In dire need of some sound advise...

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by eurogirlinthai

Jaybee it was not meant to be patronising, taking her to Denmark was my solution because of ante-natal care, nothing else, I have lived in Denmark and frankly would rather live in SE Asia any day of the week. But as I cannot imagine him moving here in the middle of his studies I think the father and mother should embark on this together and even if after birth she leaves with child I do think she will get better care in a country that has guaranteed healthcare. Infant mortality rate in Laos is relatively high, in Denmark it is very low.

Eurogirl, I didn't mean to say that your intent was to be patronizing. As I said, I think that your heart is in the right place, and you are trying to give what you genuinely see as the best advice to the man. But the effect of what you say comes off as patronizing, because appears to be(or is tantamount to) a statement that Denmark is a better place to raise a child than Laos. And while that may be a valid statement when referring to infant mortality rates, ante-natal care is only one part of a much larger picture. I suspect that there are good doctors and good hospitals in Laos. Many of the people there may not have access to them, and that could account, at least in part, for infant mortality rates.

I see no reason to believe that the parents being together is the best option. As another poster stated, the radical change in physical, social and family climate for a TG moving to Denmark, especially with all the added stress of pregnancy, could be very hard on a relationship and it could crack under all that pressure. A better option might be if he could take off for a few weeks or a month to be there for the birth of the child.

The desires of the mother, her ability to make sudden adjustments during pregnancy(if she were to go to Denmark to have the baby), adaptation to a new climate, etc., are all factors to be considered. I would be very surprised if the woman was amenable to leaving her home and the warm emotional climate of family and friends, not to mention the warm weather climate.

To suggest that it is up to the man to decide where his child lives, or to assume that the woman would want to move to Denmark seems to be espousing a male chauvinistic viewpoint.

So, all I am saying is that, in fact, it is ultimately the woman's choice to decide where she and her child live, not the man's, although she may wish to consider his desires in reaching her decision. He may be able to apply financial pressure if he wanted the child to be in Denmark, but that would be a questionable tactic, at best. In this case, he does not appear to want that, because it would be a more comfortable situation for his family and probably for her family, as well, if she remained in Laos. So, all the factors need to be considered, not just welfare laws and infant mortality rates. It is not always best to give statistics top priority in making critical decisions for oneself and one's loved ones. There are so many other considerations.

Of course, this is only my opinion. I just happen to disagree with you on this point.

JayBee

[river]

There are some big descisions ahead for both parties this is a very serious matter you have some good advice offered in this thread, personally I agree with Livinlos if you were my son I would give you the same advice.

Talk to your parents immediately and then take it from there good luck and I hope it works out.

[onlocation62]

Ampoliros,
You have some great advice on the forum here. All different kinds of advice and different opinions. Really good to see the forum being used in such a positive way.
Now is the time for you to do some sould searching and make some serious decisions.
I wish you the best.
Whatever the decision... IT WILL BE THE RIGHT ONE

[eurogirlinthai]

Jaybee nothing wrong with disagreeing. I do see your points, but I do worry mainly for the unborn child in this case not the father nor the mother, they are adults, so I hope, but the childs welfare is my main concern. That said, on a personal note, I have lived in Denmark and would not want to do it again. I think Scandinavia is one of the hardest places for a foreigner to adjust to based on moving around quite a bit in my own life and the fact that I am only half swedish and myself found scandinavia to be difficult to live in compared to southern Europe or even UK where there is more diversity of culture.

In the end it is the decision of these two where and how they raise their child, I just hope that the childs interest is in the forefront of those decisions. Bringing a life into the world is the most awesome responsibility anyone can take on.

[Tarzan]

Originally Posted by eurogirlinthai

I think Scandinavia is one of the hardest places for a foreigner to adjust to based on moving around quite a bit in my own life and the fact that I am only half swedish and myself found scandinavia to be difficult to live in compared to southern Europe or even UK where there is more diversity of culture.

It depends on your own attitude also.... If you treat people like you have been doing here, i understand why you have problems.

[eurogirlinthai]

Yes Tarzan, of course, why did I not think of that. If you have a good attitude the draconian taxation will suddenly fall to normal levels, monopolies that are run by the state will be broken up and allow for free trade like the rest of the world, shopping centers and international chains will suddenly pop up all over the place, little old blond ladies who tell friends adopted by swedish parents that know no other life will stop making racist comments toward them, people will suddenly be less judgemental and conformist, prices will fall into line with the rest of the world and you won't be made to feel like a criminal when you buy alcohol from the STATE store, pluralism will be acceptable and the failure of the welfare state will be confessed and changed, the moral superiority attitudes excercised by politicians and lay people alike will cease to be and sweden will realise like every other country it too is fallable and not always right, and feminazis that rule the press and political system will suddenly disappear. Wow, attitude can do a lot!

