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#176
11-04-2005, 16:07
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Eurogirl Im afraid you know nothing about me.
I pretty sure you are getting no attention whatsoever in Bangkok and it's really screwing you up and making you twisted. As I said before go back to farangland these guys dont know about LOS, it really is your only chance Dont fight against it just accept it, I doubt the world over you have a clue what guys are looking for in a woman I will pm the board members and get a collection tin at my bar for a whip round, for a one way ticked back to your home country If you dont want to go and try and tough it out, maybe we could start a dating agency for you on this board. Just upload a photo and your profile, okay........ Will be intersting to see the level of interest you get Im really trying to help you here and put you out of your misery so please dont be angry my best wishes G 
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#178
11-04-2005, 18:01
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please get that collection geespot and use it to get laid! I have no problems in Bangkok nor do I suspect I will in Phuket, so keep dreaming.
Mike, I was a stripper for about 9 months did it because it was easy money stopped because I had a bf who hated it and I got a 9-5 job anyway that I was pleased with. Liam, your opinions will be devalued but nevertheless you are spot on!
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#179
11-04-2005, 18:16
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#181
11-04-2005, 19:52
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Liam, You can understand if you take a look at what is really being said, I don't believe most men would turn away a shag from a farang girl, but what we are really saying is that we wouldn't want to waiste the time and energy getting one into bed as for relationships...forget about it. Most of us make these statements and the majority of the statments come from those of us who've been there done that and would rather say no thanks to all the bullshlt. Why would we ever bother with a westerner, for what purpose would this serve? So would you enjoy a few years of being told what to do and when to do it? How about dealing with a western womans views of money? Does any of that sound attractive? So I ask this question, how many western women have you lived with? For how long was your longest relationship? There is a huge difference between being with a thai woman and a western woman, why? Because they have been given the values that western women once had, that it is ok to serve a man, that there is pride from keeping a happy home their ideals are if you keep the man happy you will find happiness for yourself, the man is the head of the family and is to be shown the respect that is due him. They do not need to voice there opinion every second of the day, having the ability to keep there mouth shut. They have the advantage of knowing how to let a man be a man and they do so without the constant *****ing session that the majority of western women dish out. Now this is not to say that they do not have there way of getting what they want, nor does this mean that every relationship is a piece of cake...it just means that a great many of us would not give a western woman a second thought. Plain and simple if you know what its like to be treated like a king, then I serious doupt it came from a westerner woman...Sure there are exceptions...just like people win the lottery...it is the exception not the rule. So I have no problem making the statment that I would never be with another western woman...EVER. For the record I have never been divorce, so I am not bitter...I am simply experienced.
__________________
J.K. Livin  Heywood
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#182
11-04-2005, 23:54
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[quote=Heywood]
Why would we ever bother with a westerner, for what purpose would this serve? to be treated as an equal i suppose, in thailand the girls treat you very well but they dont treat you as an equal they treat you as a superior. to me this is unnerving sometimes and puts me off. i would rather have a girl who thinks of herself as equal to me rather than me as her boss. it all comes down to choice in the end of the day but reading some of the posts it sounds like some people prefer women to act like slaves and not respected human beings.
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#183
11-04-2005, 23:57
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[quote=liam]
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You take care of them (food, money,clothes) and they take care of you (coóking, clean,laundry) Whats your experience? Ever lived with a TG?
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#184
12-04-2005, 01:02
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no i havent, this is just from spending time over there and my own observations. you think its just that black and white you buy clothes and food and she cooks and cleans for you.
you have said it yourself they are doing what they have been brought up to do and that is put the man first. they are like what western women were a houndred years ago and basically serve the man. its been said on this forum :- they know when to shut their mouths and let the man be a man. personally as i said i would rather be thought of as an equal and not superior Last edited by liam : 12-04-2005 at 01:05.
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#185
12-04-2005, 02:04
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And i dont think it is all black and white. Thats your assumption and is not what i say. I dont know why you think TG`s are "slaves" that just do as the man says. I suggest you find things out yourself instead of "think" you know how it works...
