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#106
27-05-2008, 11:27
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SA have decided to allow a small number of overseas based players to play for the Bok's Three is the number that they are talking about. I wonder if NZ will not follow that lead. It does seem as if McAllistair is already talking up a home coming... 
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#107
28-05-2008, 07:21
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Carter has been given a "special one off" leave of absence to play NH Rugby in the forthcoming season.... he will play tests this year then join a club to start late in the year missing the Super14 of course but will be back for the SH tests series next year....estimates/rumours are that he will get a million+ "squids" for this.......otherwise no one else has exemptions I read recently that 70+ NZ players....most former AB's + some fringe AB's are now playing in the NH ruling themselves out of AB selection...that must be huge presure on Rugby NZ to relax the rule the same way that SA has done....of course their biggest fear is in doing so all current + aspiring AB's could go for the bucks leaving the Super14 and NPC domestic competition devoid of the upper echelon of players
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 ....but of course I was verey verey draaank at the taaame!!!
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#108
28-05-2008, 12:03
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In the past it was the guys at the end of their careers or those on the fringes of Provincial teams who would go. But with the money being thrown about now it is more and more the top players being enticed. I agree that you cannot just open it up and have domestic and Super Rugby suffer. Some sort of incentive must be in place for players to stay at home and the best is to limit the number of overseas based players in the national team. I also think that the effect of too many overseas players will have a negative effect on the European teams and they will put in their own systems to limit the number of players involved.
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#109
28-05-2008, 15:08
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Is the NZRFU really that poor, after all there are far more clubs than there are in Wales and there are very few of the Welsh players playing outside Wales.
Gareth Thomas had a stint at Toulouse. Dwayne Peel has signed for Sale. Stephen Jones went to Clemont Auvergne. Not many other of their top players had to leave, despite there only being 4 professional teams in the country and they are not playing in a league that generates a huge TV revenue (nothing from SKY for example unlike the S14) and yet even this small Welsh market has attracted Justin Marshall, Xavier Rush, Ben Blair, Marty Holah and Sonny Parker. Where does all the money in New Zealand go? is it on a par with TRT? ps. anyone spot the deliberate joke there?
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#110
28-05-2008, 15:39
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The strength of the Euro as opposed to the NZ Dollar and SA rand (especialy the Rand)
France seems to be the big drawcard at the moment. They are attracting the likes of Dan Carter, Jerry Collins and Victor Matfield.
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#111
28-05-2008, 22:43
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An example as to why players are going north.
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#112
28-05-2008, 22:49
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Byt the way, don't look at Collins going to France. He has a child that lives in England and spent last year after the world cup playing there
Yep, he's signing for Barnstable 2nd XV Well actually someone a bit bigger than that.
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#113
28-05-2008, 23:08
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There's no shortage of sponsorship in SA.............Investec and Vodacom pumping millions into the game...............but when players are being offered contracts in Pounds as compared to the Rand ie 15/1 of course it's difficult to refuse........stop doing that and most of our players will stay in their home countries.
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#115
29-05-2008, 02:59
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55555 You may be correct Pete, but I think you will find its the money is the deciding factor. Although its great for the British public to see these overseas stars weekly, it must, and does have a detrimental effect on the development of younger UK players. Perhaps time to limit the number of overseas players per club, aka English cricket.
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If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?
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#116
29-05-2008, 05:08
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in NZRU case they set aside a proportion of their income to sign AB + potential AB players and the balance which is the vast majority goes into the games development here via various junior and club schemes...possibly one of the reason the players are so good in the first place but one which makes it harder for NZ rugby to sign them when compared to the money on offer from OS clubs who can just buy an already proven talent
Don't forget NZ only has a population of 4 million so of course the potential revenue from audiences for both TV and match attendance is miniscule compared to Europe..... I don't see a solution to the conundrum for NZRU...they are damned if they let players who go play in the AB's (as most others at a similar standard will also take te money on offer OS) and damned if they don't in that as soon as the players come off coinatract they are going anyway
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....but of course I was verey verey draaank at the taaame!!!
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#117
29-05-2008, 09:15
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As I pointed out, Wales has a much smaller market, they have 3 million people and rugby is all concentrated in one small part of that country. Their national competition receives no money from SKY (which provides money for the S14 and the NPC) and they can can entice players from NZ to there. This money is not coming from the WRU as they are poor. So why can't NZ compete? As for the arguemnet about currency in SA, it doesn't hold water. It's about the amount, what does the exchange rate matter? If a guy gets 200,000GBP a year and the Rand is 15/1 then he has received 3,000,000Rand. Pay him 3,500,000 Rand and he will stay, if you over him 2,000,000 Rand he will not. But I don't see why the actual currency should matter.
