why here anyhow?

[Mr Floatplane]

The world is definitely a richer place because Thailand, but why do you suppose there such a predominated bar-scene in the country at all?
What social circumstances created it (or conversely, prevented such night-life to develop in our countries)?

Is Thailand more liberated or less? What role does religion and gross national product play in all of this? Your thoughts…..?

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by Mr Floatplane

The world is definitely a richer place because Thailand, but why do you suppose there such a predominated bar-scene in the country at all?
What social circumstances created it (or conversely, prevented such night-life to develop in our countries)?

Is Thailand more liberated or less? What role does religion and gross national product play in all of this? Your thoughts…..?

I think a lot comes down to social security/income support/whatever your country calls it. I.e. In the UK if you have no job, no house and a kid you will be offered free housing + money enough to keep you and your family going. This can lead to then a nation filled with people who have no asperations and are happy enough to just keep getting the free money as long as they have enough for fags, booze and bingo. Imagine if these people did not have that security blanket (as I understand in Thailand there is no form of government support)....Labour costs would plummit as people would no longer say things like "I earn more money in benefits than what I could earn working", and im sure you would find a lot more women deciding that selling their bodies to those who could afford it is a good way to go rather than slaving in a field earning peanuts (or starving with no rain)..

Reading Stickmans site and the likes, an uneducated bg can earn vastly more than someone working in a store and still loads more than the likes of a nurse, with the trait of money=security (which indeed it does these days, no longer is it a world where the strongest/fittest are the big winners/survivors, its those who have the most money who can provide the most).

Rich people in western countries im sure find it just as easy to pick up women its just the goal posts are moved...While 50 quid might be a lot to a poor Thai girl, to western women their expectations and wants are so much more (cost of living is more also), pushing the cash limits outside the reach of the average male into the realms of the truly wealthy...Hell look at Chris Evans and Billie Piper, or Rod Stewart and his totty etc etc...honestly say they would get great looking women if they earned 30K a year? Hell look at Hugh Heffner, 80 years old or something yet he still screws 20 something models with 10 or more in tow every day of the week and lots of women just throw themselves at him hoping to live the easy good life at his mansion....They sure as hell aint there because hes a good listener or entering Mr Universe competitions, its just his wealth as compared to the average person around him.

Aside from money aspects then, I think reputations are also built up over the years thus keeps the cycle going and growing. I think Thailand is just now able to offer comfortable living in certain parts with a low cost, unlike surrounding countries which have low cost but also not very good living.

Sorry for long post, all just IMHO.

[Mr Floatplane]

Interesting reply, I must say I go along with all you wrote. But the money situation cannot be the full story, as many other countries are worse off than Thailand, but do not have a bar scean....
Perhaps as you indicated, it kind of feeds off itself??

[africanw]

Think some part of it was the America army and Vietnam.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by Mr Floatplane

Interesting reply, I must say I go along with all you wrote. But the money situation cannot be the full story, as many other countries are worse off than Thailand, but do not have a bar scean....
Perhaps as you indicated, it kind of feeds off itself??

As I mentioned in my previous post, with the worse off countries, perhaps they dont offer as much modern living as Thailand...Not having been to the areas myself so only going by heresay, Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket etc are way more developed to a standard people from a modern developed world can relate too (not saying Phuket is the same as California, just nowhere like Vietnam, Laos etc), thus offering a happy-medium in low cost and comfortable modern living.

And yes probably the the US military helped it on its way

[Schmeen]

The history of prostitution and before that concubines / mistresses goes way way back in Thai history, the bar scene that caters to Westerners is a very small percentage of what really goes on, Phuket Town is riddled with 'knocking shops' that we would never get in / want to get in, 300B shagging, and no I won't be telling people where, I'm sure some of you know.

The services for the Westerner have increased greatly in recent years, the more sensible / able of the girls realising that we are easy money in comparison, though the real superstars of Thailands P4P game are not on the farang market. The rich Thai guys in bangkok are throwing around 'real' money, but the rules of those games are not so easily understood by us.

Just some comments, I haven't really thought this post through...555..suffice to say it was here long before we were, and to a point is part of the culture but maybe not in the form we see it today (the Thai's remember turn their nose up at the way 'farangs' play)

[LivinLOS]

Erm.. You mean Soi 11 ?? <no shame smily>.. Not as friendly or safe vibe, and a lot of feeling of exploitation rather than the free spirited BG /FL way.. this is one place to take your wallet into the shower and anyone that didnt rubber up here would really be playing russion ruolette with 5 shots in the chambers..

[Schmeen]

Exactly...not the sort of atmospehere I would seek.....there's more, a lot more, several were featured in a documentary on TV about bonded sex labour in Thailand. It was sad, very sad, made even sadder that I'd once been there and partaken (not by choice the going there, and partaken because I felt safer in a room than waiting for the others with the large group of drinking Thai guys) The sex was abandoned out of pity, really a horrible experience. I still feel awful about it now and we are talking 15 years ago.