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#186
12-04-2005, 04:37
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No Such Thing As 50/50 in M/F Relationships
[quote=liam]
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In the traditional way in LOS, when two people meet they greet each other with a wai(bow). The proper procedure is that the "inferior" person wais the 'superior" person first. Then, in turn, the superior person wais the inferior person. Inferior and superor do on mean that one person is better than the other. One person has a higher status than the other. That is all it means. The words inferior and superior as used here are not meant to connote what we think of as inferior or superiority, but just who is more deemed as higher up on the social ladder. The inferior person shows his respect for the inferior person and the superior person then shows his repspect for the inferior person. Wai-ing is a show of mutual respect. This is the Thai way. You may know that in LOS, there aren't even words for brother or for sister, but the words are younger bother, older brother, youinger sister, older sister. Even for aunts and uncles, the words for aunt or uncle actually indicate uncle who is older brother of my mother/father or younger, and so on. This is because one's place in the social order is very core to the Thai way of life. Every time you address someone in Thai, unless it is your buddy/GF, you are supposed to put the word khap or ka at the end of the sentence, which indicates that you are being polite to the person you are addressing. Politeness is at the heart of Thai society, and central to Thai thought. Establishing the social order makes for a more orderly society in that way of thinking and living. Everyone knows their place. Conflict is avoided. Anxiety is reduced. Life is more simple, which makes it easier for everyone. HUMILITY is still a virtue in Thai society, although Western ideas are eroding it , especially among BGs and those that have close contact with Westerners on a daily basis. In Western society, humility is no longer looked upon as a virtue, and is deemed to be a weakness, closer to a vice than a virtue. Our Darwinian mode of thought says that the strong will survive, and the humble are seen as people who are weak and easily taken advantage of. So if a woman chooses to humbly serve her husband, then their is nothing wrong with that. If she chooses to honor him by regarding him as having a higher status in the social order than her, there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make her less of a person. It does not mean that she does not have equal worth as a person to her husband or anybody else. It may mean that she is even more worthy, because she has the strength and power to humble herself. It may mean that she is even more worthy because by doing so she creates a stronger and more stable family structure. It may mean that she is a giving person and not a selfish person. Has it come to where we fault a person for having a giving nature, fault them for not being as selfish as most people seem to be these days. IMHO, 50/50 relationships, as espoused in current politically correct Western thought, are inherently unstable. Every time two people have different a opinion on how to deal with an situation which affects the realtionship, there is the potential for conflict, and there usually is conflict, be it open or unspoken(passive/aggressive). And there is no mechanism in place for dealing with conflict, and for settling issues being contested. A 50/50 realtionship is like a ship with two captains. When a storm approaches, if one captain says turn to the starboard side, and the other says to turn to the port side, then which way does the man in charge of the rudder go. The two captains have to have a conference and negotiate the matter, and often which ever one doesn't get his way will start to build resentment towards the one that does. The simple solution is that one captain is given a higher rank than the other. Then you don't have constant turmoil, but rather a more stable situation and a safer ship. In the family, the fact that a woman can recognize the value in creating a stronger, more stable unit by allowing the man a higher rank than her, shows her strength and good sense, not weakness. And if you, Liam, want to concede the helm in your future relationships to a woman, then that is fine and dandy, too. For my part, I will be wearing the pants in any relationship I enter into. I will be the captain of my destiny. I've been the 50/50 route; it rarely works, not for the long run. In most, if not all, successful farang relationships, one of the partners holds the balance of power. The relationship is only 50/50 in a nominal way. The 50/50 designation is a pretense, a facade, a hoax. It is a face-saving device for the one who has less than 50% of the power. In the vast majority of successful modern Western relationships, I submit to you, the fact is that the woman bears a greater than 50% share of the power, and the 50/50 facade justs helps the man feel that he is not a wimp, and saves him from being subject to the ridicule of his macho peers. Think about it. I dare you to tell me that I am not right. Men want sex. It is a big part of the reason they