Now back on topic Tarzan, since everyone else on this thread seemed to stay there!

[tintin]

I am with Tarzan here....

Very simple critisism.......

First not every country is perfect...But Scandanavia is a role - model for many things!

Just saw a documentary last week. Yes things are expensive, but I did see much more nature then in Belgium...... Also people earn much more, so it is possible to pay for many things too! And am I mistaken, do you not get a very good social security.....?

When in Europe, Scandinavia we see Thailand we think that it is great! Just as Thai people dream to go to "Farang country", where everybody is rich have a car and a beautiful home. For us Thailand is cheap, but you must have a damn good position to earn money there to pay what we got over here! And if you are Thai, the buffolo dies, worse you got injured yourself, no operation is possible if you don't got the tunes to pay the hospital-bills!

Many limbs have been remove from Thai bodies, because there was no money to treat the injured part! But hey, we with our money earned in our country, everything is soooo cheap in Los.

As you know I had a Thai restaurant in Antwerp, so I moved around Thais who lived in a foreign country. Now I have to be honnest on this, there iS a small Thai community in Antwerp, so people can have a bit interaction.

Generally all the Thais I met were doing fine. Of course a woman married to a "bad farang", would have more trouble then being married to a good one!
They keep the same attitude sometimes as in Thailand. "Live the day". That IS sometimes difficult when you are employing them, because they have no worries to loose their job!

It is indeed more difficult in towns with no other Thai people, especially when the weather is bad! But then again it also depends on the partner what he is willing to do to make feel the Thai person better!

If I would have plans to marry a Thai girl, I would see where I wanted to live too. I would have liked the adventure to go to Thailand, but if you have no financial meanings to start with, maybe this is even more difficult as at home...

And again EG, when you get a bit critisized here, just be relax and answer a humouristic way! You cannot demand that all this lads agree with you!

[Gildas]

EG - the Denmark rant is a tad 'off topic'. This is phuket-info.com not denmark-info.com.

[eurogirlinthai]

Tintin, I am sure you did see a documentary about the fabulous healthcare and ss system...did they mention the founder of swedish social medicine died of cancer and advised his family and everyone to get private insurance because the system doesn't work? The myth of scandinavians earning more is another one the propoganda machine churns out so successfully. There is beautiful nature in Sweden, and many nice things, but the welfare state is a failure and the only reason it still exists is because of two main groups that vote religiously socialist and allow our paternalistic leaders to play big brother. The reality is that sweden has europe's highets taxes and the consumer return is not all that good, nothing compared to France for example. Add to that 25% VAT on all products, deductibles for both medical care and medicine, and the ladder tax system which aims to punish high earners(robin hood taxation) and you then have sweden! I am always amazed at how good a job the government does in convincing the world, most of which have never been to sweden, of what a utopia it is...it isn't.

Sorry for going off topic on this one!

[tintin]

I am staying a bit "off topic" for a moment!

I believe you egt, but wich country has it perfect! I lived in Belgium and now in France. I thought that Belgian taxes were way to high, they are btw.

In France, prices of goods are much higher, taxes are higher and incomes much lower then in Belgium. I have became a poorer man to come here and as a foreigner I made such a good investements that I am starting to get in trouble now....

But, you can discuss so much as you want wich system is the best! Although I lost a lot money coming here, I did not forget why I chose to come here and not Thailand, or stay in Belgium (so this is not so off topic after all!).

I am away of the traffic-jams, pollution (my youngest daughter had a lot of problem from the dirt of the industry regarding her longs), the greyness of Belgium/bad weather.

A lot of Westernes, the one with enough brains or money, have freedom to make choises, like nobody in the world!

Every person should decide where he think he can find his "happyness" .

Living in Thailand as a Thai is nice because they got a very good attitude. But if something serious happens to you, I think you are well more protected over here! And as you are living in Thailand right now, you should be the first to know that LOCALS live wit an average of 4.000 Bath /month. And NO social security!

