How About Those Warriors?

[JayBee]

Warriors 97, Mavericks 85 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was that the most exciting game you have seen this year or what?!!!

[seafox]

Who?

You aren't one of those jump on the bandwago kind of guys, are you JB?

[Bsmoov]

So JB, do you think the Warriors have a shot at winning the series?

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Bsmoov

So JB, do you think the Warriors have a shot at winning the series?

although they did have the mav's # this season
they wont win the series

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by seafox

Who?

You aren't one of those jump on the bandwago kind of guys, are you JB?

Been a die-hard Warriors fan for 20 years, and it sure hasn't been easy. Went into this season with great hopes, based on the team's big turnaround perfomance last year in the latter part of the season after trading for Baron Davis. But he's injury-prone, always pulling his hamstring, and had a bad knee this year, as well.

Honestly, I had given up on them this winter. They got off to a real good start the first 20 games or so, then they tanked when Baron's knee acted up. It seemed like they had given up themselves when they dumped Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy, although it was clear that Murphy had to go, and Dunleavy never lived up to his "3rd pick in the draft" potential. Al Harrington had to be an improvement over Murphy, but I didn't know much about Stephen Jackson, except he had the troublemaker label on him, and wasn't getting much playing time in Indiana. I figured they wanted Harrington, wanted to get rid of Murphy, and were willing to throw in Dunleavy to accomplish that and unload some big contracts, since although Dunleavy is a talented player, he is a role player, not dominant, and therefore not worth the big money they gave him on a contract extension.

So, anyhow, there I was in LOS, checking the scores everyday, and the addition of Harrington didn't seem to help as they were still losing most of their games. By the time I got to Phuket, I didn't have a reliable wifi connection, and wrote the Warriors season off(they were 26-35), as it looked like another year of high hopes that came to nothing. Just another typical Warrior season!

Then I get back to California, am riding in my car, turn on the sports channel and hear, "the Warriors control their fate, if they win their remaining games, they are in the playoffs." Playoffs!! It sounded unbelievable! But they won their last 5 games, 9 of the last 10, and 16 or the last 21 / Baron got healthy, and the team finally jelled, when Harrington and Jackson got used to playing with the other guys.

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by Bsmoov

So JB, do you think the Warriors have a shot at winning the series?

They definitely have a shot, but it is going to be a very hard-fought series. They will be defending on every shot, and fighting hard for every loose ball. It will be intense to the max. The Mavs were very surprised yesterday. It was like they ran into a buzz saw, and they never expected that from an 8 seed. They will be back for Game 2 with a new determination now that they know what they are up against.

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by marc26

although they did have the mav's # this season
they wont win the series

That's easy to say, because how can one of the best teams the league has seen in years(67 wins), who were totally dominant since December, lose to an 8 seed, that won only 42 games. You look at the numbers, and say it is not possible. You look at the Dallas line-up of Nowitski, Jason Terry, Josh Howard, and Deavin Harris, plus Dampier and Diop at center, and say, "How could they possibly lose?"

However, the Warriors believe they can win. They believe in themselves, and are playing with an incredible intensity right up and down the line-up, which is deep. Jackson and Davis are playing like they are on a mission.

The Mavs' problem is that they don't really have anyone who can guard Davis effectively. They are going to have to double-team him, and play a collapsing defense, because they don't have one guy who can handle him. That leaves guys open for 3 pointers - Jackson, Richardson, and Ellis. Don't underestimate those 3 guys. If they can hit the threes, the Warriors will win. And if they leave a lane open to the basket, any one of those guys can go in and slam it. Davis, Ellis, Jackson,and Richardson are tremendous athletes, and so is Pietrus, for that matter, although he is not as good at handling the ball.

The bottom line is that when you have that kind of athleticism, plus good shooters, it puts a tremendous pressure on Dallas. Constant pressure. Sunday Dallas cracked under the pressure. Davis and Jackson thrive on pressure, and Ellis seems like he is becoming that kind of player also.

The Warriors weakness is the center position. They have a good center in Biedrins, a good back-up in Foyle, and a forward playing center in Harrington. Nelson prefers to go with Harrington, because then he can have Davis, Ellis, Richardson, and Jackson, his best players on the floor at once. Biedrins is inexperienced, makes mistakes, and takes a scorer off the floor when he is in. Neither Biedrins nor Foyle handle the ball well. Dampier can outmuscle Biedrins, and Foyle can't score. Diop is more athletic than either of them.

It will be interesting to see if Harrington can handle Dampier. He had a hard time with Diop. Also, with Harrington at center, Jackson and Pietrus had to guard Nowitski. Jackson gives up 4 inches, and Pietrus gives up 6, although he is a tenacious defender.

For Dallas to win then, they have to slow down the action, and play the half-court game, so they can dominate in the paint with their 7 footers, Nowitski, Dampier, and Diop. Personally, Dampier has never impressed me. But Nowitski is a great player, and I have been impressed with Diop's athleticism, and hustle.

Avery Johnson tried to match up with Nelson's smaller, more athletic line-up, and found out that they couldn't win that game. It's his move. If he goes to the big line, which he probably will, then it is up to Nelson to figure out how to offset the Dallas height advantage. I don't know how Nelson will do it, but I think the old master has a few tricks up his sleeve that Johnson hasn't seen yet. If anyone can figure a way to defend against them, it's Nelson. He knows Nowitski better than anyone.