marry. Especially nowadays with AIDS. Women don't do all the cooking and cleaning as they once did. And if you are not getting that service, what does it leave? Sex and companionship, primarily. That is why men enter into relationships. Women are not as horny as men because they don't have testicles and don't produce as much testosterone, which is the horniness hormone. Therefore, many women can and do control men and get their way by trading sex for power in the relationship. Rarely is this done on a quid pro quo basis, it is usually more sublte, i.e., wanting to keep the wife in a "good mood." At one time, the sex power factor was more than compensated for by the power of the purse(or wallet, if you like), but that advantage has been greatly diminished by women in the workplace and by divorce laws favorable to women. That is the way it is. Admit it. A first mate is no less worthy a man than the captain on a ship. In many cases, I am sure the shipmates could tell you that the first mate is a better man. But that doesn't change the fact that the captain gives the orders. The first mate takes the orders and he would be less of a man if he didn't. So, in a marriage or relationship, where the husband is the "superior", i.e., has more than 50% of the decision-making power, the wife may in reality be the better person. But, if for the good of the relationship, she lets the husband control the balance of power, then that shows her strength, character, discipline, and dare I say it, her humility. If she is OK with this arangement and agrees to it, then she is more of a woman for it, and worthy of the highest respect from her husband and from society. BTW, Liam ,if you have children, will you treat them as equals before they are adults, when they are little. I hope, for their sake, you won't. And if you don't treat them as equals, then does that mean that they are not respected human beings. Your logic is "swiss cheese" logic, full of holes! JayBee 
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown. 
Last edited by JayBee : 12-04-2005 at 04:51.
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#187
12-04-2005, 04:58
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[quote=JayBee]
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#188
12-04-2005, 05:57
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jaybee always the ANAList. we were taliking about relationships so i presume we were talking about adults. where you got children from i dont know. reading that post (and it took a few attempts) your basically saying they have been brought up in a culture where someone in any relationship has to be inferior and humility (which i would call submissive traits) in a woman are valued. no arguaments here thats exactly what i said.
i did say equals and just because i would rather treat someone as such why do you think that automatically the woman would control the relationship. i think someone has some serious confidence issues when it comes to western women.
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#189
12-04-2005, 06:04
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__________________
Always play to win!
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#190
12-04-2005, 06:31
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Farang Kwai in Bangkok
I had a very pleasant evening in Radio City in Bangkok courtesy of ETV. I could not help noticing that there were half a dozen English girls sitting in the front trying to get attention and not succeeding. In the end they got up on stage and joined in with the band. They all left alone.
It must be disheartening to go out on the pull in BKK if you are a English girl. They look so big and clumsy compared to the Thai Girls and they know it. Flame me if you want. Mac
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#191
12-04-2005, 08:42
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Humility Is a Virtue, Sadly Lacking In Western Society
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Liam, you are young and have much to learn about women and life. I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors in that regard. You will need it. As for now, I wish to point out the following: 1)When one turns to name calling in a debate or argument, it demonstrates frustration, lack of control, and an inability to clearly comprehend and deal with the issues. (the namecalling you used was ANAList - very clever mispelling BTW, you obviously are possessed of a razor-sharp wit  ).2) You call humility a submissive trait, which proves the point I was making. HUMILITY IS A VIRTUE and it is only those blinded by a distorted cultural perspective who would even suggest otherwise. There is nothing submissive about humility. Jesus Christ was a humble man. St. Francis of Assissi was a humble man. Ghandi was humble. Mother Theresa was humble. Many great men and leaders were known for their humility. Take the time to talk to a monk when you are in LOS and ask him about humility. Maybe you will learn something. Incidentally, monks are extremely humble, and they are at the pinnacle of the social order in LOS. Every single Thai Buddhist must wai first when he meets a monk. Even the king and the queen must wai the lowliest monk. So is humility a submissive trait? No. In LOS, the most superior people, the monks, are the most humble, and that is as it should be. 3) I suggest you try to learn about Thai culture. There again, you are misinformed and have a very distorted perspective. Humility is valued in men and in women. If we could all be more humble, what a better world we would live in. It seems as if you don't even understand the meaning of the word "humility," if you think it is an inferior trait. 