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Last edited by Schmeen : 29-05-2008 at 09:23.
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#118
29-05-2008, 10:30
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Maybe from another perspective then...as I said NZ Rugby' aimis to develop the game and tries to limit in the vicinity of 10-20% of all revenue to its All Blacks....some is given back to the S14 + NPC (national Provincial Clubs) and the rest distributed between costs and junior Rugby......I for one wouldn't want to see them drop that stance or the whole foundation caves in...
so a Super14 player not yet an AB is paid by his club.....prolly in the vicinity of UKP30-40K a season.......a newish AB gets a contract from NZRU about 50-80k and a seasoned AB somewhere from 80-120K....Carter would be about the top of the tree and he gets circa 150K..... NZRU runs on a budget of less than UKP30 mill so there ain't a lot of wastage by the time you pay the 30 or so contracted players in the vicinity of UKP 4mill, give the majority of returns on TV licences back to S14 clubs, run the Junior AB's, the Sevens team the Under19's + The Ferns (womens team) who all play at international level,pay the costs involved with all of this and distribute the rest to develop the game (around 10mill).....this year NZRU is looking at a decent loss...IIRC around UK1mill In Europe if I am not wrong the clubs buy the players and release them for internationals??....so the national bodies don't pay out for players....they get them in effect for NIL (however they are at the beck and call of their clubs first and foremost..... I have no idea how NH clubs can generate enough revenue to supply the salaries they are offering their best NH players and the cream of the SH players (it must be in the vicinity of 10-15mill for players for some clubs alone each year) but it's gotta come from somewhere...maybe sponsorship, maybe owners....I don't really know the system there
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....but of course I was verey verey draaank at the taaame!!!
Last edited by nelsonone : 29-05-2008 at 10:48.
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#119
29-05-2008, 11:33
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No team or union in SA can afford to pay R3,500,000 for a player. Victor Matdield has been lured back to the Blue Bulls with the help of an independent sponsor who has made up the difference on his salary. That is one player. I doubt that the Bulls could find enough sponsors to do that for the rest of their team.
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#120
29-05-2008, 11:41
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Half joking, but half serious. In the case of Percy Montgomery the three years he spent in Europe certainly did prolong his career. Most of the players that he played with before his first overseas stint have long since retired. And from a NZ perspective Leon MacDonald springs to mind. His time out in Japan did him no harm what so ever. But I do agree with you Roger with regards to the possible detrimental effect of having too many overseas players.
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#121
29-05-2008, 14:31
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R3.500 000 for one player? God help us when the whole team wants a raise let alone the rest of the Union.We may have a population of 60 million but only about 5-10 million are interested in Rugby or can even afford today's ticket prices.........so the overseas exodus will continue while overseas financial incentives are dangled in front of player's noses. We're not in the football league as far as numbers go....
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#123
30-05-2008, 04:08
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Hope?
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So no support for your country men?
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#124
30-05-2008, 10:25
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that's just filth Brian.....mods!!!!....555 I'll be there tomorow....in my blue Waratah's jacket!...after a round of Golf with some Waratah's mates who are over for the game at Clearwater....just outside of CHCH will take one almighty effort to beat the 'Saders on their home pitch in a final with their long time coach being sent off (to Australia 555) but if Kurtley has his kicking boots on we'll at leats have a good shot at it!   
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....but of course I was verey verey draaank at the taaame!!!
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#125
30-05-2008, 11:47
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Good to see you making up the numbers there Nels. Christchurch has not exactly been filling Jade Stadium up of late, even allowing for the fact that it is a bit of a building site. The turnout for the semi was not at all impressive. But I do believe that there were ticketing problems. Hopefully the weather will be kind, and we will not have a repeat of the 2006 Final played in the mist. I would still rather get up at 4AM on my side and watch an afternoon game…..
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#126
30-05-2008, 19:41
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I am...I'm a Kiwi lving in OZ.....nearly cried when I heard Jerry is retiring, 1st fives around the world are breathing a sigh of releif.
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#127
30-05-2008, 22:11
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That makes it OK then I guess.I agree with your score prediction by the way.
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#128
31-05-2008, 10:45
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Why would they? He's a blind side not an openside, and anyway, he isn't a patch on Juan Smith now or Richard Hill in his hey day. I really think Collins is overrated by bicep size.
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