But, in the end, I think it will come down to the two great players on these teams. Dirk Nowitski and Baron Davis. In game one, Davis had 33 points. He single-handedly kept his team in the game in the 3rd quarter, when Dallas had the lead and looked like they would pull away. And when the Warriors took the lead in the 4th, Davis buried the Mavs. Nowitski was a non-factor in the 4th quarter and had a poor game overall.

My prediction is that the play of Davis will determine the outcome. He is the guy who has to break down the Dallas defense. If Dallas can not stop him, the Warriors will win. Davis finally is healthy, and he has the kind of fired-up, hustling, never-say-die team behind him that he wants, and the kind of coach that he has always wanted, calling the shots. When the chips are down, he will call the Baron's number, time and again. It will be Davis, not Nowitski, who will determine the outcome, win or lose, IMHO.

I am going to go way out on a limb here - Warriors in six!!!!!!!

[Bsmoov]

The interesting thing is that Nelson told everyone straight up what he was going to do which was to play a small line up and throw 2-3 guys at Nowitzki if he so much as looks at the ball. In that 1st game it worked and to tell you the truth that's how the Warriors beat the Mavs every game during the regular season, so the Mavs had to know what to expect going into the game.

[slinggalin]

Warriors did seem to come around at the end of the season, but I still believe the Mavs will win the series.

S/B interesting

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by slinggalin

Warriors did seem to come around at the end of the season, but I still believe the Mavs will win the series.

S/B interesting

The smart money is still on the Mavs. I'm the dumb money.

[JayBee]

OK, they blew game 2 when Baron and Stephen J. self-destructed, and Jason Terry showed that he is the man for Dallas.

But Game 3 and the Baron was right back on track. Brilliant game. Not the top scorer but still had 24 pts. Much more important than his scoring, was his performance as "field general" out there directing the offense, making his teammates better players, and enabling Jason Richardson to rise to the occasion and show off his talent. They really needed a lot more from JR than what he showed in Games One and Two. Tonight he came through big time with 30 points, and some fantastic plays to watch.

Other highlights included the play of Andres Biedrins, who played the entire first half, and held his own against Eric Dampier very nicely. That was a major plus, since Harrington has yet to shine. Steven Jackson, as usual, got the team fired up, and also exposed the defensive liabilities of Dirk Nowitski, who was a non-factor in Game 3.

All in all, these teams are showing that they are possibly the two best teams in the league right now!!

[JayBee]

When asked how he was able to regain his composure for Game 3, and play so well, after what happened in Game 2, being thrown out, Baron replied, "My Grandmother says she's gonna whoop me if I get thrown out again!"

[Bsmoov]

Warriors now up 3-1 in the series. I don't see the Mavs coming back against them at this point. It looked like Stackhouse was going to take over the game for a minute but then Baron started doing his thing. Pretty good weekend of basketball all around -- my Bulls swept the Heat too!

[marc26]

i think Dirk is hurt
looks so awkward, but could be GS's defense

look at J-Kidd's line from Friday night
19asst, 16rebounds and 16points

one of the best stat lines in NBA history

[marc26]

well, Bay Area boys
what a series
and i was wrong

i am one of the biggest hoop junkies you will meet and i have never seen a crowd like that
i knew GS had a great crowd but that was unreal

[Bsmoov]

I wasn't at the game, just watched it at the local pub and my throat is still hoarse and my ears ringing. I'd pick the Warriors against either Houston or Utah right now. Now if my Bulls can just steal one from Detroit this weekend all will be right with the world at least for a while.

[Bsmoov]

Originally Posted by JayBee

That's easy to say, because how can one of the best teams the league has seen in years(67 wins), who were totally dominant since December, lose to an 8 seed, that won only 42 games. You look at the numbers, and say it is not possible. You look at the Dallas line-up of Nowitski, Jason Terry, Josh Howard, and Deavin Harris, plus Dampier and Diop at center, and say, "How could they possibly lose?"

However, the Warriors believe they can win. They believe in themselves, and are playing with an incredible intensity right up and down the line-up, which is deep. Jackson and Davis are playing like they are on a mission.

The Mavs' problem is that they don't really have anyone who can guard Davis effectively. They are going to have to double-team him, and play a collapsing defense, because they don't have one guy who can handle him. That leaves guys open for 3 pointers - Jackson, Richardson, and Ellis. Don't underestimate those 3 guys. If they can hit the threes, the Warriors will win. And if they leave a lane open to the basket, any one of those guys can go in and slam it. Davis, Ellis, Jackson,and Richardson are tremendous athletes, and so is Pietrus, for that matter, although he is not as good at handling the ball.

The bottom line is that when you have that kind of athleticism, plus good shooters, it puts a tremendous pressure on Dallas. Constant pressure. Sunday Dallas cracked under the pressure. Davis and Jackson thrive on pressure, and Ellis seems like he is becoming that kind of player also.

The Warriors weakness is the center position. They have a good center in Biedrins, a good back-up in Foyle, and a forward playing center in Harrington. Nelson prefers to go with Harrington, because then he can have Davis, Ellis, Richardson, and Jackson, his best players on the floor at once. Biedrins is inexperienced, makes mistakes, and takes a scorer off the floor when he is in. Neither Biedrins nor Foyle handle the ball well. Dampier can outmuscle Biedrins, and Foyle can't score. Diop is more athletic than either of them.