4) I only used the words inferior/superior because you used them, and I can't think oa better words, since if you use higher/lower, it brings the same connotations as superior/inferior. In Thai culture some people have higher status then others. That doesn't make them superior. An older brother has a higher status relative to his younger brother. That doesn't mean that his younger brother is in any way inferior to him. I'm sorry that you can't understand the rather simple logic of the points I made in my previous post. I will take that to mean that you are just stubborn and resistant to new ideas which you may not be comfortable with, rather than conclude that you lack the intelligence to understand simple logic. JayBee P.S. There is nothing automatic about women controlling relationships. They must make an effort and the man must ultimately allow them and not stand up for himself. Men, however, are weakened by their strong sex drive when dealing with women, spouses, in particular, because if they don't make the wife happy, she won't put out for them. Then they are stuck in the precarious position of ceding power, being celibate, or being an adulterer or philanderer, which the makes them vulnerable to guilt trips and charges of being an immoral, unfit person. It is a very easy game for a wife to play, if she chooses to do so. Many women will choose to do so, because they want to be in control. It is natural for most people to want to be in control. That is why the 50/50 concept is politically correct rubbish. It is also why any woman, or man for that matter, who is willing to voluntarily allow a spouse to be the head of the household and have the power to make decisions for the good of the family is often an demonstration of strength, not weakness. It takes incredible strength, discipline, and commitment to give up power, because that goes against the natural instinct most of us have, which is to want to be in control, to want to have the power. Very few men have that kind of strength. When men lose power in a relationship, it is usually involuntarily, under duress, because the woman has seized the power.  Nothing automatic about that! Women, including Thai women, are no different than anyone else when it comes to feeling the desire to be in control. 
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
Last edited by JayBee : 12-04-2005 at 09:09.
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#192
12-04-2005, 09:23
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Humility
Jesus Christ was a humble man. He demonstrated his humility when he got down on his knees and washed the feet of a lowly woman, some say a *****, Mary Magadalene. Did Jesus Christ show weakness when he performed that act? I think not. I think he showed his strength.
What do you think, Liam? Do you think Jesus Christ was a submissive person? After all, he did submit to a lot of torture and abuse at the hands of the Roman soldiers who crucified him(see M. Gibson's film, "The Passion of the Christ.") Or do you think it was a matter of Jesus HUMBLY accepting his fate, or as he put, accepting the will of his father, to whom he ceded his power. Jesus was undoubtedly a powerful man(see Bible re miracles), some say he is God. He had the power to stop the Romans, but he didn't. Why? He possessed incredible, God-like strength(perhaps because he is God), enough strength to give up his power, and accept his fate with HUMILITY. You didn't see him kicking and screaming and cursing the Romans or protesting his innocence, either. That's HUMILITY. Buddha would have been proud of him! In fact, he probably was proud of him. And they probably had a beer together after it was all over!
__________________
LOS is warm, soft, smooth, and brown.
Last edited by JayBee : 12-04-2005 at 09:30.
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#193
12-04-2005, 09:47
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Loads of nothing being said at this point. I want to address a few things though...firstly, the attacks on Liam are ridiculous. I really hate how so many people here base their opinions on Thailand from a small sample group, in both directions. I also hate the "preaching" about Thai culture. A good example is how people go on and on about how others should learn about Thai culture basing this all on their own experience. It was brought about by Jaybee how the most exalted in Thai society are the humblest of monks, this is true, it is also true that in line with buddhist tradition materialism has no place yet if you look at much of Thai culture that you are basing things on, bg scene for one, materialism is a driving factor. I met a very lovely Thai bloke about 25 who told me how he will likely never marry because he does not earn enough money, pretty sad and not in line with the very principles of Thai culture in many ways.
