Wanna go out and meet some cute boys!

[LivinLOS]

hmm.. I would put it more in the 15 - 20 km's area with a very twisty windy beach Rd.. Few overtaking spots etc..

Also Thai Roads are not like Euro roads.. The deaths per mile are off the scale and everyone after about 10 pm is drunk.. Then add in the fact that (this is personal) I often drink until pass out and I wake up in bed the next day... Plus a sprinkle of CBR / babyblade.. Stir in some monsoon weather.. you have a recipie for disaster..

I personally have had 2 aquantances die (and one badly shatter a leg) in the last 3 years on bikes on Thai Roads.. One time it seems clearly the Thai lorry drivers fault but he was never breathtested and nothing was ever done.. Ambulances dont come fast.. Hospitals are not what we might be used to.. etc etc etc..

I watched a Thai guy go under a pickup and die right in front of my eyes at the end of my road one day.. I (and my GF) nearly got totalled by a speeding minibus while I put my indicator on and moved to the crown of the Rd.. A split second before making the right turn he flew by me on the outside at full pelt, I was probably 0.5 of a second away from being road burger..

[Izzy]

Hrms, sounds like could do a good trade in ex military armored vehicles there. As you say guess just a matter of seeing for myself if could put up with the journeys...not that I go out a lot, but id like the option too without going on a white knuckle ride.

[sxygirl]

I would love to say sooooo many things right now (on your side) but......i am arriving in LOS in 7 days and i do not want to be lynched either and they are already expecting me so i probably couldnt hide too well. pm me if u want

[LivinLOS]

No one will get lynched is they dont take judgemental posts and tones.. Depsite all assurances thats not the case and we gang up on her.. some of Eurogirls posts were VERY judgelmental..

Have we ever ganged up on you H ?? Or AusieButterlfy ?? Etc

[eurogirlinthai]

LivinLos I am still waiting for someone to show me the judgemental posts I allegedly made. The only two that spring to mind is my telling the dad to butt out of is sons sex life, which I would say again and again, and the comment on the LB thread, which I do not think was judgement but rather stating the obvious and doing so for the purpose of pointing out the foolishness of the prejudice on that thread...so please do show me those posts where I am VERY judgemental.

[LivinLOS]

Look lets not rehash this issue over and over.. You seem like an intelligent articulate person but if you can read...

"I am just really disgusted... this one kind of takes the cake... Let me tell you a little something about "educating" your boy... I highly doubt he wants you to be his buddy... your his Dad, act like it... Perhaps you are the one that needs the education?... be his Dad setting better examples...challenging him to be a better person with higher morals... I really cannot believe you are even considering being a peripheral party to this"

...and this it is not judgemental and moralising, when all the guy was asking was suggestions on how to keep his young adult son safe in the nightlife areas while they go one a diving trip in Thailand, then you are not able to percieve your own words as others percieve them, and I dont know what to say.

[eurogirlinthai]

I already mentioned that one in my post above, and no I do not think it is judgemental. No matter how you slice it that specific thread was not about keeping his adult son safe, it was about showing the boy a good time..nod nod wink wink...as I said, my mother acted like a mate not a mother and I know how bad that is...could care less what the bloke does or what the Dad does but damn I would hope someone would have told my Mum to be my Mum and not my mate if she came on a board and wanted that kind of advice. Subsequently the Dad explained himself more and it did not sound like his motives were so seedy, but I will say, I can only accept what he said later on face value as the underlying message still seems clear to me.

That is perhaps judgemental or moralising but in some cases I think you need to be honest and MOST people in this world would have agreed with the inappropriateness of that particular concept of Dad taking his son to Phuket to get laid by prostitutes...I am not moralising the latter, merely saying it should not be a father son activity.

[LivinLOS]

Both my parents acted like friends.. I never called them Mum and Dad even as a kid but always by thier names.. By the time I was 14 they treated me as a complete adult and would leave me for months at a time (during school) to fend for myself, and let me do as I pleased (drugs, sex, hitchhiking off , etc).. Now its easy to relate to them as people not parents..

The way you live or wished you lived does not define the right or wrong way to handle these things, every relationship is different.. i know a couple of expat fathers who have had thier teenage sons come here and live / stay.. Seems to be a bonding experience as far as I can tell and anyway, who am I to judge..

Anyway, you said your still waiting for someone to show you any posts (as though it was purely in the minds of the BM's here) again I have shown you (one of) the reasons why you (as opposed to other females) took flack.. Lets just drop it as it wont be resolvedand quite frankly doesnt matter...

[tintin]

Woaw havent followed this tread for a while...

Are you still arguing about this....

Have a cold beer you 2!

[river]

Originally Posted by dizbusta

LivinLOS is right, Eurogirlie needs to take a good look in the mirror and realise that we aren't just having a go at her for the sake of it, she has to realise that sometimes she should try and understand why people are saying some threads are judgemental and realise that she has overstepped the mark on occasion. Once she manages to do this, then I am sure any anomosity shown will disappear, so really the ball is in her court, so to speak.