It will be interesting to see if Harrington can handle Dampier. He had a hard time with Diop. Also, with Harrington at center, Jackson and Pietrus had to guard Nowitski. Jackson gives up 4 inches, and Pietrus gives up 6, although he is a tenacious defender.

For Dallas to win then, they have to slow down the action, and play the half-court game, so they can dominate in the paint with their 7 footers, Nowitski, Dampier, and Diop. Personally, Dampier has never impressed me. But Nowitski is a great player, and I have been impressed with Diop's athleticism, and hustle.

Avery Johnson tried to match up with Nelson's smaller, more athletic line-up, and found out that they couldn't win that game. It's his move. If he goes to the big line, which he probably will, then it is up to Nelson to figure out how to offset the Dallas height advantage. I don't know how Nelson will do it, but I think the old master has a few tricks up his sleeve that Johnson hasn't seen yet. If anyone can figure a way to defend against them, it's Nelson. He knows Nowitski better than anyone.

But, in the end, I think it will come down to the two great players on these teams. Dirk Nowitski and Baron Davis. In game one, Davis had 33 points. He single-handedly kept his team in the game in the 3rd quarter, when Dallas had the lead and looked like they would pull away. And when the Warriors took the lead in the 4th, Davis buried the Mavs. Nowitski was a non-factor in the 4th quarter and had a poor game overall.

My prediction is that the play of Davis will determine the outcome. He is the guy who has to break down the Dallas defense. If Dallas can not stop him, the Warriors will win. Davis finally is healthy, and he has the kind of fired-up, hustling, never-say-die team behind him that he wants, and the kind of coach that he has always wanted, calling the shots. When the chips are down, he will call the Baron's number, time and again. It will be Davis, not Nowitski, who will determine the outcome, win or lose, IMHO.

I am going to go way out on a limb here - Warriors in six!!!!!!!

You called it JB

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Bsmoov

I wasn't at the game, just watched it at the local pub and my throat is still hoarse and my ears ringing. I'd pick the Warriors against either Houston or Utah right now. Now if my Bulls can just steal one from Detroit this weekend all will be right with the world at least for a while.

i think Warriors will beat Houston or Utah but would have tougher time with Utah

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by Bsmoov

You called it JB

Indeed, I did, Bmoov!!! In retrospect, seems like it wasn't that hard of a call!

To recap the drama:

Game 4 was a hard fought game all the way. Dallas came out of the locker room with fire in their eyes. Through 3 and a half quarters, they threatened to pull away from the Warriors, but each time they looked like they were going to do it, Davis scored and the Warriors closed the gap by the end of each quarter. Then with 6:30 remaining in the game, the Warriors showed that they can be a clutch team, soon catching and passing the Mavs, 103-99 final.

As I said before, as goes Baron, so go the Warriors. The Baron had a fantastic game with help from the usual suspects, Stephen J, and J Rich. Surprises were that Ellis disappeared, and Pietrus showed he can't be taken lightly.

Game 5: Two ways to look at this game: 1) It was Dirk's game, and well overdue for such a great player. The 2 in a row 3 pointers he hit when Dallas trailed by 9 with 3 minutes remaining was simply fantastic icewater-in-the-veins clutch performance by Nowitski. 2)Chalk up a loss in the Coach's column as Nellie blew this one. Up by 9 points, he slowed the game down into a halfcourt game, and left a key defender, Biedrins, on the bench. You can bet he wouldn't make those mistakes again. Final:118-112, Mavs, who ran off the last 15 points in the game.

Davis played well enough to win, but Nowitski made the big shots this time. Score one for Dirk. Nevertheless, the Warriors showed they are for real, by nearly pulling off the big upset on the Mavs' home court, no small feat.

[JayBee]

Game 6: This game was do or die for both teams, because if the Warriors can't win in Oakland, then what chance do they have in Game 7 in Dallas. A loss here would shift momemtum to where it would take a miracle for GS to win in Dallas.

In the 2nd quarter, with Dallas ahead by a couple of points, Davis went into the locker room with a pulled hamstring, the muscle that has plagued him throughout his career and kept him from claiming his place as one of the premier stars of the league. On the next GS possession, Jackson was hammered by a wicked shot to the forehead under the boards. He went down in a heap, and lay there for several minutes, grimacing in pain, trying to shake it off and clear his brain, as the trainer attended to him. At that moment, watching a clearly dazed Jackson, and knowing Davis was out of the game, it was a very scary interlude for GS fans. You could see the whole season going down the drain before your eyes. On the next couple of possessions, Monta Ellis, who was removed from the lineup because he had been pretty much a no-show this series, came in and scored two buckets. That was huge from a guy who had done nothing, but he sure showed up when the team was in dire straits. Then Jackson came back in, and Davis emerged form the locker room before half time to lead the team back to a 2 pt. lead.

In the 3rd quarter, the Warriors came out and simply play incredible basketball, with Davis and Jackson, the guys who have the will to win, the guys who want to win so bad that in Game 3 they got too fired up and were thrown out, they showed the way. Nelson did not make the same mistake he made before. Instead of slowing it down he put the pedal to the medal.