Your comments sum it up perfectly.

[steven eleven]

Buying sex has been common for Thai males since ages. "Kwai" prostitutes were women who travelled with the "kwai"(=water buffalo) that were/are hired to plow the ground for crops. As you all might know the vast majority of Thailand's population is rural and lives off the land. A poor farmer with no "kwai" of his own had to hire one and while he did so he engages the the services of the "kwai" prostitutes as well. The kwai and the women then travelled on to the next farmer.

During the Vietnam war Thailand became proficient in serving up its women to foreigners. American military personnel flocked to the country for R&R (=Rest and Recreation), which the soldiers soon started calling I&I (=Intoxication & Intercourse).

At the end of the Vietnam war, a business man in Germany picked up the idea and started arranging cheap charter flights to Thailand. As Japan grew prosperous, their males flew in too... I guess the rest of the world followed.
--------------------
The above text are extracts of the book I buyed in LOS: "Patpong Sisters" written by Cleo Odzer.

[steve@thaib]

Only my opinion, but cheap, guilt free sex is a rite of passage for Thai men in my experience. It neccessarily follows that sex is not seen as a dirty deed in Thailand, which it most certainly is in many other countries, my own included.

When you consider that the girls who work the bars or clubs can earn a weeks wages in a couple of hours, it's not hard to see why they would.

I think that the combination of rural poverty, lack of social security, and sex itself seen as a means of recreation rather than a dirty deed, combine to mean Thaiand was ripe for a bar scene.

That it happened there, as very neatly explained in a previous post on this thread, was just an accident of history.

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by steve@thaib

I think that the combination of rural poverty, lack of social security, and sex itself seen as a means of recreation rather than a dirty deed, combine to mean Thaiand was ripe for a bar scene.

The lack of social security and pensions for old people is a ver big factor. But the general lack of a welfare system is, as well. And, in particular, the lack of what is called in the US, AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) whereby if a teenage girl(or woman of any age) has a baby and no husband to support her, then the government will give her money to stay home and raise the children.

Quite frankly, I have always had a hard time deciding if AFDC is a good thing or a bad thing. If you did not have AFDC in America, then prostitution here would be rampant just as it is in LOS. In the 19th century, all major US cities had virtually a wh*rehouse on every block, even in the wealthy neighborhoods. After WWI. prostitution went underground, and was confined to certain red-light districts, usually the black neighborhoods, where the police didn't want to be bothered with it, or they got pay-offs. The new, liberal welfare programs of the 60's brought an end to wh*rehouses in America. Now, except for a few crack addicts, ******s are either Asian immigrants working in massage parlors, or entrepreneurs of all races, who, individually or working for an escort service, advertise quite openly in the newspapers, even running semi-naked pictures of themselves, and are quite expensive. It would be more like LOS, with cheap prostitution, if there was no AFDC, since single mothers with babies to feed would increase the supply of wh*res tenfold or probably much more.

All countries have prostitution. The difference in LOS is because of the culture, and history, they are more accepting of it. And because of that, the lack of welfare payments, and favorable exchange rates, it is very inexpensive.

JayBee

[Schmeen]

Only my opinion, but cheap, guilt free sex is a rite of passage for Thai men in my experience.

There is a saying in the Thai army.

"you've never been anywhere unless you got laid there"

May have something to do with the high HIV rates within the service.

[forewarned]

Thailand is a great place to visit AND has cheap *****s, its the combination but its also a matter of mathematics, for the cost of overnight in london with a top thai girl you can go on holiday to thailand for 2 weeks and have more girls.

see
http://www.orientalangels-london.com...t-Jennifer.htm

[JayBee]

Originally Posted by forewarned

Thailand is a great place to visit AND has cheap *****s, its the combination but its also a matter of mathematics, for the cost of overnight in london with a top thai girl you can go on holiday to thailand for 2 weeks and have more girls.

see
http://www.orientalangels-london.com...t-Jennifer.htm

Interesting website. The girls are all exquisite stunners, cream of the crop! But the money they are getting! Wow! It is easy to see why the Thai girls want to get into the western countries to make that kind of crazy money! There must be an awful lot of ridiculously wealthy men about. Those guys don't have to go to LOS. All they have to do is pick up the phone. Wonder how those girls managed to get into UK. Political asylum????

You certainly could fly to LOS and back to UK, plus cover all expenses for 2 weeks in LOS at those prices. I figured if you only counted the cost of airfare and girls, assuming you had additional funds for hotel, food, and drinks, you could fly to LOS and back and pay for a BG every night for about 6 weeks!! All for the cost of spending one night with an Asian beauty in London!

Stanger still is the fact that, from what I understand, the London prices are bargain rates compared to what you would pay here in the U.S., where the price of an overnight with a high quality girl runs $2700 to $3000, which is about 50% higher than the London prices. Geez, what guys won't do for a pretty little piece of pussy!!!!

At the US prices, I could fly there, spend 6 weeks and cover damn near all expenses, girls included! I love LOS!

JayBee