Cheers
Diz

Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that that's why so many married men adopt the "Yes Dear" philosophy it makes life alot simpler, trying to understand the female psyche has brought down many a great man.

[eurogirlinthai]

Guys it is not about yes dearing me, I assure you. But thus far only one such post was pointed out to me as judgemental, and I would stand by that post as that is a strong opinion I have that shagging prostitutes should not be a father son activity. Not to mention if the boy did not want to he would also feel some pressure by the mere fact that his dad, his mentor, was encouraging it. What he wants to do on his own, and what dad wants to do, is up to them as individuals. But what if someone came on these boards and wanted to know where to find 14 year olds? Would you all react with non-judgemental posts if that particular thought offended your deepest morals? As said, I do not care what the boys wants to do with his mates, or what dad wants to do, it just should not be a father son activity.

In any event I hope through most of my other posts people have seen I am not some moralistic bitc*, as I am not. And I am all for dropping this issue.

[LivinLOS]

Do you really think its possible for a 19 y/o guy (that was how old the son was wasnt it) to go out in Patong and not be mobbed ?? So if he and his Dad go out its gonna be a reality..

Also you stated

LivinLos I am still waiting for someone to show me the judgemental posts I allegedly made.

Which is annoying as I had already done this, so you were not 'still waiting' you were just ignoreing what you dont want to hear. How you can interpret comments including 'disgusted' and "let me tell you something" etc as not being judgemental or moralising is hard for me to understand.

Anyway my last post on the issue.. You dont seem to hear what I am (in a friendly way) trying to say and point out.

[eurogirlinthai]

LivinLos it is quite funny you bring up that a 19 year old would be mobbed as I used that to explain why young guys may be put off as I know many who were and found the bar girls agressive and, their words not mine, "scary". Yet when I said that I was also attacked on that.

But I have alreadys said that I certainly think it is MY judgement and in that sense that ONE post was judgemental but as I pointed out I think most people on Earth would agree that visiting prostitutes should not be a father son activity. I also asked how most of you would react if some bloke came here asking about how to pull 14 year olds. The reason I used that example is to give another type of example that also has a moral and ethical element as many of you are staunch supporters of the bg scene and not likely to be so objective on this particular post as criticising it may in some way imply there is something wrong with indulging in the services of bg's. While I will reiterate I could care less either way am not bothered by what men I do not know do with their bodies nor what girls do with theirs, I do not think that condoning father/son bonding by visiting ******s is right! Even among some of the posters here when I did finally, the first person to do so, say that, several people agreed and these people themselves visit bgs.

Another poster was met with a bit of disdain when he even brought up age of consent issues, I was actually more liberal on that than many of you here. Every post is a personal judgement when an opinion is involved and this ONE post was certainly mine but to say that I post judgemental posts based on that post and based on the circumstances I responded to is not right.

[eurogirlinthai]

First off dizzbusta you preface your message with how I will not read nor understand your post, I would assert you neither read nor understood my post. You also talk about how I am not able to join in with the "camraderie" of the board. If you mean the camraderie based on enjoying and swapping war stories and advice on the bg scene then you are quite right! As a woman I do not think any woman would be able to join in on that camraderie as I cannot sit and talk about which bar girl I like best, where the best are, which one jumped my **** etc. If I could I would not be a woman, so if you are trying to shape an exclusive club on this board which rules out anyone that is looking for other sorts of nightlife in Phuket then your definition of camraderie goes a long way toward achieving that end.

I would disagree, however judging from the number of pms I get and great conversations I have here in pms as well as adding what I can when appropriate such as discussing the perils of sex in Thailand, which I can relate to, and finding places to stay etc.

I am not going to nor do I want to change your mind, you are entitled to your opinion. At the same time I still think you grossly misunderstand my post on the issue at hand with the Dad/son bg post. You can call me judgemental but a great many people would agree that visiting prossies should not be a father/son endeavor. I again posed the question as to how many of you would react if someone came on here looking for advice on 14 year olds, as I think it is the best example of how many of you would also offer your morality to a situation on a thread. I am not about to sit and say, atta boy, to any parent that enquires as to bringing their son somewhere with the intent of procuring the services of a prostitute, if that makes me contentious, judgemental, and not part of the boards "camraderie" then so be it, but I reckon the vast majority of the world would agree with that stance.

[LivinLOS]

er.... Yes dear

Sorry.. but what else could I say

[poolshark]

what do you expect, coming on to a forum for like minded men, that enjoy all the things you seem to hate about the bar scene.

90% of this forum are wishing that they could be living or working or retired there, and you ask "where you can go to avoid all these bg's"

TRY IRELAND ,it is because of people like you that i go to thailand to avoid.

[Gildas]

"...BG's and prossies(I see no difference BTW)"

I am trying to get understand how anyone who has spent time in Thailand (3 months I seem to recall reading) can still be unaware of the cultural nuances that do indeed distinguish between the western stereotype of prostitution and the situation viz-a-viz bar girls. The distinctions may not be vast or perhaps even obvious to some, but they are there, and be they ever so subtle they are real, and they are significant to many; both Thai and 'farang'.