It was a great series. And the Warriors learned a lot about themselves. They learned that Davis and Jackson are the clutch guys, and Richardson will always rally behind them. That Ellis and Harrington, overall, were not able to rise to the occasion. Pietrus is a great athlete and solid contributor, and performed pretty much as expected. The BIG SURPRISES - first and foremost, Matt Barnes, who played his best ball of the year, played with same kind of will and inspiration as Baron and Stephen, and showed what kind of a clutch guy he is. Secondly, Andris Biedrins, who is still a little raw, showed, nontheless, that although he occasionally makes mistakes, that he has great talent, does not wilt under pressure, can be a formidable defensive presence blocking and/or changing guys' shots, and, though not a great offensive player, will take one step towards the hoop, leap, and jam it, if a lane to the bucket is left open and he takes the ball in the high post inside the foul line.

In the end, it was Davis v. Nowitski, as to who was not just a great player, but a great leader, who could carry his team to victory. Game 6 was one more feather in the Baron's cap. Everyone is SF area knew what Davis can do. Now everyone knows it. What we all didn't know, is that Stephen Jackson is right there with him, taking on half the load, and making a lot harder for teams to win by doubling and collapsing the lane on Davis. Now we know it. We have learned a lot about these guys, and a lot about their will to win.

Warriors 111, Mavs 86. A blowout!!!!

[marc26]

Originally Posted by JayBee

Game 6: This game was do or die for both teams, because if the Warriors can't win in Oakland, then what chance do they have in Game 7 in Dallas. A loss here would shift momemtum to where it would take a miracle for GS to win in Dallas.

In the 2nd quarter, with Dallas ahead by a couple of points, Davis went into the locker room with a pulled hamstring, the muscle that has plagued him throughout his career and kept him from claiming his place as one of the premier stars of the league. On the next GS possession, Jackson was hammered by a wicked shot to the forehead under the boards. He went down in a heap, and lay there for several minutes, grimacing in pain, trying to shake it off and clear his brain, as the trainer attended to him. At that moment, watching a clearly dazed Jackson, and knowing Davis was out of the game, it was a very scary interlude for GS fans. You could see the whole season going down the drain before your eyes. On the next couple of possessions, Monta Ellis, who was removed from the lineup because he had been pretty much a no-show this series, came in and scored two buckets. That was huge from a guy who had done nothing, but he sure showed up when the team was in dire straits. Then Jackson came back in, and Davis emerged form the locker room before half time to lead the team back to a 2 pt. lead.

In the 3rd quarter, the Warriors came out and simply play incredible basketball, with Davis and Jackson, the guys who have the will to win, the guys who want to win so bad that in Game 3 they got too fired up and were thrown out, they showed the way. Nelson did not make the same mistake he made before. Instead of slowing it down he put the pedal to the medal.

It was a great series. And the Warriors learned a lot about themselves. They learned that Davis and Jackson are the clutch guys, and Richardson will always rally behind them. That Ellis and Harrington, overall, were not able to rise to the occasion. Pietrus is a great athlete and solid contributor, and performed pretty much as expected. The BIG SURPRISES - first and foremost, Matt Barnes, who played his best ball of the year, played with same kind of will and inspiration as Baron and Stephen, and showed what kind of a clutch guy he is. Secondly, Andris Biedrins, who is still a little raw, showed, nontheless, that although he occasionally makes mistakes, that he has great talent, does not wilt under pressure, can be a formidable defensive presence blocking and/or changing guys' shots, and, though not a great offensive player, will take one step towards the hoop, leap, and jam it, if a lane to the bucket is left open and he takes the ball in the high post inside the foul line.

In the end, it was Davis v. Nowitski, as to who was not just a great player, but a great leader, who could carry his team to victory. Game 6 was one more feather in the Baron's cap. Everyone is SF area knew what Davis can do. Now everyone knows it. What we all didn't know, is that Stephen Jackson is right there with him, taking on half the load, and making a lot harder for teams to win by doubling and collapsing the lane on Davis. Now we know it. We have learned a lot about these guys, and a lot about their will to win.

Warriors 111, Mavs 86. A blowout!!!!

you speak like a naive guy who never watched hoops!!
we all knew what baron davis could do
when he decides to get in shape and spend more time concentrating on hoops than his P Diddy-like outside interests(movies and record producing)
to say Jackson got kicked out of the game because he wanted to win so badly is laughable!! he's the biggest fruitcake in the leauge
and if you guys didnt know he was clutch, go watch the San Antonio series when they won the NBA title, they would have one less ring if it wasnt for Jackson

the biggest star on this Warriors team is Don Nelson. making that trade at the early stages (and getting rid of all those slow white guys 5555) is why they are where they are
plus you gotta love a coach that shows up for a post-game press conference with a beer in his hand

anyways, im just being an instigator here and am actually rooting for GS, just like every other fan in the country who's favorite team(for me, Celts) isnt in the playoffs

[Bsmoov]

Have to agree with Marc26. Baron could be one of the top 2 or 3 guards in the league if he'd just stay healthy. He's got a few extra days to rest his hammy thanks to HOU and Utah going to 7 games so that can only help. I read in the paper that Baron and Kate Hudson went to high school together, explains why she was at the game whooping it up like a hood rat from West Oakland. You think the Baron tapped that back in the day?

