, and listened in long enough and often enough to learn that the damage was not only obvious, but fresh. Maybe I haven't seen what you describe, but I don't bother with the jetskis anyway. As to tuk-tuks, I usually go with the motorbike taxis, and have never had a driver change the amount that was originally agreed to. Maybe some of you had a real jerk as a driver. The way things were written above, you'd think this was common practice. About trying to charge very high prices initially, so does everyone else in Patong. Touts, whether they got a salary or work on commission, that's still how they're earning their living. If they're using a picture or a something to try to get people interested, of course they're going to show it to everyone walking by, where there's any chance the person might be interested. Is it really any different between between "shoving an x rated close up of a pussy into a married couple or womans face" and having the girls physically pull you into a bar that you're walking by? Nobody here is complaining about the girls, but that's why people come to Thailand. Maybe the touts are annoying, but they don't actually reach out and grab you.

As to prices, if the driver says 80 baht and you say 40 baht, isn't it foolish to actually get into or onto the taxi until the driver has agreed with your price?

I may or may not be inconsistent here. Of course it's OK to pay whatever you want, as you're the one on holiday, it's your money, and if you want to spend far more than you have to, why not? It's also wrong because it helps raise the prices for everyone else. Is that contradictory? Which do I feel is right? All I can say is what's right for one person might not be right for the next. It's the same thing with opinions. You might think my opinions are ill-informed, as based on your experiences, I'm wrong. This works both ways. In several cases, I think the advice offered here is usually very good, but then I read things every so often that just plain contradict what I actually see when I'm there. If the place was universally as bad as you guys say it is, nobody would be foolish enough to come back for a second visit, let alone a third or fourth, or many many more.

"Thailand can keep its charms and keep its attraction and still have a fair equitable system that doesn't involve ripping people off. A fair reward for a fair service. Unfortunately the attitude is becoming one of take without giving." ---- Probably a very good way to sum everything up, but isn't the truth that many people there are simply trying to charge more for providing less service?

[Asianatic]

Just wonder if the closing time is still enforced this weekend ?
Any update on this ?

Was'nt that the subject of the thread ?

[Dupree00]

Hold that line ThaiCam. I think you're wearin' 'em down.

[Sirgezza]

Originally Posted by Dupree00

Hold that line ThaiCam. I think you're wearin' 'em down.

Bl00dy confused the 'ell out of me

[Hoopy Frood]