[Ampoliros]

Moving on. At present I´m thinking a lot how her parents will react, what they will say, do and think - in short : the societal ramifications.
Now, I´ve read a lot about Luk Kreung babies in Thailand the last few days, there seems to be a certain ambivalence towards them. On the one hand they are seen as very handsome and are employed a lot in the entertainment sector (Tata Young). On the other hand, though, there are many prejudices towards them and their mothers who by some are seen as "loose" women. Racism, too, apparently is a factor here. Some thai people regard these children as "impure", as a threat to "their" race. This of course is complete nonsense but I can´t help wondering how the people in Laos will react, in a country which has (until now) had only a very few number of Fallang-babies. What do you think?
I´ve met my girlfriends parents before, by the way, and my impression was that they were very warm and friendly albeit seriously conservative / traditional.
This, too, worries me, as they may regard it as a shame that their unmarried daughter is awaiting a child by a fallang...hmmm.

My teeruk claims to be sure that it´s going to be a girl. I´m not so sure but I´ve begun thinking about a name anyway (Seemingly it´s the duty of the father to name the child in Laos, or so she told me...)

That´s all for now - Chock Di,

Ampoliros

[StGeorge]

My baby was going to be a girl too...

I understand that there may be some rascism towards the half caste child. Many years ago in UK there was bad feeling towards white women that slept with black men. It is not so bad now, but still some resentment. I think though, this is something you have to come to terms with and deal with. At the end of the day dare you giong to let other peoples attitudes dictate you own life? I think not.

I still think the best place for your girlfreind to have your baby is within the security and loving support of her own family. You may have beeter hospitals in Denmark, but she will feel very lonlely there, with only you and no-one else.

Good luck my mate, I wish you all the best.

My girl was going to be called Lucy, or Chloe...

[tintin]

Ampo I think you should stop to wonder about the "parents" issue so much! For yours, just tell them. Their first reaction could be bad, so you ARE warned! But it would not stay bad if they see you love the girl and with the time she loves you! You cannot have everything sorted out in a week!

It looks like you love this gils, so focus on that! Try to see how to organise things for your future. And don't want to have everything works out immeaditely!

Your life will always be "bumpy". Things you worry about, will be no issue in the future..... But certainly do not take a decission because of what other people might think, but what you want for yourself, the girl and the baby.....

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by tintin

Your life will always be "bumpy". Things you worry about, will be no issue in the future..... But certainly do not take a decission because of what other people might think, but what you want for yourself, the girl and the baby.....

Well said, very good advice...

Other peoples prejudices should hold no place in your heart. I am sure if you look inside yourself you will know what you want. Good luck lad!

[StGeorge]

Ampo:

If you want to check we havent actually been dating the same girl, I put a picture of her, and one of me and her on the forums Nightlife - sexy lady photo.

Imagine if it's the same girl,

[LivinLOS]

I think you have detected some of the issues a Luk Krueng child or adult will have now but would also hope as multi culturalism creeps in that more tolerance of different races is more the norm.. Think that any late teen now was born in the late 80's.. How different was the country then and how rare were the farangs that were the fathers ??

though seeing this

I think I will choose a compromise of sorts. I will maintain her and the baby financially while I finish my studies and then I´ll move to Los. Simple as that. I think I will be able to adapt pretty easily.....because I like the Los very much and am kind of a tolerant character.

worries me.. what do you intend to do for money.. Working in Thailand is not easy, the only well paying gigs are being transfered in by a multinational even skilled work in BKK is usually not high paid.. With no experience in the workplace and no startup capital (I am assuming) how are you intending to 'come to LOS and adapt' life here is cheap but you will still need a min of about 1k Euro's a month.. Then you need to consider saving for your future, your childs education, medical coverage, etc etc.. I see people come here with a few million baht thinking they are going to retire.. Couple of years later its gone..

Not trying to scare you but providing for a family will be hard enough... Providing for one and getting a job to pay that in Thailand (and have what we consider an acceptable standard of living) is very very tough for a farang..

[Heywood]

I too have been where you are, actually I have been here 2 times in my life, I was younger than yourself, I was 21 or so when my first was born we were not married until 1 year after. our second child was born 6 years later.

I have for the past 7+ years raised the two children by myself due to the mothers death, the other woman aborted the child so I have a pretty good idea of what this is like and what the meaning of this can be.

You are sitting at a crossroad in life that will determain a great deal as to what becomes of you, what you will or will not be able to acomplish so choose wisely. As with most crossroads in life, make a choice but be sure it is one that you can live with, each of us has choices that must be made without the convience of knowing the outcome, it is a part of life.