[marc26]

Originally Posted by Bsmoov

Have to agree with Marc26. Baron could be one of the top 2 or 3 guards in the league if he'd just stay healthy. He's got a few extra days to rest his hammy thanks to HOU and Utah going to 7 games so that can only help. I read in the paper that Baron and Kate Hudson went to high school together, explains why she was at the game whooping it up like a hood rat from West Oakland. You think the Baron tapped that back in the day?

i know BD has some bad knees and what-not but he also didnt really commit as well as he should have
he's one of my favorite playerts in the leauge and i had him in my fanatsy leauge this year. i just thought Don Nelson would let him play his game

i think a few people went to that high school
i know Austin Croshere on the other side did

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by marc26

i think Warriors will beat Houston or Utah but would have tougher time with Utah

It's Utah! The Warriors will probably win if they can stay healthy, but that is a big IF. Davis has a bad hamstring and fluid build-up on his bad knee. Barnes has two bad hamstrings, and a fractured finger.

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by marc26

you speak like a naive guy who never watched hoops!!
we all knew what baron davis could do

I think that you are naive about how many people follow NBA basketball to the extent that you do. I have been a die-hard Warriors fan since you were in knee pants, and know everything about the Warriors, but very little about other teams, outside of the big stars like Kobe, Iverson, Duncan, Nash, Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady, LeBron, Dwayne Wade, Shaquille, etc.(the list goes on). Davis has never come close to that level in terms of recognition or accomplishments. Sure, everyone knows he is a good player. But one of the PREMIER players of the league? No way. Still not yet. He missed 20 games with injuries this year, and didn't have a very good season last year, or the last 2 years he was with the Hornets. His career stats are very average for a starting PG: 16 ppg, 7 assists, 41% FG, and 68% FT(extremely bad for any guard). This year he was a bit better at 20/8, but the 20 missed games really hurt the team. If the Warriors advance in the next round, maybe he will get some media attention and become a household name. Maybe not. Not everybody plays fantasy league basketball, fer Chrissakes!! And the CBS fantasy league ratings have Davis ranked as the 20th best point guard and the 68th best overall player. I am a pretty typical fan. I know my team, and don't really follow other teams, except to know who's on top, and who gets the big press, like Kobe, Nash, LeBron, etc. People don't take guards who play for perennial losers too seriously, especially if they haven't played a full season in 4 or 5 yrs. How many average people(not you!), do you think know who Chris Paul is or care? The guy is an outstanding talent, but until the Hornets win something, or he goes to a team that does, he will never be considered a premier guard in the league, but rather just another good player among a hundred other good players in the league.

Originally Posted by marc26

when he decides to get in shape and spend more time concentrating on hoop s than his P Diddy-like outside interests(movies and record producing)

According to Don Nelson, Davis is a very hard worker, and "the injuries are very real. When he gets injured and they're serious enough, it really hampers his play."

A bad knee is a bad knee, and some guys just have bad hams. It is not something you choose or get because you don't give a damn enough to get in shape. You are way off there. The bad hams have been a limiting factor for him for most of his pro career. Then the knee went. It is unlikely that he will ever rise to the prominence of the greats like Iverson or Nash or John Stockton, or Kobe, or Wade, to name a few great guards, because of recurrent health problems. Only if the Warriors went all the way this yr or at least to the finals, would he get that kind of recognition. If he was rated as highly as you seem to think, guys like you would not have been writing the Warriors off so easily against the Mavs.

BTW, prior to this series, as recently as 12 days ago, all the talk on the sports radio, which I listen to everyday, was that the Warriors should trade Davis now while his stock is high after the 16-5 run the Warriors made to close the season. The pundits all felt that Davis's success won't last, he is good for only 50 games, if you are very lucky, and Ellis is the team's future PG.

Originally Posted by marc26

to say Jackson got kicked out of the game because he wanted to win so badly is laughable!! he's the biggest fruitcake in the leauge

He wants to win so bad that he gets overemotional and out of control. That happens with some guys and even Davis sometimes. That is what got them thrown out, plain and simple. In fact, the refs were picking on him because of his reputation, and the commissioner even admitted as much, when he said the player's history was taken into consideration when those ejections were made. In Game 2, he was chucked for clapping and laughing after a call he disagreed with. In Game 5, he was thrown out just for laughing after a call with 8 seconds left in the game. That ref should be fined for that ejection. There was a time in the game when you really had to be giving a ref some serious mouth or bumping him to get thrown out. These refs are getting out of hand. Same thing happened with Duncan not too long ago.

Originally Posted by marc26

and if you guys didnt know he was clutch, go watch the San Antonio series when they won the NBA title, they would have one less ring if it wasnt for Jackson.

Thanks but I think I'll pass on that won. I did watch that series way back when, but although I remember Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, and some others, I really did not remember Jackson(he only averaged 10 ppg in 2 seasons for San Antonion and if he was so valuable, they wouldn't have got rid of him, IMHO). When the trade was made, I read all the press on the internet(was in LOS), and it was pretty much portrayed as GS wanted Harrington, who they had been after for years, and they were taking the fruitcake off of Indiana's hands in order to get Harrington, and dump the big MISTAKEs that Mullin made when he gave big contracts to Murphy and Dunleavy. BTW, GS came out of that 30 or 40 mil in the black. So, obviously, Jackson was thrown in to send some salary to GS. Indiana was dumping him and no one else wanted the contract of a guy with his history, reputation, and ongoing problems with the law. There was no mention of his clutch performance in San Antonio(who, except you, remembers games from 4 yrs ago, when it wasn't even your team?) only talk that he had talent, but was really a big risk because of his erratic behavior. Not a whole lot was really expected of him. They already had more than enough good guards with Davis, Ellis, Richardson, and Pietrus. GS was not looking for another guard, or another swingman(with Davis and Ellis at guards, Richardson and Pietrus were already swingmen.) All the pundits here regarded Ellis as the big talent on this team.