[eurogirlinthai]

people like me poolshark? You mean women? Because I know few women who would be on this board trying to find out where the best bgs are. I love to have a good time but my defintion does not include sleeping with girls(barring a couple of times) whether for money or not...so I do not get your point!


Gildas I know the "cultural" differences though most of the current bg scene has little to do with Thai culture. I know it is heart-warming to some to try and make a distinction between a streetwalker, call girl, window girl, bar girl as defined by asian standards etc. But in english there is a common denominator and thus a common definition...I am not saying this as a diss on anyone please!!!! But here it is:

Main Entry: 1pros·ti·tute
Pronunciation: 'präs-t&-"tüt, -"tyüt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -tut·ed; -tut·ing
Etymology: Latin prostitutus, past participle of prostituere, from pro- before + statuere to station -- more at PRO-, STATUTE
1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money

[Tarzan]

Honolulu-Jimmy come back. Everything is forgotten.....

[LivinLOS]

1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money
Reply With Quote

And as a great many BG's do not go with ANY guy merely are more likely to go with a guy or are more keen to find a guy then they do not fit..

I know many BG's who wont go with guys of xxxx race or guys over xxxx years old or xxxx fat or anyone that doesnt take thier fancy.. In fact I would think it would be a rare BM that hasnt had a knock back or two over the times if they go chasing the best looking BG's..

Personally I dont care what terminoligy is applied (as long as guys dont go calling girls *****s to thier faces or being derogatory or rude to them) as I dont give a hoot in hell about pigion holeing someone.. You can call the BG's prositutues / wh0res / whatever you want and it will neither bother me or effect my actions.. Just wanted to point out that by the textbook you wish to throw back many if not most would not fit..

[eurogirlinthai]

I think that taking money for sex is prostitution and if you want to start getting into what specific bgs will and won't do, well I do think that this is getting a bit too defensive. The bottom line is that even if you have only a certain type you sell to it is still pretty indiscriminate. I am not knocking it, I have a type and I shag them indiscriminately when I am up for it, but I do not take money. I always joke with my friends I may be a slut but I am not a *****...it is the boundary where money is exchanged that I would become a prostitute I suppose.

[LivinLOS]

Ok but thats not the definition you just posted.. please keep these goalposts somewhere....

In 99% of male female relationships money is exchanged.. does that make marriage prostitution (some cynics would argue it does)..

Say I have a TGF that I see only a couple of times a month.. Sometimes we had sex sometimes we just hang out.. She has a crappy lifestyle and doesnt have money and I do, so sometimes I give her money and sometimes I do not.. Does that make her a prostitute ?? Now would it make a difference if I gave her money on the times I screwed her or not ?? What about if I lend or give her money and dont sleep with her (and I have done this many times) but like her company.. Is she a prostitute for being my companion ?? Is it the sex act that defines it ??

I have a live in GF that needs money for fags / drinks with her mates / general life.. I give her a fixed allowance.. Is she a prostitute ??? Now if that allowane instead of being a few 1000 per month pocket money become 60,000 per month.. Is she a prostitute then ?? So does the amount given define prostitution ?? and if so who is being taken advantage off ??

This is why Thailand and Asia is so very different from 'prostitution' in the west.. The areas get blurred.. The lines are not defined.. Theres too much grey area...

I have met loads of girls in bars and paid the first night but who freely volenteered thier time after that, so was that one night with a prostitute and the rest a normal relationship ?? Or is it sell yourself once and be branded for life ??

[Gildas]

You miss my point; your dictionary definition, which of course is completely correct, reflects a predominantly Judeo-Christian, and overtly moralistic rather than legalistic, view of prostitution. Taken outside of that moral framework (and I must be honest and say that I think the Judeo-Christian moral framework has left a lot to be desired over the past few thousand years) simply equating money for sex as 'prostitution', with all the emotional loading that that word carries, is somewhat simplistic. The vast majority of relationships between any two people have an economic dimention; it is merely a question of nature and degree.

You may also wish to consider that some of the board members have long term Thai girl friends (myself included); by calling them all prostitutes you are less than likely to endear yourself to those other members, irrespective of whether or not you believe the term to be correctly used.

[eurogirlinthai]

I think it is reasonable to define prostitute as a girl who takes money for sex. I agree many can argue that what I would call opportunists, are also prostitutes but I see a clear distinction because the opportunist is more discriminate which is why I think the definition of indiscriminate is fitting for prostitution and would argue that you were just splitting hairs when you challenged that. In poor countries the lines are always more blurred and I know a guy who came back to Sweden believing he met the women of his dreams, she had fed him some complete BS story about being a virgin and he was the one, this after a week, amazing she waited 27 years before that. Anyway, she had him sending her money etc. I would not call her a prostitute but rather a con-artist. There are also girls who, if you could read their hearts, are not in love with the men they marry but do it to get a better life, I would call them opportunists. In the latter situations my sympathy is with the men 110% I would hate to wake up one day and realise someone was with me for any reason other than love.

In your last example, where the girl took pay the first night but th