Then the whole subservience issue came up. Thai women are subservient, but so too are Thai men, that is a part of the culture which is a demure and kind culture. The whole bollocks about western girls being hard up and desperate for attention is unfair and stupid and serves more as payback I suspect from blokes who wouldn't be getting attention in the west at all, came here, and suddenly got attention...albeit often false. I am 1,56, I am hardly a giant towering over thai women, and even if I was, I do not think that would detract from how I look on the outside or inside. I wear heals here to be taller every day and night as I do not like being so short. Admittedly there are many girls who have a hard time here, many farang girls who likely would also have a difficult time in the west as well. Shame how many men have so much sympathy for guys in this position as I have read several times on this board as a defense of the bg scene(the comment for example, isn't it nice that someone who would otherwise be lonely can come here and meet women that give them attention if even for pay etc made by a poster from australia I believe) yet the women are met with disdain if this is the case. To me it wreaks of bitterness on the part of the men writing this negative shite. Personally I have not had a bit of a problem whether farang or Thai men, as I like Thai men I am also quite fortunate to be in Thailand. Certainly the fact that I am short helps, but I know a tall swiss girl who also has had no problems pulling in Thailand. In Liam's defense, it is hardly a misnomer to say that there are differences on many levels between farang and tg's. TG's, and boys, come from a more submissive culture, most men do find that appealing as a trait in women. This is particularly true, as I mentioned before, when a many comes from a culture with domineering women...sweden I use as example. On the other hand, I can also say that I recall sitting in Stockholm at the Thai embassy to get my permits and the number of girls there who spoke no swedish and no english with their "husbands" astounded me. I do not know what someone can base a marriage on, or a relationship for that matter if one is unable to communicate. In Bangkok I went out with a bloke who spoke less english than I do Thai. It did not go past one date as I found it too difficult to mime the whole time and thus disinteresting. Now, YES BOYs I AM HERE!!, my impressions of patong where I was last night with a person I met on this board actually who asked to meet me: It was not offensive in any way. I never thought it would be. I was disgusted, literally sick, from seeing some of the men the girls had to leave with, but I did not ever feel uncomfortable anywhere other than that factor. And if you flame me because of that, oh well, but when I see a girl walking away with a man and know what she has to do and he is old and wrinkly or just nasty looking, my sympathy is with her!(and before you lot attack you damn well know you have the same empathies if you see bloke pull or walk out with a girl that looks a mess) Unlike Pattaya the girls do not seem to be jumping out at any male that walks by, it is seemingly contained in each bar...very good! There were some families, couples, and all sorts of people. I would say the mean age was quite high though, young guys were scarce in comparison to older, confirming what I already thought, the average age being somewhere in the 30's. There were some younger blokes but mainly of the UK/Irish variety...looks wise not in my demographic either. Most of the bar girls were ok looking for TG's but my Thai girl friends are hotter than most of the bgs hands down. Some of the bgs were stunning though but perhaps they all start that way and the lifestyle wears on them. Attention was, as I suspected, not at all a problem for me, so you "attention craving" theorists can try for another theory. I found it interesting, not offensive (except when I had to see some really nasty blokes on their way home with tiny bg's), and a bit of a good time. I still would prefer Phuket Town though I think as I like Thai men and in Pattong do not trust the motives as much as I would in a mostly Thai environment...luckily I have made two Thai Girlfriends already with whom I will go to Phuket Town. Incidentally, for all those who go on and on about how acceptable it all is, my Thai friends who grew up here in Phuket told me how they hated to go to Pattong because they are always worried men will think they are bg's. One girl is, in my opinion, very beautiful and single and wants to meet a farang man...but a cute one as she put it. To this end I will do my best to hook her up. I can certainly see myself pissed in Patong on many a night, but in general I am not usually attracted to touristy places anywhere I go preferring to learn from and mix with locals as much as I can so it would never, regardless of bg scene, have been my first choice venue. I think when I crave western company it may be somewhere I would hang out though as there is such a range of people from the ubiquitous brits, to the more reserved swedes and everything in between. All in all it is not disgusting just a different scene.
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