And as far as being clutch players, if you really knew that about Davis, Jackson, Barnes, and Richardson, among others, you would not have picked Dallas to win! You thought Nowitski, Terry, Howard, and Stackhouse were the clutch guy, obviously, or you would not have picked them. And the same goes for the rest of America, and Las Vegas, where the Mavs were very heavy favorites. A lot of people won big money around here, because most of us thought the Warriors could beat Dallas. But you never really know for sure until the games are played, who is clutch and who is isn't. Ellis, Harrington, and Nowitski sure looked like it going into the series, but they wilted. No one expected it of Barnes(except maybe his Mom and Dad), but he delivered, and so did Biedrins. Even Nellie didn't expect that or he would have had them starting the first 3 games of the series. And Jackson, hey, people had written him off as a once great talent that never really panned out, who nobody wanted to take a chance on anymore. No one cares what some one did years ago, and few remember outside of San Antonio. If you look at his season stats(14 ppg) for GS, they are nowhere near his stats in the last 6 games, and not as good as Harrington's(17 ppg) or Ellis's(16.5 ppg) stats, either. BTW, how many times did he score 30 or more pts. for S.A. in a playoff series. There was nothing to indicate he would emerge as a team leader in the playoffs. The NY Times headlines after Game 6 was "Jackson Emerges as the Unlikely Leader of the Warriors’ Improbable Run." Gee, I guess the NY Times sports writers don't remember San Antonio from 4 yrs ago, either Paul, I think you missed your calling!

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by marc26

the biggest star on this Warriors team is Don Nelson.

Right.

Originally Posted by marc26

making that trade at the early stages (and getting rid of all those slow white guys 5555) is why they are where they are

Wrong!!

Mully engineered the trade and pulled the trigger. When he was with the Warriors the first time around as Coach and GM, Nellie drafted well, but never made a good trade. The all time classic blunder was the "no brainer"(as he called it at the time) trade of Mitch Richmond to Sacramento for Billy Owens. That trade directly led to the demise of the great Warrior team of the late 80s early 90's, when Nellie had them winning 50+ games and in the playoffs every year.

This time around all trade decisions were put in Mully's capable hands. He got us Baron Davis for N.O. for some little under 6 ft. PG, whose name I can't even remember(Speedy Claxton). And then Harrington/Jackson, etc. for Murphy/Dunleavy, etc.!!!! Plus 40 million dollars in contract savings. Oh my God!! GM of the YR. And BTW, Mullins is also responsible for persuading Nellie to come out of retirement and take on the coaching job. :thumbs up:

Originally Posted by marc26

plus you gotta love a coach that shows up for a post-game press conference with a beer in his hand.

I do!!!!!!!!!!! And after game 6, he had 50+ people, including Davis, Barnes, and some of the team, over to his penthouse apartment and they partied into the wee hours.

Originally Posted by marc26

anyways, im just being an instigator here and am actually rooting for GS, just like every other fan in the country who's favorite team(for me, Celts) isnt in the playoffs

Nice to see you rooting for the good guys! And, btw, I guess you did get me instigated!

P.S. The fact that NO traded Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis shows you just how low Davis' stock had fallen, if they couldn't get a team to give them better value than a PG, who will never amount to much, and a washed-up veteran power forward, who could never shoot well, even in his best years.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by JayBee

Right.



Wrong!!

Mully engineered the trade and pulled the trigger. When he was with the Warriors the first time around as Coach and GM, Nellie drafted well, but never made a good trade. The all time classic blunder was the "no brainer"(as he called it at the time) trade of Mitch Richmond to Sacramento for Billy Owens. That trade directly led to the demise of the great Warrior team of the late 80s early 90's, when Nellie had them winning 50+ games and in the playoffs every year.

This time around all trade decisions were put in Mully's capable hands. He got us Baron Davis for N.O. for some little under 6 ft. PG, whose name I can't even remember(Speedy Claxton). And then Harrington/Jackson, etc. for Murphy/Dunleavy, etc.!!!! Plus 40 million dollars in contract savings. Oh my God!! GM of the YR. And BTW, Mullins is also responsible for persuading Nellie to come out of retirement and take on the coaching job. :thumbs up:



.

Jaybee. you couldnt be more wrong about this trade. this was a Don Nelson trade if there ever was one. He wanted those slow plodding guys off his team so bad so that he could play his "small ball"
just because Chris Mullin madethe trade as the GM, it was all Don Nelson

[marc26]

Originally Posted by JayBee

. How many average people(not you!), do you think know who Chris Paul is or care? The guy is an outstanding talent, but until the Hornets win something, or he goes to a team that does, he will never be considered a premier guard in the league, but rather just another good player among a hundred other good players in the league.

thats an insane quote
maybe a casual fan would not know Chris Paul but ask any GM who he would want to start a franchise with as PG and Chris Paul would be 2nd player mentioned everytime only behind Steve Nash and maybe even before because of his age
never considered a premier guard in the leauge???? thats ludicrous!!!