Sorry but life has its ugly moments, at times I wonder how I got through some of it alive, over the years I have come full circle and as of right now feel like I have just started to live my life in the way that I want...but then no one ever told me it was going to be easy.

Best of luck to you, whatever you choose I hope that you will find peace with the decsion that you make.

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by eurogirlinthai

Jaybee nothing wrong with disagreeing. I do see your points, but I do worry mainly for the unborn child in this case not the father nor the mother, they are adults, so I hope, but the childs welfare is my main concern. That said, on a personal note, I have lived in Denmark and would not want to do it again. I think Scandinavia is one of the hardest places for a foreigner to adjust to based on moving around quite a bit in my own life and the fact that I am only half swedish and myself found scandinavia to be difficult to live in compared to southern Europe or even UK where there is more diversity of culture.

In the end it is the decision of these two where and how they raise their child, I just hope that the childs interest is in the forefront of those decisions. Bringing a life into the world is the most awesome responsibility anyone can take on.

I see your point. Point well taken. And, of course, the child's welfare must always be the first consideration(but not the only consideration)!

[The Mook]

this is one heavy thread

[dawsey]

Originally Posted by eurogirlinthai

Now back on topic Tarzan, since everyone else on this thread seemed to stay there!

[QUOTE=eurogirlinthai] Sorry for going off topic on this one![QUOTE]


So its OK for you to go off topic but not Tarzan
Care to explain why you can but he can't??

[hugos]

[QUOTE=Ampoliros]
I can´t help wondering how the people in Laos will react, in a country which has (until now) had only a very few number of Fallang-babies. What do you think?
[/QUOTE

One thing is for sure: Everyone will love this baby. My daughter is a 50/50 thai/europe and the thai people love these children. There will always be some jealous people around.... (where ever you stay).

As Tintin said: Don`t think too much about what the parents will say! You have to know what you want!

Chok dee!

Hugo

[t0rn]

Originally Posted by Ampoliros

Moving on. At present I´m thinking a lot how her parents will react, what they will say, do and think - in short : the societal ramifications.
Ampoliros

You may get some advice on that on these Laotian forums (though many who frequent them are expat/born abroad):
http://www.laotian.info/vientiane/index.php
http://www.laohub.com/modules.php?name=Forums

Whatever you decide please don't abandon her - the very minimum you should consider is establishing the child is yours, then offering (generous) financial support.

Also, having see the standard of hospitals in Lao, BKK might be a better bet for pre/post natal care.

All the best anyway!

[tintin]

[QUOTE=hugos]

Originally Posted by Ampoliros

I can´t help wondering how the people in Laos will react, in a country which has (until now) had only a very few number of Fallang-babies. What do you think?
[/QUOTE

One thing is for sure: Everyone will love this baby. My daughter is a 50/50 thai/europe and the thai people love these children. There will always be some jealous people around.... (where ever you stay).

As Tintin said: Don`t think too much about what the parents will say! You have to know what you want!

Chok dee!

Hugo

Hey Hugos, you told me you were married, but did not tell me it was a Thai girl.....

Without critisizing you, my good friend, I don't understand that you are still up for new TG's if you allready got one at home!

But some people say same-same about me, even if she is not Thai.....

[eurogirlinthai]

My two cents, look kreung are very attractive children and adults and I see no reason anyone should have anything to say about it. We are all human and if people are that narrow-minded fuc* them! The first guy I ever loved was half chinese and I have been with other guys who are half asian and I for one think they are very attractive and have a huge benefit of having been brought up with two cultures and if lucky enough, languages as well. Don't focus on what the world might or might not think, give your child all the love and support in the world and make them feel loved through and through and foster security and self-worth and they will have no problems in this world no matter what other people think.

[hugos]

[QUOTE=tintin]

Originally Posted by hugos

Hey Hugos, you told me you were married, but did not tell me it was a Thai girl.....

Without critisizing you, my good friend, I don't understand that you are still up for new TG's if you allready got one at home!

But some people say same-same about me, even if she is not Thai.....

Sry Tintin, i will not discuss my relationship here on the board. That`s my private thing. Think you`ll understand this.

Hugo

[tintin]

No problem Hugos, it is just that you brought up your Thai daughter, otherwise I would not have mentioned it!

Not everybody can be an open book like me!