[marc26]

Originally Posted by JayBee

The NY Times headlines after Game 6 was "Jackson Emerges as the Unlikely Leader of the Warriors’ Improbable Run." Gee, I guess the NY Times sports writers don't remember San Antonio from 4 yrs ago, either Paul, I think you missed your calling!

maybe that is the root of our problem here Jaybee
you take a gander at the sportspage after reading the Op Eds in the New York Times!!!
although i love the paper, not the best sport pages around

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by marc26

thats an insane quote
maybe a casual fan would not know Chris Paul but ask any GM who he would want to start a franchise with as PG and Chris Paul would be 2nd player mentioned everytime only behind Steve Nash and maybe even before because of his age
never considered a premier guard in the leauge???? thats ludicrous!!!

You totally make my case for me, Paul. Chris Paul is a great player, and, given his age, may well be the first guy a GM would take to build around. But except for the dedicated basketball fans, who really know the game, and really are paying attention, very few people would know that.

The word premier derives from the Latin word, "primarius," which means foremost. Foremost is defined as most important or most notable. Therefore, it does not mean best, but those who are most recognized for their talent and accomplishments. I first used it when talking about Davis perhaps finally attaining some notoriety among people, in general, as one of the NBA's premier guards. Look at the All-Star voting for 2007. Neither Paul or Davis made the team. Paul finished 12th, and Davis finished 16th in the balloting.

That is hardly what I call being recognized as the best. And that is among fans who care enough to take the time to vote, not among casual fans, who make up the vast majority of fans. Just listen to sports radio shows. Most of the callers are a notch above being idiots, and know very little about the game or the players except who they like and who they hate. And those are the people who are big enough sports fans to listen to sports radio and call the show.

My definition of premier guards would mean being in the top 5, at least. Kidd, Nash, Wade, Carter, Kobe, McGrady, Iverson, Parker, Arenas. Pick any 5 of them, and there you have your premier guards, the ones whose names are well-known, and not just to GMs and fans who can name the probable starting line-ups of most of the 28 teams in the league(less than a fraction of 1% of fans, I would bet).

If the Warriors were to go all the way, which is highly unlikely(but not impossible), then Davis would get the kind of publicity and exposure that would move him into that small elite group. Paul hasn't been around long enough. Only a few players, like Magic or LeBron get that status after only a year or two. For Paul, that kind of exposure is years away, if ever, since NO is not likely to be a serious contender any time soon. If NO never rises to that level, then one day Paul gets free agency, moves to a contender, and becomes a premier player, if he continues to play at the level he is capable of.

The premier guys get the endorsement money. The Nike money, the shoe money, the money for other ads. The guys I named are making that money. They are the known guys, the big names. That is what it means to be a premier player. Name recognition. And not just from guys who would recognize the names of 80% of the players in the league. How many Chris Paul ads have you seen. I haven't even seen a Baron Davis ad yet. He was on Conan's show after the victory over Dallas. That is where it starts, getting the broader media spotlight, and not just at game time, or on sports shows.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by JayBee

You totally make my case for me, Paul. Chris Paul is a great player, and, given his age, may well be the first guy a GM would take to build around. But except for the dedicated basketball fans, who really know the game, and really are paying attention, very few people would know that.

The word premier derives from the Latin word, "primarius," which means foremost. Foremost is defined as most important or most notable. Therefore, it does not mean best, but those who are most recognized for their talent and accomplishments. I first used it when talking about Davis perhaps finally attaining some notoriety among people, in general, as one of the NBA's premier guards. Look at the All-Star voting for 2007. Neither Paul or Davis made the team. Paul finished 12th, and Davis finished 16th in the balloting.

That is hardly what I call being recognized as the best. And that is among fans who care enough to take the time to vote, not among casual fans, who make up the vast majority of fans. Just listen to sports radio shows. Most of the callers are a notch above being idiots, and know very little about the game or the players except who they like and who they hate. And those are the people who are big enough sports fans to listen to sports radio and call the show.

My definition of premier guards would mean being in the top 5, at least. Kidd, Nash, Wade, Carter, Kobe, McGrady, Iverson, Parker, Arenas. Pick any 5 of them, and there you have your premier guards, the ones whose names are well-known, and not just to GMs and fans who can name the probable starting line-ups of most of the 28 teams in the league(less than a fraction of 1% of fans, I would bet).

If the Warriors were to go all the way, which is highly unlikely(but not impossible), then Davis would get the kind of publicity and exposure that would move him into that small elite group. Paul hasn't been around long enough. Only a few players, like Magic or LeBron get that status after only a year or two. For Paul, that kind of exposure is years away, if ever, since NO is not likely to be a serious contender any time soon. If NO never rises to that level, then one day Paul gets free agency, moves to a contender, and becomes a premier player, if he continues to play at the level he is capable of.

The premier guys get the endorsement money. The Nike money, the shoe money, the money for other ads. The guys I named are making that money. They are the known guys, the big names. That is what it means to be a premier player. Name recognition. And not just from guys who would recognize the names of 80% of the players in the league. How many Chris Paul ads have you seen. I haven't even seen a Baron Davis ad yet. He was on Conan's show after the victory over Dallas. That is where it starts, getting the broader media spotlight, and not just at game time, or on sports shows.

i have 2 words for you regarding Chris Paul
TEAM USA!!!!

he's on the olympic team. thats a premier player

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by marc26

Jaybee. you couldnt be more wrong about this trade. this was a Don Nelson trade if there ever was one. He wanted those slow plodding guys off his team so bad so that he could play his "small ball"
just because Chris Mullin madethe trade as the GM, it was all Don Nelson

First off, why do you think Nelson is coach? He retired to Hawaii, and why would he want to take on a bumbling team that has self-destructed every year, gone through a list of talent that would make an All-Star team, and still was the perennial basement dweller, until a few weeks ago? I'll tell you why. Because Mullins flew to Hawaii, tracked him down, begged, cajoled, and finally persuaded him to take the job. Cohan never liked Nellie, and got rid of him soon after he bought the Warriors from Franklin Mieuli. Mullins convinced him to let him get Nelson back, which was a huge admission of guilt for Cohan, guilt for wrecking the franchise for the previous 12 years. No small feat to get a powerful billionaire to eat his hat on that count.

This was not a Don Nelson trade. Does Chris Mullins talk to Nelson? Does he have a lot of respect for Nelson? Absolutely. But he has been trying to get Harrington for years, since he was with Atlanta. That is well-documented, no secret. It was his pursuit of Harrington that caused them to initiate trade talks. Indiana wanted to get rid of Jackson, and were willing to part with Harrington. GS wanted to get rid of Murphy and were willing to part with Dunleavy. Dunleavy has never lived up to the great potential that he has. Nor did Jackson. Having a good playoff run one year, and then self-destructing to the point where GS was the only team willing to give up anything to get him, is not my idea of realizing one's potential. Taking on Jackson was a very big gamble. BTW, he has his court hearing this week on criminal charges in Indiana! Hope it doesn't hurt his game.

And as far as Nelson not wanting any slow white guys on his team, I seem to remember him drafting a guy out of St. John's, a slow white guard w/ a pretty good jump shot. Worked out pretty well for him, IIRC.

Bottom line - Mullins is the GM. He is the guy that Cohan trusted with the team, not Nelson. Therefore, he makes the personnel decisions, not Nelson. But don't underestimate Mullins. He is smart enough to run things past Nelson, will listen to his opinion, and give it a lot of weight. And smarter than all but a few GMs, to be able to put his ego aside, and admit that the signings of Murphy, Foyle, and Dunleavy to huge contracts were big mistakes. And brilliant in getting Indiana to do the deal. You don't think Nelson did that, do you? If you don't think that Mullins is his own man, who calls his own shots, then you don't know much about Chris Mullins.

[marc26]

Originally Posted by JayBee

First off, why do you think Nelson is coach? He retired to Hawaii, and why would he want to take on a bumbling team that has self-destructed every year, gone through a list of talent that would make an All-Star team, and still was the perennial basement dweller, until a few weeks ago? I'll tell you why. Because Mullins flew to Hawaii, tracked him down, begged, cajoled, and finally persuaded him to take the job. Cohan never liked Nellie, and got rid of him soon after he bought the Warriors from Franklin Mieuli. Mullins convinced him to let him get Nelson back, which was a huge admission of guilt for Cohan, guilt for wrecking the franchise for the previous 12 years. No small feat to get a powerful billionaire to eat his hat on that count.

This was not a Don Nelson trade. Does Chris Mullins talk to Nelson? Does he have a lot of respect for Nelson? Absolutely. But he has been trying to get Harrington for years, since he was with Atlanta. That is well-documented, no secret. It was his pursuit of Harrington that caused them to initiate trade talks. Indiana wanted to get rid of Jackson, and were willing to part with Harrington. GS wanted to get rid of Murphy and were willing to part with Dunleavy. Dunleavy has never lived up to the great potential that he has. Nor did Jackson. Having a good playoff run one year, and then self-destructing to the point where GS was the only team willing to give up anything to get him, is not my idea of realizing one's potential. Taking on Jackson was a very big gamble. BTW, he has his court hearing this week on criminal charges in Indiana! Hope it doesn't hurt his game.

And as far as Nelson not wanting any slow white guys on his team, I seem to remember him drafting a guy out of St. John's, a slow white guard w/ a pretty good jump shot. Worked out pretty well for him, IIRC.

Bottom line - Mullins is the GM. He is the guy that Cohan trusted with the team, not Nelson. Therefore, he makes the personnel decisions, not Nelson. But don't underestimate Mullins. He is smart enough to run things past Nelson, will listen to his opinion, and give it a lot of weight. And smarter than all but a few GMs, to be able to put his ego aside, and admit that the signings of Murphy, Foyle, and Dunleavy to huge contracts were big mistakes. And brilliant in getting Indiana to do the deal. You don't think Nelson did that, do you? If you don't think that Mullins is his own man, who calls his own shots, then you don't know much about Chris Mullins.

1st off, i lived in nyc, so you dont have to convince me of being a fan of Chris Mullin. he is NYC basketball
i like debating with you, and you are obvious a fan, but i dont think you follow NBA basketball like i do. i knew at the beginnning of the season that Nellie didnt want anything to do with Murphy and Dunleavy. there were countless articles about it before and after the trade
i have been watching Nellie coach since i was a kid and those 2 guys did not fit into Nellie's style of play. he thought he could use one of them as his "point forward" but it didnt work out
you can aruge that with Mullin going and getting Nellie he was hiring him for his style of coaching and thus, when they traded away those guys he was just continuing his reconstruction of the team but the trade was made because those players could not fit into Nellie's system

Go G-State!!!

[seafox]

Jaybee,

Good luck for your Warriors. Good to see some new blood in the playoffs.

Especially since Dirk No-Winski tanked in the final game.

[marc26]

Jaybee
the only thing i have been wrong in this whole thread is saying that Dallas would still beat the Warriors